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Author Topic: 602's Freelander  (Read 4460 times)

w3526602

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602's Freelander
« on: September 14, 2020, 06:36:12 AM »

Hi,

I'll try to keep this subject to a minimum, but would be grateful for "new dad" information. I haven't the faintest idea what I've bought.  :-[

OK, it's a silver £2.000 Freelander on a 54 plate, 5-speed manual, RHD. Five door. It only has one gear lever (and a hill descent button) I found a piece of paper in the bundle of "history", which suggested it's a TD4 ... whatever that is? The fuel gauge read "half" ... it took £50 of diesel. Rear tyres look OK, but fronts seem a bit "unloved" tho' still legal. I'd like to replace them fairly soon. Towbar, No nasty "niffs". Brand new MOT. It seems an honest motor. Towing capacity is 750/2000kg. There seems to be plenty of room in the back seats for the next two generations of off-spring.(one daughter and her two ginormous late teenagers.

Questions! I understand that it is full-time 4x4. Does that mean it will look after itself in snow, or will the centre differential stop me if just one wheel starts to slip? I assume not ... but why not? Does the Hill-start button lock the centre diff?

Can anybody suggest a friendly forum for Freelanders? Maybe I should try DIFFLOCK.COM again? Guestimate of fuel consumption?

602
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diffwhine

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602's Freelander
« Reply #1 on: September 14, 2020, 07:07:26 AM »

Yes - it is full time 4x4 with only high ratio. In reality, its a front wheel drive with a torque split to the rear axle through an IRD (I think from memory that's Intermediate Reduction Drive). Transfer box to you and I, but because its a transverse engine arrangement, and does a slightly modified function, presumably its named differently.
The drive system relies on ABS and therefore traction control to stop wheels spinning and is very effective. I ran one in Bosnia for several winters and if it can cope with that, it can cope with anything the UK can throw at you. Traction control utilises the ABS system to control wheel spin and therefore manage drive across differentials. Its all automatic - no need for driver input.
Hill decent control or HDC is a function which controls off road descent using the ABS and traction control to manage braking on steep descents. Again its very effective, but only works under certain conditions - the primary one being that if you touch the brakes, it will disengage...! That can be a bit scary of you forget and panic.
You appear to have a TD4 Manual Freelander. That's fitted with the BMW M47 Engine. The Range Rover L322 was fitted with a 3 litre 6 cylinder version of this engine and a lot of parts cross over in both engines.
I've just looked on the LR website and there doesn't seem to be an owner's manual for this car listed which seems strange. They are out there and readily available on line though. I have a PDF version which comes with RAVE (the old Rover digital technical information system). You might find one of those CDs on line. If not, PM me and I'll see if I can spare one and send it to you.
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w3526602

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602's Freelander
« Reply #2 on: September 14, 2020, 07:28:38 AM »

Hi Diffwhine,

Thanks for that.

I'm think you are saying that the 4WD is controlled electronically (electrically). It's probably best if I let it get on with it, and not interfere. But does that mean the rear wheel are not driving if they are not needed? Probably best if I'm left in happy ignorance.

OT ... when I was in Sharjah, 1960, I wrote to Jaguar, saying that there "wasn't much to do in the desert" and I'd like to improve myself ... and did they have any literature that would explain how an automatic gearbox worked?

By return of post I received a workshop manual for a Borg Warner auto gearbox  (apparently retailing at £20 .. then ... plus airmail). Very interesting reading.

Reminds me of the two con-men, discussing what they would do about the begging letters, if they won the big one on LOTTO. They decided that, in such an event, they would keep sending the letters.

602
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Alan Drover

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602's Freelander
« Reply #3 on: September 14, 2020, 07:33:09 AM »

The weak point on Freelanders is the intermediary reduction drive which I believe fails in the lock up position. Some owners remove the rear propshaft and use front wheel drive only. It's replaceable by a competent home mechanic but it's a fiddly job.
I think the front/rear drive is done by a viscous coupling in the IRD. It senses when drive is needed to the rear and locks accordingly.
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Bradfordseries2

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602's Freelander
« Reply #4 on: September 14, 2020, 08:08:49 AM »

The Freelander 1 is permanent 4WD. There is no centre diff or transfer box. The drive to the rear is taken from the OS of the Getrag 5 speed box (td4 only) by the IRD. This is just there to provide a ever-so-slightly geared down output to the rear prop. The rear prop has a temperamental viscous coupling in it to act as the centre diff to prevent tyre skip during cornering. The viscous coupling can be tested by jacking one rear wheel off the ground with the handbrake off (taking precautions to prevent the vehicle rolling away) and trying to turn the wheel off the ground. It takes a little effort but you should be able to rotate the wheel. If it spins freely the rear prop has been removed! Which is fairly common as the viscous coupling generally isn’t financially viable to replace now the Freelander is getting to the cheaper end of the market.

The tyres are beat replaced in vehicle sets to avoid any overslip of the viscous coupling, or unwanted tyre skip during car park manoeuvring.

The td4 engine is generally good, when I was in the dealerships when they were current vehicles the injectors were replaced quite regularly as was the clutch and flywheel if used as a ‘shopping trolley’. They have quite a weak clutch for a 4WD vehicle and don’t like being slipped while at a standstill, bad driving practice anyway.

The window regulator mechanisms are quite weak, if one fails get a genuine replacement, the aftermarket ones are not up to the job and fail quite quickly.

The sunroof cables also break, when they snap it can make the motor gear skip on the cable rack, which quickly wrecks the motor.

One important thing to mention, the BMW td4 engine has a breather filter, which Land Rover called the cyclone filter. This lives in the top of the rocker cover. It is essential that this is replaced at regular intervals, if using the filter type set up every 12 months at average miles. There was an aftermarket replacement involving fitting the filter BMW used, which didn’t require replacement and was fitted for life. I don’t think they were expensive either, makes a worthwhile upgrade. If the filter is blocked through not being replaced it pressurises the crankcase, leading to turbo failure, blowing the dipstick out and dropping oil everywhere or running away on its own oil.
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Gibbo103

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« Reply #5 on: September 14, 2020, 08:22:18 AM »

John, Dorinda has been running freelander since 2002 so I have plenty of experience of them. As others have said, the weak point can be the VCU which is in the centre of the split propshafts. Tyres should be replaced as sets of four because they need to be of the same rolling radius otherwise the vcu will get hot and become damaged ( perhaps not too much of an issue if you are only doing short journeys). I would be happy to come round and check it over for you. Dave
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Old Hywel

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602's Freelander
« Reply #6 on: September 14, 2020, 08:38:17 AM »

Not sure of the later arrangements, but as mentioned above, the earlier models can be viewed as front wd with rear assist. Because of this arrangement the system assumes that the front wheels will be turning faster than the rear.
Should new tyres be fitted at the front, reducing turns per mile, the drivetrain locks up because it thinks there must be wheel spin. That’s where the trouble starts. Simply avoided by fitting new tyres at the REAR.
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Gibbo103

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602's Freelander
« Reply #7 on: September 14, 2020, 10:03:55 AM »

Not so sure about just fitting new to rear. The vcu is turning all of the time so will still detect a difference.
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diffwhine

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602's Freelander
« Reply #8 on: September 14, 2020, 12:45:15 PM »

The ratios between the front and rear diffs are slightly different. This means that the drivetrain is effectively always "wound up". On early Freelanders it was more pronounced and therefore IRD and VCU premature failure was more likely. I think it was changed slightly in the early 2000s to reduce the windup and therefore reduce uneven tyre wear. If you remove the rear prop, the transformation is amazing. They drive really well as front wheel drive cars and the steering feels much lighter and easier.
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w3526602

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602's Freelander
« Reply #9 on: September 14, 2020, 08:57:24 PM »

The ratios between the front and rear diffs are slightly different.

Hi Diffwhine,

I have read that traction off-road can be improved by having different ratios between the axles. I can't remember if it was related to sand, mud, or ice, or all three.

Our Bedford RL trucks could cruise on soft desert sand, in top gear and only two wheel drive ... if you dropped the pressure from 70 to 20. The RLs came with an engine driven tyre pump.

602
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mistericeman

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602's Freelander
« Reply #10 on: September 15, 2020, 10:41:23 AM »

The ratios between the front and rear diffs are slightly different. This means that the drivetrain is effectively always "wound up". On early Freelanders it was more pronounced and therefore IRD and VCU premature failure was more likely. I think it was changed slightly in the early 2000s to reduce the windup and therefore reduce uneven tyre wear. If you remove the rear prop, the transformation is amazing. They drive really well as front wheel drive cars and the steering feels much lighter and easier.

Remember to inform your insurance company if you do
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w3526602

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« Reply #11 on: September 15, 2020, 05:28:20 PM »

Hi Mistericeman,

Thanks for that ... I was wondering if the rear prop could be removed. I suspect it would improve both tyre wear and fuel consumption.

My insurers are LV, and I don't think they like modifications. Did LR make a 4x2 version, and is in in a different insurance group.

But is it worth it. We've been with only one car since I sold the Jimny ... Barbara's Daihatsu Ix20, now approaching 30 months old, and also approaching 3,000 miles.

FWHs? But which axle? And is there "any sich naminal"?

I like the Freelander more than I thought I would. Would I want to take it cross-country .. like on a club outing?

602
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mistericeman

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« Reply #12 on: September 15, 2020, 05:47:28 PM »

Yep a lot of folks do it... And I suspect a lot don't bother saying anything BUT...

If its insured as a standard freelander.... Removing a prop makes it heavily modded to some insurers.

The Freelander was actually very capable off road (especially with decent tyres on)

It went through a heap of intensive testing when it was envisaged....
And frankly needed to be able to hold its own.


https://youtu.be/MyHOhdhkXWw
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Genem

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602's Freelander
« Reply #13 on: September 15, 2020, 08:17:15 PM »


I like the Freelander more than I thought I would. Would I want to take it cross-country .. like on a club outing?

602

Apart from a lower ground clearance than a "normal" landrover they are actually quite agile off-road. I did burn out whatever the fancy name for the clutch is on ours though, trying to extract a trailer from mud. The rear windows leaked. Apart from that it was a decent enough vehicle.
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w3526602

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602's Freelander
« Reply #14 on: September 16, 2020, 05:00:12 AM »

Hi again,

Do I need to buy tyres in packs of four (or five)? The rears are good, but fronts are nearly down to the "bars"... they  seem to have worn evenly. I haven't uncovered the spare yet.

At some point we are going to have to see if Barbara can climb into it. She is still unable to exit the house. Her ICA  seems to be nearer £70 than the expected £40 ??? It seems sensible not to rock the boat.  :whistle

602
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