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Author Topic: The banning of coal and wet wood for domestic heating ...  (Read 28236 times)

Grandadrob

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The banning of coal and wet wood for domestic heating ...
« Reply #75 on: February 24, 2020, 04:50:55 PM »

Ah, bark !
All that fuss, my neighbour has an oil fired Aga, which stinks in our garden all year.. >: >:D
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1955 86inch petrol.
1960 88inch Diesel.
2013 FFRR SDV8 4.4

Genem

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Re: The banning of coal and wet wood for domestic heating ...
« Reply #76 on: February 24, 2020, 06:27:31 PM »

Nothing surprises me any more when I have just read that Tesco have started selling "ethnically diverse" coloured plasters.  :stars.
 Ho hum.

We've had blue plasters in Scotland to cater for the typical skin colour for ages. #snow&sleet

….and hey, why not. they made "pink" ones to match skin-tone, why not have a range. 
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I'm not totally daft, some bits are missing

Scotty38

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Re: The banning of coal and wet wood for domestic heating ...
« Reply #77 on: February 24, 2020, 07:02:06 PM »

On a side-shoot, how about those heat-powered fans that can sit on the stove. We recently got one and I'm pretty sure its improving life, by pushing more warm air out into the room. The far end of the room certainly seems warmer.

Works a treat here, the void above the stove and closure plate get way too hot to touch without the fan. I can feel the warm air blowing out when it’s running too so I wouldn’t be without one. I did buy a “decent” one that cost me about £80 but they can be had for a lot less.
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Wittsend's Little Helper....

Dentman

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Re: The banning of coal and wet wood for domestic heating ...
« Reply #78 on: February 24, 2020, 10:29:45 PM »

Dob dob dob .... did you miss the bit about bark ???


 :timber
Where DO you fetch these emojis from!  :first
I'm no expert, (only 6 common trees for a second class Scout :shakeinghead) but I recognise Silver Birch from the papery white bark used to start our paperless fires
First a curl of Birch bark as dry as dry can be...
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Wittsend

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Re: The banning of coal and wet wood for domestic heating ...
« Reply #79 on: February 24, 2020, 10:38:29 PM »

I was barking up the wrong tree ... recognise 6 common tree  :first

I would hope everyone would get Silver Birch and as posted - the papery bark is great for starting a fire.

... and I guess you ain't going to find much Elm about after the Dutch Elm disease wipe-out.


We have the best collection of smileys anywhere   :cool
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linesrg

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Re: The banning of coal and wet wood for domestic heating ...
« Reply #80 on: February 25, 2020, 06:53:44 AM »

Ha! Supposing it HAS to be 'kiln dried" think of the heat / energy and infrastructure required to do that, so much for saving energy / pollution etc... a bit like the electric vehicles thing, the generated power still has to come from somewhere.. :shakeinghead
Some people are determined to ignore certain facts. Yes the electricity has to come from somewhere but the overall efficiency of generating the electricity to charge the EV is still a way more efficient process than burning hydrocarbons directly in an ICE.

Regards

Richard 
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GlenAnderson

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Re: The banning of coal and wet wood for domestic heating ...
« Reply #81 on: February 25, 2020, 08:05:18 AM »

Some people are determined to ignore certain facts. Yes the electricity has to come from somewhere but the overall efficiency of generating the electricity to charge the EV is still a way more efficient process than burning hydrocarbons directly in an ICE.

Regards

Richard


Indeed.

The oft quoted “where will all the electricity come from?”. One of the biggest current consumers of electricity is the refining and distribution of fuel. If we’re not using the petrol and diesel, we won’t be using the electricity to refine it.
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Porkscratching

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Re: The banning of coal and wet wood for domestic heating ...
« Reply #82 on: February 25, 2020, 08:42:06 AM »

Every single car in the world runs on electric then...that's a huge ammount of electricity and an enormous unwieldy infrastructure ....and everyone clamouring for a socket..  Good luck with that:-X
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agg221

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Re: The banning of coal and wet wood for domestic heating ...
« Reply #83 on: February 25, 2020, 08:51:26 AM »

Some comment on a few things on this thread (I have just come back from Colombia where I presented in the biomass conversion session of the BERSTIC 2020 renewable energy conference).

Firstly, why burning wet wood is 'bad'. The problem is that it takes a lot of energy to boil off the water and it can't burn hotter until the water has gone. This is exactly the same as boiling a kettle - energy is going in continuously to produce steam at a fixed temperature. The total energy produced is no lower, however you do have less radiant heat and more goes up the chimney in the steam. The real problem, in a domestic setting, is that the lower temperature of the smoke/steam means less of a temperature gradient so the fire draws less well and, more significantly, being colder to start with it is more likely that the smoke will cool enough in the chimney for the tars to drop out onto the chimney wall, sooting up the chimney and ultimately resulting in a chimney fire. Coincidentally, this is exactly the same issue as happens when people fit log burners into fireplaces without adding a double-walled, insulated liner. The tar can also seep through brickwork and if ignited can very slowly smoulder right through, leading to house fires, particularly if the other side of the brickwork the chimney passes through thatch - this is the root cause of a lot of the fires in thatched houses in the early 2000s with the rise in popularity of log burners.

Secondly, whilst using woodchip imported from Canada and the southern states is not as energy efficient as using home-grown would be, we would need to properly re-start the forestry industry. That is an enormous challenge for many reasons. The chip is at least dry, not wet. Do not get the idea this is like some tree surgeon chucking it  through his chipper and the next day it is at the power plant! Wood dries to 20% moisture content at about 1" thickness every 6 months, however that is when water is only being lost across the grain. Losing water through the end grain is a lot quicker and wood chip can be dried in tumblers on mesh using the waste heat from the power station so tends to be very dry.

Yes, carbon capture and storage results in the only release being water, however the carbon dioxide is still produced, just stuck down old oil wells. It is not very energy efficient to do this. I haven't run a project on this for some years but from memory I think it takes 20-30% of the energy produced to compress and pump the CO2.

Many renewable sources are weather dependent and the cycle does not match well with demand - inconveniently people tend to want the lights on when it is dark, and solar panels are not working... If you have surplus electricity at certain times, e.g. at night, to make use of it you need storage which is expensive. Conveniently, if lots of people buy electric cars and charge them at night then you don't have to install as much storage, since your customers will still take the electricity.

There is no one simple solution. Wood and other hydrocarbon based fuels will remain part of the mix for a long time to come, both for transport and domestic heating. Gas is not going anywhere soon.

Alec

Oh and Alan - you would be amazed at the number of surviving elms around here, which is rather nice. I am running trial on disease resistance in native strains at the moment http://www.futuretrees.org/files/uploads/Future-Trees-Trust-Where-we-are-with-elm-December-2019.pdf
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Bradley66

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Re: The banning of coal and wet wood for domestic heating ...
« Reply #84 on: February 25, 2020, 12:45:33 PM »

Every single car in the world runs on electric then...that's a huge ammount of electricity and an enormous unwieldy infrastructure ....and everyone clamouring for a socket..  Good luck with that:-X

And the world wide oil infrastructure is perfect ?
You can generate electricity anywhere with the right equipment , no more dependence on a few oil producing countries . Imagine the almighty punch up that will occur when oil does eventually run short .
Bring it on , I cant wait for electric cars to become more mainstream . The earth will still spin , the sun will still shine and it will still rain . But we will still be transporting ourselves around in little boxes on wheels .

Back on topic , why would you burn wet wood if you had a  choice ?
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oilstain

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Re: The banning of coal and wet wood for domestic heating ...
« Reply #85 on: February 25, 2020, 04:19:28 PM »


Back on topic , why would you burn wet wood if you had a  choice ?
I think people do as its often cheap or free, so they will keep doing it as hard to police :shakeinghead
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Grandadrob

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Re: The banning of coal and wet wood for domestic heating ...
« Reply #86 on: February 25, 2020, 04:53:03 PM »

And will ships still be using dirty lumpy fuel oil whilst we are preening ourselves in our electric matchboxes. Sometimes the pursuit of that perfect green world is seen through very rose tinted glasses. I would love to still be around in 25 years time, to listen to the latest excuse for climate change, after we have ruined our way of life.
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oilstain

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Re: The banning of coal and wet wood for domestic heating ...
« Reply #87 on: February 25, 2020, 05:44:42 PM »

And will ships still be using dirty lumpy fuel oil whilst we are preening ourselves in our electric matchboxes. Sometimes the pursuit of that perfect green world is seen through very rose tinted glasses. I would love to still be around in 25 years time, to listen to the latest excuse for climate change, after we have ruined our way of life.
WELL SAID THAT MAN :tiphat
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Wittsend

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Re: The banning of coal and wet wood for domestic heating ...
« Reply #88 on: February 25, 2020, 05:47:25 PM »

 :ditto

Throw another log on the fire  :log fire
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Porkscratching

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Re: The banning of coal and wet wood for domestic heating ...
« Reply #89 on: February 25, 2020, 05:48:00 PM »

Amazes me how so many have been "sold the dummy" on this whole thing, when it's so clearly just driven by highly prejudiced political agendas, period.
To the degree where you're actually welcoming more and more bs rules, laws and edicts..so,  they're taking away your freedom of choice, movement etc etc, taxing you for the privelege and have the nerve to tell you they're doing you a favour.. seriously !!
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