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[stuart]

it can become a big mess , its just a shame for the buyers who lose out , i gave some one the bad news that his 1964 2a was a defender , he is not car savy , it has still got the defender vin on it , under the bonnet and series one screwed to the bulk head , he was lucky as he was able to get his money back ,

but its a mine field , as as they get worth more its more if a target to commit crimes

[ChrisJC]

Or you go the European route and require the vehicle be as-built. No modifications. Our generous rules are open to pee-taking. On the continent it simply cannot be done. I'd rather have that than have to pay tax on a vehicle I only use every so often. 

That's incredibly selfish!  There are vast numbers of people who take great pleasure from 'personalising' their vehicle. It is theirs, they may do as they please, within the law. Most of them are not to my taste, but I would not deny them that pleasure.

Chris.

[22900013A]

That's incredibly selfish!  There are vast numbers of people who take great pleasure from 'personalising' their vehicle. It is theirs, they may do as they please, within the law. Most of them are not to my taste, but I would not deny them that pleasure.

Chris.

I think you slightly missed my point...

Given the choice of everyone paying tax, or going on a more strict rules system, I would choose the latter. *You* are the one advocating for the abolition of tax and mot exemption, which would undoubtedly see a lot fewer old vehicles on the road for us to enjoy.
I'm not advocating for any kind of changes to the rules.

[AlexB]

The european route drives slightly differnt behaviour - 2 vehicles, I set of plates
One official road use
One for meetings / rallies / fun

At least in France

allegedly

[Genem]

Relatively local to me there is a Trials vehicle for sale, being described as a 2a, MOT and Tax exempt. Its a recent build, on coils, modelled on a Tomcat type vehicle. No way does it qualify as Historic, probably fails the identity points system too but as the owner has declared it to be "historic" it need never ever see the inside of an official place of inspection ever again. Unless its involved in a fatal accident or some similar catastrophe I suspect it will sail on into the sunset. Mechanically it looks as if a very good piece of work from the photographs.

I did once try to report an obvious "4 screw restoration", Defender being passed off as a S2A. Ebay were utterly disinterested, DVLA the same. I even tried the Police local to the seller - they seemed unable to understand the issue and their final word was that unless the computer showed it up as untaxed or uninsured while on the road they were not going to take any action.

We can get as wound up as we like, its small beer to the Authorities, who have neither the time nor the personnel to actually enforce the regulations they have created. We have a mass of such unenforceable legislation, which relies on the law-abiding being self-policing while the lawless just carry on regardless. 

[dartymoor]

Thanks for the thoughtful replies on this, even though they're somewhat depressing in confirming that abusing this system appears to carry little consequence. That does save me some time in continuing to find an authority who is bothered about tax evasion (Still a surprising concept to me - maybe Al Capone would have remained uncaptured if he'd self-declared a Series 2?)

I wonder what will happen in such a vehicle is involved in a newsworthy fatal accident? I suspect there will be some knee-jerk reaction from politicians aghast to learn that some vehicles don't require annual safety testing, possibly resulting in a tightening or removing of this useful benefit.

[oddjob]

I'd imagine that if any MOT exempt vehicle was involved in such an accident (modified or completely original) it would have consequences for the policy.
In 4 years you can have a MOT exempt Ford Sierra Cosworth 

[Wittsend]

When fraudulent, tax evading vehicles are "found" in road-side checks and other investigations - they are crushed.

You have to put these "crimes" on a scale of what society and the authorities consider the most serious.
Vehicle tax evasion and driving offences come quite low down on this list.

I you don't like this you can lobby your political representatives (we have elections coming up soon) and write to the authorities (DVLA & HMG Customs & Excise).

I gather HMG Customs & Excise do have an reporting mechanism - how effective it is, I don't know.   

What I do know is that the (fatal or serious) accident rate for Vehicles of Historic Interest are much lower than the general pool of vehicles on the road. And this is not just because they do fewer miles. The owners of VofHI tend to look after and cherish their vehicles (MoT'd or not).
It is for this very reason that government decided to drop the MoT requirement for VofHI and offer tax exemption.
There are fewer than 1 million VofHI (cars, tractors, bikes, buses, vans & lorries) and not all are on the road, compared to an overall vehicle population of, say, 40 million.

As Series 2 Land Rovers move under the classic car umbrella fewer are used as daily drivers and the costs move them out of the reach of younger impoverished drivers.

The cheaters need reporting, but it is not the role of this club to police, report or record these "crimes".
Apart from anything else we don't have the resources.

[Sunny Jim]

i gave some one the bad news that his 1964 2a was a defender , he is not car savy , it has still got the defender vin on it , under the bonnet and series one screwed to the bulk head

It would be interesting to know if the vehicle was officially reported and whether the Defender was actually legitimate apart from the identity fraud - it would be a shame if a good vehicle was destroyed as a result! Did it come from a dealer rather than a private seller?

The important lesson is to 'arm yourself with knowledge' (if you remember the old Hammer Drakula films) or take someone else.

I am sure everyone on here wants to do their best to ensure our forum users don't get caught out!

Sunny Jim

[chughes5]

You can report them online via the dvla 'report an untaxed vehicle' page. Just put 'the internet' for the address and a link to the eBay page in the 'other comments' section. I did it for a v5 once. I asked them a few questions and got a response a week or so later saying yes, it's fine to report them this way.

As someone else said, I think they mark the record on their db so it can't be re-registered

[w3526602]

And there I was expecting a discussion on "campanology"!

Hi Alan,

OT, but if you are interested in such things ... my first job was with Gillett @ Johnson (bell founders), in Croydon, and I was involved in dropping the original bells (250kg?) down from the tower in Addington Parish Church.

And then there was the joke about Quasimodo (Hunchback of Notre Dame), lying in the church yard.

"I don't know who he was ... his face didn't ring a bell!"   Send a PM, and I tell you the full joke.

602

[andrewR]

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/254983784948?hash=item3b5e37c9f4:g:SngAAOSwvcpgo8kZ

Looks to me like a 1970s or 1980s vehicle (in its entirety), being sold with a 1958 S2 identity.

[Worf]

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/254983784948?hash=item3b5e37c9f4:g:SngAAOSwvcpgo8kZ

Looks to me like a 1970s or 1980s vehicle (in its entirety), being sold with a 1958 S2 identity.

Says it has original chassis. Just a bitsa 

[ChrisJC]

I can't see a single Series II feature on it!

Chris.

[Ndrwdz]

I've messaged the seller and asked for the Chassis or VIN number.
See what turns up