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Author Topic: Leyland tractors  (Read 426 times)
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2286
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« on: June 12, 2019, 03:10:18 PM »

I know that some forum users have tractors and some of those own Leyland tractors.

I was raised with leyland 272 although I first learned to drive on a ford 4000.

Other leyland I have worked with 262, 255 and 285.  A leyland colours nuffield 384.  The one I wanted the most marshall 804.

My question is this, I am thinking about buying one of my own leyland 154, 253,245 are what I have been considering.

I know the 253 is a 3 pot perkins (3.152) and the 245 is the newer version of a 253 with a 3 pot that I was told is leyland's own?

The perkins has great reputation and spares availability.

The 154 I was told by tractor men was leyland's take on a te20?

I know the big leylands suffer from all or nothing brakes and lift arm problems and tin worm.  I wondered what if anything are known problems to look out for on 253,245 and 154?

Any other makes models to recommend, david brown, international?

I have considered compacts by kubota, iseki, yanmar, shibaura but spares availability and ridiculous prices are off putting.

Need to get into restricted spaces use it for backhoe and front loader. 

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AlexB
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« Reply #1 on: June 12, 2019, 05:11:35 PM »

I am in a similar situation, I'm looking at round about 50 horses and either Ford 3000, 4000, Internation 275 or bigger, one of the smaller leylands (perkins preferred) , maybe a MF 135  and lastly, a DB 885 type.

Chatting to tractor folk round here (not far from Meltham!) gets mixed results, the younger guys go for Ford of MF , citing spares availability. The older ones reckon you can get spares for all of those above.

My criteria is that the engine must have been seen to in the last few years and also a new clutch. I really don't want to have to split something that big.

If you frequest the S2C and Series FB groups, a gent there who goes by the monika of massey ferguson has been trying to sell a leyland for a friend. Might be worth asking if he still has it.
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« Reply #2 on: June 12, 2019, 05:23:14 PM »

Hi

I have just sold my BMC 9/16 mini tractor  which was the original for the leyland 154.

Lovely little tractor but possibly a bit underpowered for your use and has a reputation for being difficult to start and smoky.

Lots of good information on the Leyland and Nuffield tractor club website https://www.thenuffieldandleylandtractorclub.co.uk.  Parts availability getting much better now as well.

MF 135 good tractors but always make plenty of money.  the Industrial MF40 is just as good and often can be bought cheaper. You could also look at the Lewis Badger which has loader and backhoe

Hope some of this info is useful

Regards

Rob
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« Reply #3 on: June 12, 2019, 07:31:27 PM »

Sorry to add to your thread, but as the subject is on tractors
I have just finish a 2 year renovation on a MS 2135. It is over 40 years old, so no rad tax. Do I just insure it and use it or do I have to tell DLV,
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Old Hywel
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« Reply #4 on: June 12, 2019, 07:47:07 PM »

When Leyland stopped using the older 3.8 and 3.4 four cylinders and moved on to the 98 series engines, the numbering changed from 384 and 344 to 270 and 255 (capacity/cylinders to 2wd/hp) somewhere around 1973.
The three cylinder didn’t change much, just the numbering from 253 to 245 .
The 4wd version of the later 272 was naturally known as the 472. Once they turned yellow they became 702 and 704.
The 9/16 Mini mentioned, (9speed/16hp) was powered by a dieselised BMC A Series engine (950?). Once the B Series 1500 was in use it was known as the 154. Eventually the 1800 came along as the 302.
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« Reply #5 on: June 12, 2019, 08:43:22 PM »

Sorry to add to your thread, but as the subject is on tractors
I have just finish a 2 year renovation on a MS 2135. It is over 40 years old, so no rad tax. Do I just insure it and use it or do I have to tell DLV,


I'm not exactly sure how you form the view that over 40 years, so no road tax. Ours are all taxed but at zero rate, i.e. free.

By taxing and insuring the tractor you are effectively telling DVLA that the machine is on the road.


Chris
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« Reply #6 on: June 12, 2019, 10:34:29 PM »

I remember driving a Leyland tractor that had hydraulic steering (not power steering). Something was obviously worn because in the space of 3/4 of a mile on the road I might have turned the steering wheel once or twice clockwise !

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« Reply #7 on: June 12, 2019, 11:46:46 PM »

Has mike's one got a current V5 ? Many old tractors don't and he'd need it to be kosher to drive it on the road ( as above)
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Dormy
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« Reply #8 on: June 13, 2019, 09:02:14 AM »

I remember driving a Leyland tractor for a farm where I worked, I don't recall the model but it wasn't new and this was early 90s. It had hydraulic operated steering (different from power assisted) and the control at the bottom of the steering column must have been worn as when driving on a straight road I must have slowly rotated the steering wheel 2 or 3 full turns clockwise in the space of a mile.  RHD

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Old Hywel
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« Reply #9 on: June 13, 2019, 09:25:05 AM »

When driving on a straight road I must have slowly rotated the steering wheel 2 or 3 full turns clockwise in the space of a mile.  RHD

Dormy

Not unusual with any hydrostatic steering system.
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« Reply #10 on: June 13, 2019, 02:09:05 PM »

Thanks to all.

Yes MF fetch strong money probably due to them being recognisable.  Dexta's and fords too.

David Browns have a lot of specification and them being a gear/gearbox maker should be well up to the task.

Old Hywel I had not clicked that the engine changed at the time when the model names did, as the engine sizes stayed largely the same as they carried over from the nuffields did they not?  I thought it was hp and how many wheel drive.

In the small leylands I have a leaning towrds the perkins power 3 pot, the 154 seems to as you mention be a sluggish starter and parts harder to come by and less commonality?  It also has I am told weird wheel sizes?

I agree you dont want to buying a lot of work, re engine or splitting to fit a clutch.

Industrial spec machines tend as you say to be higher spec but fetch less money than their agri equivalent.  They have heavy front axles as often factory loader fitted.  they can however sometimes lack on the backend, 3 point and pto ommited or blanked.

I have considered thwaites all dig and lewis that followed or is similar.

As far as I was aware agri machines have always enjoyed mot exemption and free tax.

The 302 leyland/marshall mini tractor 1800 you mention is that the dieselised mgb/marina unit as found in the early sherpa?

The early machines appeal as do the Japanese.  Where the older machines win as I said was parts availability and price.  Water pump £40 versus £400

Rob I think the leyland tractor club and spares are located ashbourne area?


I suppose ultimately what I was asking was what are the known problems and weakness of the 253,245.

I think this model has no front chassis and the perkins block is the back bone, so does it crack from flexing like some of the internationals do?
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« Reply #11 on: June 13, 2019, 08:34:08 PM »

All of the older tractors were well made compared to what is offered now, especially the Chinese ones. Nobody has said much about International's. We have always had David Brown's in my family,but there were loads of IH around us when I was growing up because there was a good dealer in the next village. My dear friend and neighbour has a very rough looking,but low hours IH 276. Like our DB's it benefits from a 2 speed PTO,but even better the hydraulic pump runs off the front of the engine.So fully live hydraulics.It was always a pain to start until I found some glow plugs made by Bosch for a Mercedes diesel - Completely transformed cold starting,its now away in 10 seconds with no smoke and minimal cranking.
Both makes are very solid, spares seem OK,if a little expensive...
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« Reply #12 on: June 14, 2019, 12:52:57 PM »

Thanks grouse

Seeing the popularity of the 245 and prices they fetch I have been looking at the smaller DB.  As I mentioned I had the run down at bakewell show years back about the amount and quality of equipment they feature.

The only older IH I have come in to contact with are 414 that a pal had sentenced to a life of log splitting, a 444 that apparently is quite rare (a big engine in a small tractor, I was told) and the 475 which features a perkins engine and is sought after for that reason I am guessing.

Other than that late 70's and 80's with the xl cabs are pin ups.

Re DB do they suffer from casting cracking (not frost damage of block).  Are they liner engines.  What goes wrong and what to watch for?
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« Reply #13 on: June 14, 2019, 02:01:33 PM »

Tractor prices are like house prices in a big city. When the most popular areas get too expensive then the next area a long gets dragged up.

MF 35,36X and 135 have always commanded a premium but it's got to the point the prices can be a bit silly and that has brought the price of Dextas up as people who couldn't afford a Massey started buying them. Fordson Majors can still be bought for sensible money but obviously they are bigger/heavier.

Prices of the Ford models like 2000,3000,4000 are just as bad as Masseys

The IH were are well built tractors and often were ahead of the game. I have a 258 which is an inustrial 584. It's early 80s but has hydraulic PTO and engagement is a simple lever operation. It really makes a difference compared to having to put the clutch down to engage/disengage.

It's amazing what some of these tractors make given the state of them, no different from Series vehicles.

Our neighbours are still running some old Leyland and Marshalls alongside newer stuff.

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Old Hywel
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« Reply #14 on: June 14, 2019, 02:40:50 PM »

International 414 got prettied up to 434, then later into the Q-cabbed 444. All more or less mechanically identical.
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« Reply #15 on: June 15, 2019, 11:11:47 AM »

When leyland started the 'synchro' badging did that just mean that the gear levers went from the centre to one in each hand or was there more to it.

armalites I agree re prices, it seems the ship has sailed as their are folk hoovering up machines at dispersal sales either to scrap, break or sell on to collectors.

The later being the more lucrative two.

Days of dropping on even an old scraper tractor are dwindling unless you have some gold bricks.

Even the highway/industrial spec machines are going daft.

I am considering anything but its must have spares available and be simple and built like a brick out house.

I have seen an MF 130 but this has a 4 cyl engine not the 3cyl of the 35.  Not sure how else it differs.


Old Hywel and armalites

How does the international range naming work, are they in series or hp and cylinders or wheel driven?

I know some were uk built and some of the later bigger 4wd and 6 cyl machine germany.


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