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Author Topic: Are FCs and 101s MoT exempt when registered as V of HI ???  (Read 841 times)

2286

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Does anyone run an fc or 101 that is mot exempt, as reading archive I read that they are 200kg over gross weight and so not mot exempt under the blanket ruling?


Here is the full text.

MOT Exemption post 20 May 2018.

Introduction

The Series 2 Club has been requested to provide advice to members on the declaration of exemption from the requirement for annual MOT testing for “Vehicles of Historic Interest”. The decision to declare your vehicle exempt from the MOT is yours alone, the Club takes no responsibility if our interpretation of the DfT guidelines is incorrect. The following therefore provides the Club’s view on interpretation of the DfT guidance as it specifically relates to our vehicles, provided as a group of volunteers, in good faith and based on our knowledge of the Marque. We note in particular its history of gradual development through evolutionary change and the legendary adaptability of the vehicle which lead to its early and continued in-service modification as owners “improved” their vehicle. We therefore recognise that a major element in the “historical interest” of our vehicles may well be the modifications made to them in 60 years of use.

The first point to note is that despite many of our vehicles becoming eligible for MOT exemption, it remains the driver’s responsibility to ensure their vehicle is roadworthy at all times. Being exempt from testing does not remove this requirement. Regular maintenance and checks are recommended for all road-going vehicles.

The MOT system is a cheap, simple and proven method of obtaining an impartial condition check which may spot issues that even well qualified owners may have missed. The Club would advise that submitting a vehicle for an MOT Test will provide peace of mind to all owners seeking confirmation of their vehicle’s mechanical condition or uncertain of their vehicle’s eligibility due to modifications.

Owners should also recognise that the modifications allowable under this scheme, involving in-service replacement of engines, axles and suspension could, under certain circumstances, result in a vehicle which would fail the strict “8 points” DVLA requirement to retain or reclaim its original identity.

Note also that some vehicles previously MOT exempt on age grounds (Pre 1960) WILL require MOT Testing if they have been “substantially modified” in the last 30 years.

Forward Control Vehicles: Sadly FC vehicles have a gross weight of 3700Kg which takes them 200Kg over the limit and into the “Goods Vehicle” category, needing an MOT.


The Club Advice: If in you are in any Doubt get your vehicle tested.

The following text in Italics is extracted from the Department for Transport Guidance, with our explanatory advice added below in Green text. Text irrelevant to our Landrovers has been deleted. 

The criteria for substantial change

A vehicle will be considered substantially changed if the technical characteristics of the main components have changed in the previous 30 years, unless the changes fall into specific categories. These main components for vehicles......are:

Chassis (replacements of the same pattern as the original are not considered a substantial change).

The Club considers that this allows ‘like for like’ replacement such as reproduction galvanised chassis, repairs and replacement of outriggers, cross-members, movement of engine mounts etc.

Changes to the chassis geometry such as shortening, lengthening, removal of chassis elements or substitution of coil-sprung chassis would NOT meet the criteria and would require MOT Testing. The only exception to this would be where positive proof that the alteration was made over 30 years ago can be provided.

Members will recognise that there is a particular issue with later vehicles with little or no Series 2 content being offered for sale as “Series 2” vehicles. For the avoidance of doubt, the identity of a vehicle remains with its Chassis. No Series 2, 2a or 2b vehicles were produced with chassis fitted with Coil Sprung suspension and very few were altered within the “over 30 years ago” criteria allowed by this scheme. It is highly unlikely that a coil-sprung vehicle can claim to be a “Series 2” or claim MOT exemption.

Axles and running gear – alteration of the type and or method of suspension or steering constitutes a substantial change;

The Club would advise that this excludes the use of coil-sprung chassis. Power steering and disc brake systems would be acceptable under the safety/efficiency criteria listed below. Conversion between LHD & RHD where both relay positions are available is acceptable.   

Engine – alternative cubic capacities of the same basic engine and alternative original equipment engines are not considered a substantial change. If the number of cylinders in an engine is different from the original, it is likely to be, but not necessarily, the case that the current engine is not alternative original equipment.

The Club would consider that any LR engine used during the production run of LR leaf-sprung vehicles or developed from them, such as the Tdi range, would be acceptable together with engines commonly fitted when they were in general use. Engines such as the Perkins Diesel and Ford V6 were also popular modifications during the period when the vehicles were in regular use and would meet the “in general use or 10 years” criteria below.

The following are considered acceptable (not substantial) changes if they fall into these specific categories:

Changes that are made to preserve a vehicle, which in all cases must be when original type parts are no longer reasonably available;

The Club considers “reasonably available” to mean that parts are available commercially and “off the shelf” to an Original Equipment specification. Owners should not feel pressurised to accept sub-standard “pattern” parts or pay exorbitant bespoke production costs if other parts can be utilised.   

Changes of a type, that can be demonstrated to have been made when vehicles of the type were in production or in general use (within ten years of the end of production);

The Club will consider “The Type” to have been in production until the end of S3 (leaf-sprung) production. Reasoning based on the S2/S3 junction being essentially cosmetic with most mechanical parts interchangeable.

In respect of axles and running gear changes made to improve efficiency, safety or environmental performance;

As above, this would include power-steering, dual line/servo, brake drum size increases and disk brake conversions. The Club would advise that any alteration to the original braking or steering system is checked for safety by a suitable competent individual, an MOT Test would meet this requirement.

In respect of vehicles that have been commercial vehicles, changes which can be demonstrated were being made when they were used commercially.

The club would advise that this should involve evidence such as period photography or other written evidence.

This guidance is only intended to determine the testing position of a substantially changed vehicle, not its registration.

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Genem

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Re: Are FCs and 101s MoT exempt when registered as V of HI ???
« Reply #1 on: May 25, 2022, 03:35:53 PM »

As above, FC are over the MOT exemption weight. I suppose it would be possible to "plate" the vehicle, reducing its carrying capacity so that its Gross Weight was at or below the 3500 Kg limit.
A 101 has a Gross Weight of 3651Kg so that same applies.

Personally I think I'd just get the MOT done ?
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DogDave

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Re: Are FCs and 101s MoT exempt when registered as V of HI ???
« Reply #2 on: May 25, 2022, 03:45:19 PM »

Yes strange that it’s a static pre 1960 rule for anything above 3500 kilos

My FC is a fire engine which possibly is except- the guidance is hard to make sense of - but by the time I get that back together MOTs will probably be different again anyway.
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autorover1

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Re: Are FCs and 101s MoT exempt when registered as V of HI ???
« Reply #3 on: May 25, 2022, 06:28:52 PM »

I made up a new weight plate for my 2B FC with a gross of 3500 Kg , pro rata front & rear off the original which only just over the 3500kg  Interestingly at the time it was made it was classed as a dual purpose vehicle as it was under 2 Ton unladed  and was not included in the Ministry of Transport Plating regulations for goods vehicles and that statement was on a plate on the vehicle . Why could they have basically said if it was a class four MoT  it could be exempt rather than putting a weight limit.
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Gritstoner

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Re: Are FCs and 101s MoT exempt when registered as V of HI ???
« Reply #4 on: May 25, 2022, 07:55:17 PM »

My 101 is MOT exempt, it depends on the version and plating.  Mine is a GS, they were originally specified to carry 1 tonne and built to that weight rating on the plate, an empty GS only weighs about 2000kg so gross weight well under 3500kg.

In service they increased the carrying capacity to 1500kg (in consultation with Rover) and were re-plated, or some were, but not all...  Mine never was, and its not unusual for them not to have been re-plated.

Some of the variants were much heavier, ie the ambulances and Vampires.

All depends on the plate.

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autorover1

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Re: Are FCs and 101s MoT exempt when registered as V of HI ???
« Reply #5 on: May 26, 2022, 10:00:30 AM »

I remember when the 3500 kg gross weight limit was coming in ,thinking this is going to be a minefield in relation to Land Rovers as " Duel purpose vehicle" seemed to have been side-lined in new legislation.   Only passenger vehicles and goods vehicles were mentioned .  Dual purpose was a separate classification  in the UK with its own rules but was not recognised in EU speak .
As I understand it, we now have the situation where the heavier Land Rover which originally  could be driven , taxed and tested as a 'car' , now fall into N2 goods vehicles classification  .Presumably a new driver needs a C licence to drive one, which is why I have had the medical  to keep my C1  D1 entitlement now I am over 70 yrs of age.
I may have misunderstood all this & hope I am wrong.
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Moogling

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Re: Are FCs and 101s MoT exempt when registered as V of HI ???
« Reply #6 on: May 26, 2022, 02:34:39 PM »

I had the logbook changed on my FC to 3499kg, back in 2014, and no arguments.  I consulted the DVLA further to ensure they were happy it could be driven on a standard car license and they confirmed it was fine to do so.  Unfortunately I think the copies of those letters went with the FC when it was sold.
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2286

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Re: Are FCs and 101s MoT exempt when registered as V of HI ???
« Reply #7 on: May 28, 2022, 11:19:45 AM »

Preassembly these youngsters that passed their test post 1992 (i think) would need to take enhanced test to drive them legally as the 7.5tonne grandfather rights dropped to 3.5 (unless it has changed again)?
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w3526602

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Re: Are FCs and 101s MoT exempt when registered as V of HI ???
« Reply #8 on: May 29, 2022, 06:59:18 AM »

Hi,

Perhaps the people who might know (and be friendly) would be the historic bus people?

My understanding is that their buses can be MOT EXEMPT, but may not carry fare-paying passengers. As for being able to drive such vehicles on a B+E, I'm ignorant, other than thinking I restricted to 7500kg ... unles wearing L-plates and accompanied by someone who does HOLD the appropriate licence (an expired licence is not sufficient).

Er ... some old Land Rover estates have a sufficient number of seats to affect your insurance premium. (Passenger Liability).

Er again ... what is your legal status if you are caught carrying more passengers than your licence allows?  NO LICENCE = NO INSURANCE.

602
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