Print

[whitehillbilly64]

Good morning.
Are the front Gal bumpers the same over the whole series range.
S1's through to late S3's ?
Thanks.

whitehillbilly

[Tom]

Series 2s and 3s are the same, series ones were different,

I think they had a strengthening diamond over the starter handle hole, and some were shallower in depth than s2/3 items.

[oilstain]

And not all S1's are the same

[whitehillbilly64]

Thanks.
How did the S1's differ.
Would a later one still fit ?

whitehillbilly

[oilstain]

Very early S1 had the fishtail on the chassis not on the bumper so would not fit, 80/86/88" S1 had small differences in details and they were thiner than S11/111 so I doubt if they could be made to fit and look right
Sereies 11/111 are about 1" thicker than S1's - just measured some of mine

[Peter Holden]

S1 bumpers have the mounting plates welded to the outside of the bumper instead od being part of it.  The aye also slightly shorter as a S1 is narrower

I used to have a S2 bumper on an 80, it fitted OK but made the front look heavy.  The attached photo (very old) shows my current land rover with its PO and it is a S1 bumper mounted on top of a S2 bumper, it shows the difference in size.

Peter

[Peter Holden]

Can someone turn the photo round please, it shows the right way up in my photo gallery.

Peter

[Formerlyjeremy]

the very early S1 bumpers won't fit - some were welded to the chassis - then fishplates were welded to the chassis and the bumper bolts between them.  later ones have brackets welded to the bumper which fit over the chassis and will fit BUT they are 1 1/2 in narrower across the vehicle.  There are some minor style differences.

S2 bumpers are deeper and original ones very heavy.  They all look similar - but later 2a and 3 have 3 holes in the top to take the number plate mount for vehicles with lights in the wing.  After-market ones may be slightly lighter metal.

[34058]

Series One bumpers are 3" high and 60" wide.  Series Two bumpers are 4" high and 64" wide.
There are a number of different ways they attach to the chassis.

David.

[whitehillbilly64]

Thanks.
Reason for asking, I am very lucky to have a mate who works in the scrap metal industry.
He rang to say he had a perfect S2/3 bumper. Cost me a 4 pkt of Wild Turkey and coke.  (10 quid.)
Picked up. Wash and will look like new. But think I need a Bumper for my 52 S1 When the Qld border (Aus) opens and I can cross to pick it up.
Grabbed 3, Series gearboxes, few months ago. Happy and lucky he knows series bits.
As leaving he says, found you a complete 2/S3 I will pick it up and you can have a look, and see what it is. Was used years ago by local Rescue Squad. Probably still runs !!!!
Might cost me a 6 pkt 

whitehillbilly

[Rory]

A Series 2 bumper will fit on a 109 Series One.

[gcc130]

It might fit, but it won’t look right.

[gvo416j R.I.P.]

The chassis at the bumper mounting bolts [chassis depth and bolt spacing] are identical from 1954 model S1s [86"/107"] right through to 1984 [88"/109"/127"]. The only exceptions I know about may be the stage 1 V8 LWB models. Later model 80" S1 also used the same dimensions as the 1954/56 models but I am not up on those really early models.

There are multiple differences in the various bumpers over the years, with the major one being the change in length and depth for the advent of the S2, but most will interchange with only minor mods. but as said ^^^^ "it won't look right"

ORIGINAL 86/107" bumpers do not fit 88/109" landrovers [S1 or S2/3]. The 86/107" chassis front pieces [where the bumper mounts] are stuck out forward of the front spring hanger whereas on all later 88/109" chassis [S1 or S2/3 ] the bumper bolts are between the metal side plates of the spring hanger.

This meant that the later S1 bumpers [and all aftermarket stuff] had less wide bottom mounting plates so that they could be slid between the the side plates of the spring hanger. This is also true of all S2/3 bumpers.

I have only ever seen a single variant of the genuine S1 bumper [apart from the change mentioned above] but there were a plethora of differing S2/3 bumpers supplied on new vehicles with many variations of drilled holes prior to Galvanising. As far as I know the genuine replacement bumpers [except military] only ever came with the holes for the 4 mounting bolts, plus the pair of holes for the number plate bracket on ones made after that became a factory fit option when the headlights moved into the wings.

[whitehillbilly64]

Thanks for the replies.
Very interesting.

whitehillbilly

[w3526602]

Hi,

I agree that S2 bumpers are deeper than S1s, but disagree about them looking wrong, if fitted in that format. In fact, to my eyes, the S1 bumper looks flimsy. But hey, each to his own!

Somebody once said "A good horse is never a bad colour!". Tell that to somebody with a "chestnut mare". I believe Suffolk Punches are spelled "chesnut", maybe to differentiate between their personalities,  but I'm happy to be corrected.

My first FULL rebuild of an S1, used a Marsland S3 chassis. (I had previously rebuilt  an S1 using a "not new" chassis, that had been modified to accept a V8, and I had to reverse the process. This may have been before the Points System was introduced ... so early 1970s. I tend to stick to the regulations, if at all possible).  Er ... does anybody produce a badge depicting a "yellow liver"?

If anybody can find MY picture of my first FULL, new chassis, rebuild, (FEU254) still in it's Bare Metal ducco, (there may be a copy on this forums files), they can form there own opinions on whether an S2/3 bumper looks wrong on a 88" S1, on an S3 chassis.

If they look carefully, they may also be able to see how my home-brewed bulkhead does not have "feet". I simply  extended the A-posts down, and everything lined up perfectly for me to drill through and poke the long 5/8" dia bolts through both the extended 50x50x3mm SHS, and the holes in the wider S3 out-riggers.  The S1 tub holes lined up pefectly. It could almost have been designed to be done this way.

Apart from the bulk-head, almost everything from an 88" S1 bolted straight onto the new S3 chassis. I even fitted an aluminium radiator panel, which I assume originated on an early 80". All three bolt holes lined up. (Memory fails, but I think my first rebuild (with a 2nd-hand chassis) used a Rover 2000 X-flow radiator, and the second rebuild used the tiny radiator from a Ford Escort 1.3. (It only boiled when I let the water level drop too far). That included pulling my 30ft cabin cruiser with in-board Ford 1100cc engine and Zenith(?) "out-drive", on a magnificent trailer, probably 3 ton train weight, at 50mph on the M4. The police car overtook me without comment.

I fitted a BMC 2.2 diesel into my Austin Champ ... just about adequate. There might be a picture on the forum files. It was cheaper to run than Barbara's Hillman Imp.

The Champ front bumper was almost as flimsy as a civilian car bumper, and mine was bent. So I undid the four (5/16"?) bolts that screwed into the front face of the chassis rails, and replaced it with a 5ft length of "girder" ... I'm guessing 5" x 2.5" C-section. To my eyes, it looked "right". I did consider mounting a 6" vice on it, but managed to control myself.

I'll get my coat!

602

PS. The above mentioned pictures are on my PHOTOBUCKET site ... with which I am struggling, although I have just received a nice Email (on Barbara's Kindle) from somebody at PB, who is offering to help.

PPS. Er ... If somebody produced C-shaped brackets that bolted onto the front of Series dumb-irons, it would make it easy for our "artistic" members to design and cobble their own bumpers.  (I'm already wearing my coat!)

PPPS. I have always thought that there was room for a tool-box between the bumper and the front X-member, slung low between the dumb-irons.