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[w3526602]

Hi,

Barbara was checking on our local amenity site. She found that Land Rovers are excluded. The sketch, showing an example of what they were talking about, did not look like a boxy Series nor a Defender.

I done a quick Google, asking a very broad question, and got the following answer ...

https://en.powys.gov.uk/article/7595/Land-Rover-Defenders-need-permit-to-visit-recycling-centres

Some thoughts ...

LAND ROVER, includes Freelanders, Discoveries, and Range Rovers.

4WD vehicles are dual purpose, the same as estate cars. Of the two, which make the greatest number of trips to the tip.

There was no mention of Mitsubishi Shoguns (OK ... they are four seater pick-ups, usually with a fenestrated hard-top over the "tub". It's been a long time since I've seen one.

Vehicles that are HISTORIC EXEMPT from VED and MOT ... but are not allowed to be used commercially.

Come the Winter, when it snows, the Health Authorities will be begging 4x4 drivers to help the nurses get to work.

And then they complain about fly tipping.

Joe Public have long memories. I can remember Tony Blair suggesting that people in Wales (Civil Servants?) did not need a normal size pension, coz houses cost less in Wales. I used to be a floating voter.

How can you tell if a vehicle is being used commercially? Just ask to see his insurance.

602

HIPPO, who specialised in canvas skips, have gone into the big skip business. Barbara has ordered me a 6 yard ship ... £232.

[autorover1]

According to that Powys CC link , Series Land Rovers, as they are not Defenders , should be OK , but I bet you would have to argue the point.  Hereford & Worcester  use the similar CVT system and I take my 86" Station wagon in without issue. I also have the permits to take my trailer  if needed.  The trouble is that Land Rover type approved all the later Defenders  whether  they be station wagons or truck cabs etc as N1  ( Goods Vehicles)  Discoveries ,Range Rovers etc  were mostly M1 ( passenger Vehicles)  . Earlier versions were a mixture of M1, M2 and N1 . In the officials mind eye they are being all classified as N1, good vehicles, just to make it easy for them. 

[DogDave]

Sad to see such ineptitude from councils but hardly surprising. Others will probably follow. Our tip “saves money” by employing four times the number of staff it used to in case anyone tries to recycle rubble without paying £2 a bag.

I did enquire if I could take a 109 ambulance last time at ours and was told that’s fine as it’s not a commercial as has windows in the back, will test it out when I have time to spare.

[w3526602]

Hi,

Thanks for the above comments.

Legally (I can find the Appeal Court case if anybody is interested), according to DVLA publications, four wheel drive vehicles, and estate cars, are not restricted to the Goods Vehicles speed limits. In 1964, I was clocked at 80mph, in an 850cc Minivan, on the A1. This was before the blanket 70mph limit was introduced. I pleaded not guilty, as I had fitted seats in the back, which according HMR&C made it a car. The Clerk of the Court dived into his legal books, and agreed that was correct according to the Finance Act .... but the Road Traffic Act required BOTH windows and seats. Fined £2, and an apology for the endorsement. As I had already paid the Purchase Tax (£26), i fitted windows too.

When I met Barbara, she was working for Customs, assessing goods for Purchase Tax. I gave her a mouthful of abuse. She called up my case, didn't like what the Assessor had said about my van (I'd asked him to value it low, as the tax was payable on it's value. She took unjustified revenge by admonishing about another matter.

Actually, Barbara is a sweetie ... a young (17) lad had passed his test on a Honda 50 ... and got a full MOPED entitlement. He complained that his moped had been uprated. She asked him to prove his case, which he was able to do. He got his full bike licence by the next post.

602

[Wittsend]

The problem you/we have visiting council recycling centres - tips to us - is that each council applies its own rules and definitions 

It matters not how the vehicle in question is taxed or the result of any past court case(s).
Local councils are a law unto themselves and they can exclude who/what they like and make charges and limits to the amounts tipped.

There are no national guidelines 

The result of all this nonsense is a steady increase in fly tipping.
Unfortunately councillors and their executive officers are not intelligent enough to make the link between tipping restrictions and increasing cases of fly tipping, when the rest of the population clearly can 

Perhaps one solution would be to fly tip on the councillors and officers driveways.

On the other hand we keep voting these muppets into office.....

 
 

[gvo416j R.I.P.]

If it were not the present muppets in office it would be the opposition party's muppets.

All over the country in all parties we seem to have a plague of politicians, both local and national, who are basically activists for their own particular causes and who have little or no common sense or clue how things actually work.

This, combined with the modern style of management where every decision, no matter how simple, is passed to the highest level for action where it is made by people with an agenda and no knowledge or understanding of the problem is not a good way to operate. Thus you get these absurdities at grass root level.

Big business is little if any better. They do maintain tighter control of the purse strings overall than councils/government but they still come out with expensive totally stupid decisions from higher management for problems which if allowed could have been solved at gang foreman level at a cost of peanuts.

[Wittsend]

Sadly I have to agree with you.

We, the people, are poorly served by our elected officials no matter their political persuasion.
Very rarely you get a decent person but they are swimming against the tide of incompetence.


 

[Genem]

Note that the unelected Council Officers who actually write the rules do not change, are effectively bomb-proof too, if sacked its generally done under the guise of early retirement etc.  These are the people who write the briefing papers, provide the data and the alternatives which the Councillors then get to debate and agree on. Its rare that Turkeys ever vote for Christmas so anyone expecting suggestions from unelected Council Officers to be radical is optimistic...It would be great if the elected Councillors were bright enough to dig a bit deeper, ask the hard questions but generally they do not.  I'm not sure what Councillors get in the way of remuneration down south but up here its a supposedly part-time job attracting a whopping £16k a year plus expenses, a bit more for Committee chairs etc. Either way, not a salary that is likely to attract the brightest and best...?

The latest wheeze here - suggested by the Council Officers of course - is that "to aid efficiency" all calls, even from Councillors, have to go through a central enquiries unit who "make sure your call is directed to the right person" and get a reply for you. It means you can never speak to the person actually responsible for the issue and also that all messages are filtered and interpreted by the "enquiries" team. The loss of nuance, the potential for misunderstanding.... but not having to speak to the end-use of the "service" must make the "officers" jobs a lot easier.

Don't get me started on over-centralisation.... 

[w3526602]

Hi Allan,

Some years ago, a disgruntled voter dumped his rubbish  (a lot) on the Town Hall steps.

The solution to fly-tipping is easy. Maybe I should present the 602 solution to my Councillor?

602

[The Shed]

Not Landrover related, but reminded me of an incident some years back.
I was working for a clinical waste removal company, owned by the daughter of Geoffrey Robinson MP, a very nice chap it has to be said.
Anyway, I used the van to empty a house we had been renting. On arrival at the tip the guy on the gate refused us entry as they could not accept clinical waste.
I explained this was household waste and clinical was yellow bags. But no. I would have to see his boss.
I went into the very nice office, explained what had been said. His response - ' Jobs worth him isn't he' ! Tell him I said it ok.