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Author Topic: A salutary warning about working under our vehicles ...  (Read 2630 times)

Ian F

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Re: A salutary warning about working under our vehicles ...
« Reply #15 on: June 23, 2022, 01:01:34 PM »

Timber always as extra security when jacking. Breeze blocks, concrete, bricks can always crack and crumble, wood blocks do not.

Ian F
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Wittsend

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Re: A salutary warning about working under our vehicles ...
« Reply #16 on: June 23, 2022, 01:59:12 PM »

I would never advise using bricks/blocks no matter if they were blue engineering bricks - except in a dire emergency.

Unless I was steeling the wheels.

The local bus used to turn round opposite my mothers at the end of our road.
One day the driver crashed into her garden wall and flattened it.
A few days later someone  stole all 4 wheels of an immaculate Audi Quatro which lived opposite - despite the fact it was parked next to their bedroom and their 2 big dogs heard nothing  :thud
In the morning the car was neatly parked on stacks of brick from mum's garden.

A few days later the bus people came and rebuilt her wall.


 :bus
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rosinante

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Re: A salutary warning about working under our vehicles ...
« Reply #17 on: June 23, 2022, 05:01:34 PM »

I have a 4x2 , removing a rear wheel or even jacking one of the ground removes the handbrake locking effect, I carry 3 chocks plus a screw jack plus a thick wooden jack pad , also a bit of 2x1 to jam the brake pedal down , the same caveats apply to a 4x4 in 2wd , but with those the 4wd option can provide a handbrake on two wheels ,all good fun aren't they, 
Chris
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Exile

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Re: A salutary warning about working under our vehicles ...
« Reply #18 on: June 23, 2022, 05:26:27 PM »

I was jacking up the front of a Lightweight.

I had some wood blocks under it.

Jack rolled backwards - and the whole weight of the not very lightweight Lightweight came down on my thumb, crushing it into a gap beteeen the blocks - and trapping me.

The jack handle had rolled away across the floor (WHY ARE JACK HANDLES ROUND?  >:D).

I could hear the bones in my thumb cracking while I streteched desperately to reach the handle, and put the jack upright.

Got it jacked up eventually and released myself.

Two days in hospital as they put 2 metal pins and a screw in my thumb.
And the then wife chose that precise time to ask for a divorce! :shakeinghead

Took six months to get the thumb back working again.

26 years later I still have all the metal in my thumb and a long scar to forcibly remind me to take safety precautions (and not to get married again....)
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g6anz

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Re: A salutary warning about working under our vehicles ...
« Reply #19 on: June 23, 2022, 06:02:42 PM »

In the film 'Ice Cold in Alex' there is a sequence showing rocks shattering under the load of the lorry. They needed to jack the lorry up to change a spring and the jack slipped ,so the weight of it was on the pile of rocks which gradually shattered, until they could get the jack back under it. Moral: don't use rocks/bricks/ or any concrete blocks.
Mine props are or were wood as they fail slowly with a lot of creaking giving some warning. Concrete just shatters with no warning.
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Ian F

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Re: A salutary warning about working under our vehicles ...
« Reply #20 on: June 23, 2022, 07:08:01 PM »

Just an addendum to this debate - please correct me if I am wrong:
The fact that Series LRs have a transmission brake on the rear propshaft can catch you out if you are not fully aware of its limitations. With the transmission brake on AND both back wheels on the ground, the vehicle should not move.
However, if you jack up one back wheel the vehicles other back wheel can rotate via the diff, so the whole vehicle can move.
This must be considered when jacking up a Series LR.

Ian F

P.s. apologies if everyone understands this!

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ChrisJC

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Re: A salutary warning about working under our vehicles ...
« Reply #21 on: June 23, 2022, 07:15:21 PM »

That's a good point, and also true of any beam axled Land Rover (and Range Rover and Discovery)

Chris.
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w3526602

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Re: A salutary warning about working under our vehicles ...
« Reply #22 on: June 24, 2022, 06:45:07 AM »

Hi,

OT, but it might amuse you.

My mate, John the Punk, was silly enough to plunge his hand into a dog fight (GSD v big Lab), and had his thumb bitten off.

Argument at hospital ... docs wanted to knock him out, but John wanted to watch them nail it back on. His "convincing" appearance persuaded them to comply with his wishes. Actually, he was a "pussy cat" ... unless he caught you molesting a child. Children loved him, and their parents slowly came round to the same opinion.

602
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The Shed

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Re: A salutary warning about working under our vehicles ...
« Reply #23 on: June 24, 2022, 07:27:06 PM »

A very sad tale and one of which we should all take heed. As has been said, the jack and jacking points of modern cars are really only just about good enough for a tyre change.
I would advise all to take the belt and braces approach. Do not rely on bricks, blocks or anything else not designed for the job. These are ok for a secondary support but stands on a solid surface are what we need.
One caveat to this would be old tyres, max three high. These can be placed almost anywhere under the car and provided they are placed totally under, the car cannot fall off.
As an aside, the story states that 'a friend who came to remove the car later' found the collapsed axle stand'. Should their have not been some sort of official investigation who would have found said stand ?
That way any Coroners report could include recommendations for their use.
RiP.
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Dormy

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Re: A salutary warning about working under our vehicles ...
« Reply #24 on: June 24, 2022, 10:43:39 PM »

You just can't be too careful.

When rebuilding Dormy some years ago;

I had all the wheels off and was holding the full vehicle weight with 4 axle stands on the chassis. I slid underneath to remove a v.stubborn tow-bar bolt, giving it a good hard heave. When the whole vehicle above me shuddered back and forth I got out, recomposed myself and later used an angle grinder !
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biloxi

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Re: A salutary warning about working under our vehicles ...
« Reply #25 on: June 25, 2022, 03:48:06 AM »

Just an addendum to this debate - please correct me if I am wrong:
The fact that Series LRs have a transmission brake on the rear propshaft can catch you out if you are not fully aware of its limitations. With the transmission brake on AND both back wheels on the ground, the vehicle should not move.
However, if you jack up one back wheel the vehicles other back wheel can rotate via the diff, so the whole vehicle can move.
This must be considered when jacking up a Series LR.

Ian F

P.s. apologies if everyone understands this!

That's why you  should always  shift the red Hi/Lo lever into neutral when jacking up rear wheels. The hand brake then works on both prop shafts, which are locked together, and stop the front wheels from turning.
.W.
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Ian F

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Re: A salutary warning about working under our vehicles ...
« Reply #26 on: June 25, 2022, 07:35:47 AM »

Thanks for that Biloxi, that's something I didn't know.

Ian F
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Clifford Pope

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Re: A salutary warning about working under our vehicles ...
« Reply #27 on: June 25, 2022, 08:13:07 AM »

The hand brake then works on both prop shafts, which are locked together, and stop the front wheels from turning.


That's not quite true. Nothing acting through the differential is ever "locked together". It still has limited movement owing to the free play between the splines, the crown and pinion, and the differential planet gears.

There are designs of handbrake that operate directly on the brake drums at the wheels which still do not "lock" the wheels, if the shoes are of the free-floating kind. My Volvo for example can still rock backwards and forwards a few inches even though the handbrake might be fully on - you can hear the shoes making a "clacking" noise as they rock between the end-stops.

I have always maintained that even the sturdiest axle stand is not fully secure. They can tilt, and they have a point at which they can fall over. They are secure unless jacking the vehicle at another point puts a sideways force at that point. That sideways force can come from wind-up of play in a differential, or from a trolley jack, which by design does not lift precisely vertically.

In my view even trolley jacks and axle stands are not fully safe, simply good up to a (somewhat vague) point.
Railway sleepers are about as safe as an ordinary person can achieve, or as a simple precaution, a spare wheel.


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Ian F

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Re: A salutary warning about working under our vehicles ...
« Reply #28 on: June 25, 2022, 08:30:04 AM »

Thanks Clifford. The handbrake on my Volvo 945 behaves just like that.  I have a large stock of wood blocks, including several sleeper sized pieces, as well as 3 sets of axle stands.
On trolley jacks - you do have to be very careful as the jack approaches full height - they have a pronounced sideways movement which can easily topple axle stands on the other end of the vehicle.

Ian F
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Neil Bymouth

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Re: A salutary warning about working under our vehicles ...
« Reply #29 on: June 28, 2022, 09:17:14 AM »

A 72 year old man from Gosport Hampshire was changing the wheels on his motorhome last October when one of the scissor jacks gave way while he was underneath it. The vehicle landeion his head. He got himself free and was rushed to hospital where he wasn't expected to survive the serious injuries. He was in intensive care until December and eventually recovered.
Obviously no axle stands were used. He was very lucky.
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