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[Kernowcam]

When I found some e5 near bridge water, the e10 pumps had e10 marker discs on the handle and e5 on pump body stickers . Not helpful.

[Genem]

You can, of course, easily just remove the ethanol. Add water, wait a bit, drain the water+ethanol.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b9mLbuUSt-0


( video suggested by Manxcat).

I understand you can drink ethanol...

 

[Worf]

Have you tried one of the several octane boosters

From Halfords et al.


 :petrol_pump

Not yet, as I have been using Esso super in the garden equipment. It goes against the grain to pay for something you need to add to "get rid" of another something that you didnt want in the first place.

I realise you can use water to remove the ethanol, but that also removes all the other "octane boosting" additives, so you would then need to buy a octane booster.

[Wittsend]

Some sums are needed ... 

If you remove all the E10 from a litre of petrol you're left with 900 mls of petrol.
That means for every 10 litres of E10 fuel you buy you are only going to have 9 litres of petrol.
Or put another way, you are paying 10% extra on every litre of E10 you put in the tank.

It must be cheaper to add an additive to the E10, have the full 10 litres of fuel in the tank and with an octane booster you will get a mile or 2 more per gallon

 

[oilstain]

Some sums are needed ... 

If you remove all the E10 from a litre of petrol you're left with 900 mls of petrol.
That means for every 10 litres of E10 fuel you buy you are only going to have 9 litres of petrol.
Or put another way, you are paying 10% extra on every litre of E10 you put in the tank.

It must be cheaper to add an additive to the E10, have the full 10 litres of fuel in the tank and with an octane booster you will get a mile or 2 more per gallon

 

But does the  additive remove the ethenol, otherwise whats the point

Whilst the you tube video was very clear I'm concerned that storage and processing of the E10 poses a fire risk at home bearing in mind that over last and next weekend I would need about 16 gallons of E10 free fuel

[Worf]

But does the  additive remove the ethenol, otherwise whats the point

Whilst the you tube video was very clear I'm concerned that storage and processing of the E10 poses a fire risk at home bearing in mind that over last and next weekend I would need about 16 gallons of E10 free fuel

No additives actually remove the ethanol (despite what some companies may claim). They just neutralise some of its damaging properties. How well do particular additives do this? I'm sure there are test results somewhere. FBHVC ??

It is also a fact that you get less MPG from E10 than E5. In what way is that environmentally friendly 

[Wittsend]

E10 fuel in no way is "environmentally" friendly.

It's all a sick con and don't let anyone tell you otherwise, as they say:- follow the money.

For starters, think where and how the ethanol comes from.


 :petrol_pump

[Birdsnet55]

Just had an email from the RAC about this.

 

HERE


Paul

[Wittsend]

Have you tried one of the several octane boosters

From Halfords et al.


 :petrol_pump

Summary:
Change and make sure your fuel lines, seals etc. are E10 compliant.
This in all cases will be a change of the base material to one that is impervious to the effects of ethyl alcohol.

Run your engine, a good tune-up would be in order.

And whilst the fuel additives I've been talking about won't remove the ethanol as such they go a long way to "preserving" the fuel and preventing the volatile components evaporating, leading to "stale" fuel.

I don't see the problem for Series owners - check your rubbers.
Plenty of owners are running on E5 and E10 fuels.
Why not try a shot of an octane/fuel preservative and see how it goes
You have nothing to lose, except 5 or 6 £s.
If it doesn't work for you, go to Plan B.

[Genem]

It strikes me there is some utter nonsense in that RAC article - and all the Govt Hoo-ha too - particularly the bits about reducing CO2 emissions. I doubt that the change reduces the amount of CO2 produced per litre used at all - what it does do is reduce the amount of "fossil fuel" used, so the CO2 is coming from "short cycle" plant based sources rather than "incredibly long cycle" oil.

It still puts CO2 into the air, probably in exactly the same amount, is the combustion chemistry any different ?  The questions then are about the whatever plant based material is being used to make the ethanol and what it would be used for otherwise. Growing corn to make fuel rather than food ? What would be the decomposition product of the plant based material - how much CO2 would it have produced if left to rot, been fed to people/animals etc. Fermenting otherwise "waste" product that would rot anyway is perhaps an excuse - but planting crops just to make fuel helps not one jot.

We still need to use less fuel - of any sort - in order to actually reduce CO2 emissions ?  The real "renewables" are electric power from wind and wave, solar etc. Hydrogen created using renewables too perhaps. Moving away from transport  then perhaps lots more timber used in construction rather than mass concrete, would lock up C02 for centuries rather than creating lots to make cement...               

[Bradley66]

Apart from rubber, Ethanol also eats  carb floats and fibreglass fuel tanks.

You can buy carb floats from Burlen that are not affected by Ethanol.

[Clifford Pope]

Have you tried one of the several octane boosters

From Halfords et al.

A few questions;
1) Surely what's needed is something to counteract the harmful effects of ethanol. What's that got to do with boosting octane?

2) Why does E10 disolve pipes and plastic petrol tanks but E5, which still contains ethanol, does not?

Is it just that components merely dissolve more slowly in E5 (but still faster than old 4*) ?
It seems odd that there should be a critical level of ethanol , somewhere in between E5 and E10.

Where does the ethanol come from? Again, why is some ethanol OK but some bad?

[Worf]

A few questions;
1) Surely what's needed is something to counteract the harmful effects of ethanol. What's that got to do with boosting octane?

2) Why does E10 disolve pipes and plastic petrol tanks but E5, which still contains ethanol, does not?

Is it just that components merely dissolve more slowly in E5 (but still faster than old 4*) ?
It seems odd that there should be a critical level of ethanol , somewhere in between E5 and E10.

Where does the ethanol come from? Again, why is some ethanol OK but some bad?

Octane boosters are needed if you remove the ethanol using the "water" method as stated ^^^ as that also strips them at the same time.

You are correct E5 is not as bad as E10, but it is still disastrous on some small engines (garden machinery, outboards etc)

Ethanol is obtained from growing crops, sometimes at the expense of using them (or the land) for food, so as far as I am concerned they are all bad. If it wasn't for gov subsidies (here and elsewhere) nobody would probably produce it.

[Genem]

I had a quick scout about for some figures, many of the references are almost 10 years old, but I did find this UK Govt report which says 66% of "renewable" fuel comes from waste - but the majority of that is bio-diesel made from used cooking oil. Ethanol made in the UK is primarily from wheat, the largest import source is Peruvian sugar cane (!). Our largest supplier (in 2019) was actually China.  An interesting read I think ?

 
https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/823788/Renewable_Fuel_Statistics_2019_First_Provisional_Report.pdf

[Worf]

I had a quick scout about for some figures, many of the references are almost 10 years old, but I did find this UK Govt report which says 66% of "renewable" fuel comes from waste - but the majority of that is bio-diesel made from used cooking oil. Ethanol made in the UK is primarily from wheat, the largest import source is Peruvian sugar cane (!). Our largest supplier (in 2019) was actually China.  An interesting read I think ?

 
https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/823788/Renewable_Fuel_Statistics_2019_First_Provisional_Report.pdf

Interesting. I also read that ethanol is also made by "the hydration of ethene".  Ethene is a by product from petrol production, and apparently you use phosphoric acid to convert it into ethanol 

Sounds really "green" doesn't it. We are all being taken for a tata (Not Tata!).