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[Genem]

But to mangle a vehicle's identity.....

I can see the attraction to the off-road/trials folk of a coil sprung lightweight bodied vehicle but why not leave it on the "donor" vehicles ID, leave it as the 80s/90s vintage Defender 90 that DVLA will say it is - they are worth strong money in their own right now.  Is it all about saving a few bob on MOT/Tax - at risk of losing the lot if DVLA get involved ?     

[Peter Holden]

This is a partial answer to why bother

I have had dealings with someone who has had S2s and 3s for many many years who started suffering with health problems that meant travelling in a leafsprung land rover too painful so he built himself one on a coil sprung chassis

It began to unravel when for some reason it went for an MOT when he had finished it.  The tester couldnt find a chassis number and so reported it.  The information filtered through the system to DVLA who investigated and demanded an inspection passing it on to their kits and rebuilds department. The chassis does not meet their criteria of a like for like swap and the suspension has changed from leafs to coils (dont ask about the engine or autobox) so to register it it must have an IVA which it will not pass.

The owner, a land rover owner for years now has sunk thousands of £s into a vehicle that cannot be registered as it will never pass an IVA

Peter

[andrewR]

Is it this abomination per chance
https://www.gumtree.com/p/other-cars/land-rover-/1417055592

Engine size : 350  cc     

[Wittsend]

Yes, that's just a typo = 3500cc

The vast majority of these "conversion" are done as tax dodgers 

There is an argument for making the ultimate trailer or competition machine which will never go near a public road.

As for the "better ride because of my back", I don't buy that either. The chap may well have a bad back but a well sorted 109 rides quite well considering.
The better ride for the back would be a Range Rover or newer Disco with air bag suspension.

Or, if the back is that bad you go for a Volvo something which a friend's consultant said were good for bad backs


It's a shame more of these chancers don't get pulled up.

The bigger "shame" is on the mugs who buy this stuff without doing their home work 

But there you go, gives us something to post about.

In 10 years time the problem will go away....

[Larry S.]

Living here in the States I always find the discussions about the DVLA and MOT rather interesting.  For the most part, and each State is different, we don't have to jump through as many hoops as all y'all do.  I bought Grover from a person in another State and had him shipped to me.  Because it came from out of State it had to be inspected; they verified the chassis number (that's a whole 'nother story), made sure the headlights, brake lights and blinkers worked and made sure the brakes worked - that was all.

Seeings how vehicles tend to be inspected quite extensively over there, how was the chassis issue not discovered at some point along the way BEFORE the guy bought it?  Wouldn't it of needed to pass a MOT inspection at some point while the seller owned it and the chassis of raised a red flag?  Or can the MOT people pick-n-choose what they think is an issue?

As to a 'hurting back' I get it.  SWMBO has back issues when riding in rough conditions; with that in mind I switched Grover from leaf springs to parabolics, she hasn't had an issue since.

As to the "...why go through all that effort, at that point, just buy a 90/110..." - fully agree.  I have a good friend who really, really wants an old Series Rover, preferably an early IIa or older.  Then he tells me what it 'must have' - such things as AC, stereo, and so on.  I don't remember everything that was on his list, but it was ridiculous.  I told him "why bother, just buy a Defender or Disco".  He said "why? can't I just add all of that?".  I told him he could add some of those items, but it will cost a lot and ruin the rig.  In a round about way he admitted he wants all the creature comforts of of a modern rig, but wants the 'look' and 'coolness' aspects of an original.

[GHOBHW]

the issue with MOT testing is a human is doing the job, so an amount of money handed over is the difference between an issue and no issue.
if the frame isnt rotting away under the vehicle, its unlikely the MOT man would care enough to report or deal with it.

a series to me is a series, as it left the factory, if it isnt bolt or and bolt off, i want nothing to do with it. obviously some arent like that and i dont fault them for it, but its a bit of a shame when a good vehicle gets messed around with and in all truths, a 90/110 isnt far off from what the series was, all things considered, all modern cons are there for you already.

[Larry S.]

the issue with MOT testing is a human is doing the job, so an amount of money handed over is the difference between an issue and no issue.
if the frame isnt rotting away under the vehicle, its unlikely the MOT man would care enough to report or deal with it.

a series to me is a series, as it left the factory, if it isnt bolt or and bolt off, i want nothing to do with it. obviously some arent like that and i dont fault them for it, but its a bit of a shame when a good vehicle gets messed around with and in all truths, a 90/110 isnt far off from what the series was, all things considered, all modern cons are there for you already.

You make it sound as if some bribery might be taking place!      

I agree with you in re "...a series to me is a series...".  So far, other than safety upgrades within the electrical system, the only 'upgrades' I've done are the parabolic and deluxe seats - that's it.  I have been considering some sort of USB port for charging a phone, but if that happens it will be installed in a hidden spot. 

[Wittsend]

There are a few DVLA/VOSA MoT official testing stations around the country - these are not commercial garages they don't sell or repair anything, just do tests on behalf of the government.

A large proportion of car owners go to a local "independent" garage for their test, often on the back of an annual service.
If they service the car properly and replace worn parts, the vehicle should in theory pass the test 

The MoT testing stations are NOT paid to "administer" the DVLA laws and rules. The test is purely about roadworthiness.
The MoT testers are not experts on the Series 2/2A marque.
And who knows what skulduggery may go on.

So if a coil sprung Series 2 (or Series 1) turns up for a test all things being equal it will get a pass.
The MoT tester will check the vehicle reg with the online computer and if it matches up he continues with the test.
They may check the chassis number plate in the cab, but rarely, if ever do they go looking at the front dumb iron.
I've never seen them check any of mine.

 

[Larry S.]

There are a few DVLA/VOSA MoT official testing stations around the country - these are not commercial garages they don't sell or repair anything, just do tests on behalf of the government.

A large proportion of car owners go to a local "independent" garage for their test, often on the back of an annual service.
If they service the car properly and replace worn parts, the vehicle should in theory pass the test 

The MoT testing stations are NOT paid to "administer" the DVLA laws and rules. The test is purely about roadworthiness.
The MoT testers are not experts on the Series 2/2A marque.
And who knows what skulduggery may go on.

So if a coil sprung Series 2 (or Series 1) turns up for a test all things being equal it will get a pass.
The MoT tester will check the vehicle reg with the online computer and if it matches up he continues with the test.
They may check the chassis number plate in the cab, but rarely, if ever do they go looking at the front dumb iron.
I've never seen them check any of mine.

 

Okay... this answers so many questions I've wondered about!  Thanks!  Here in the States, at least in my area, if a vehicle is to be inspected it has to go to an authorized location and a law enforcement officer signs off on the paperwork.  When Grover was inspected it was a Sheriff's officer who did it.

Here in the States lift kits are a big deal on 4x4s and trucks.  These lift kits can go anywhere from 2" to more than 18" (small ladders are installedto help get in and out).  IIRC anything over 18" is no longer considered 'road worthy'.  I actually watched a truck (that was raised way above 18") make a turn in extremely high winds - it was blown over onto its side.  Closed a major highway intersection for hours!!! 

Are lift kits allowed over there?  How are they handled?

[Exile]

Motto of this story:

Come to the allegedly "narrow-minded, *&%^$ nit-picking, rivet-counting Series Two Club forum"  BEFORE you buy a SII/IIA Land Rover.

[Genem]

Seeings how vehicles tend to be inspected quite extensively over there, how was the chassis issue not discovered at some point along the way BEFORE the guy bought it?  Wouldn't it of needed to pass a MOT inspection at some point while the seller owned it and the chassis of raised a red flag?  Or can the MOT people pick-n-choose what they think is an issue?

Ah, its a roadworthiness test, not a test of originality. The chassis will be inspected for rust, a modern monocoque car will fail for rust within 30cm of a body mounting, seatbelt mount etc. The inspector will not know that in 1984 "Landrovers" swapped from leafs to coils and "check its got the right suspension for its year" is not part of the test.. They may know that after X date Y lighting is required, that sort of thing. Some may need reminding.  They will pick up on bodywork where its dangerous, bits poking out - bonnet mounted "mascots" likely to damage the pedestrian who just threw themselves onto your "hood".  "Dodgy" MOTs - yes, they happen but I don't think they are that common. They have some leeway on writing up an issue as an "advisory" or a complete fail. A decent examiner will "advise" borderline faults, some of the chain garages have a name for looking for faults.... "Discs and Pads" on a modern car, especially if its driven in by a female.   The Testers Manual is available online, gives a very clear walkthrough of what the examiner is looking for and what will fail.  In terms of what we have been discussing, Part 0, Identification of the vehicle... https://www.gov.uk/guidance/mot-inspection-manual-for-private-passenger-and-light-commercial-vehicles     

[Genem]

For interest, here is an extract from the MOT manual. It confirms that NONE of our vehicles require a "VIN" number and that only one legible number is required on the rest. For MOT purposes then, a stamped up bulkhead plate should be all that is required ?  Note too that nowhere does the manual ask the Tester to confirm that what they are looking at is "correct" for the production year noted on the documents.

You must check the vehicle is displaying a legible vehicle identification number.

A vehicle identification number (VIN or chassis number) is required on:

kit cars and amateur built vehicles first used on or after 1 September 2001
all other vehicles first used on or after 1 August 1980
Vehicles may have the VIN displayed in more than one location, but only one VIN is required to be complete and legible.



 

[w3526602]

Hi,

Designa Chassis have been around for a long time.

How long ago must a "kit car" have been built to be acceptable?

Some kit manufacturers offered an SVA option ... I think JAGO had type approval for their GEEP ... ( a replica of the WW2 4x4 that gave G1s seriously sore bottoms. Thousands of  drivers were invalid out of the army. Google JEEP DRIVERS BOTTOM.)  I remember reading in Kit Car magazine, probably 40 years ago about how they crash tested the GEEP seat belt mounts.

602

[Bronze Green]

Motto of this story:

Come to the allegedly "narrow-minded, *&%^$ nit-picking, rivet-counting Series Two Club forum"  BEFORE you buy a SII/IIA Land Rover.

And for Series Ones, the “Ultra” narrow minded, *#”:*#% nit picking, rivet counting Series One forum before you buy a Series One, obviously said with tongue firmly in cheek. However, when selling my very original 1948 model year 80in some 10 years ago one guy who came to view it couldn’t get past the fact that I had fitted a Boyer Bransden electronic control module the size of a large match box which made it start and run much better. He made such an issue of it that I wouldn’t have sold it to him even if he had offered more than the advertised price.

[Wittsend]

Good for you ^^^ 

Some people just don't know what they are looking at.

99% of the time we are considered rivet counting b****s and fun spoilers - until the day some poor soul gets lumbered with one of these ^^^.

 
We don't make the rules ...