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Main Section => Welcome to our virtual Pub Meeting ... => Topic started by: Worf on September 18, 2019, 04:59:32 PM
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This looks a bit more like it is going to be what JLR should have gone for.
Cant wait!
Projekt Grenadier (https://www.ineos.com/businesses/ineos-automotive/projektgrenadier/)
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I like what they have to say... Never seen much in terms of actual designs though
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And to be built in the Uk apparently (Bridgend). What are the chain drives for on the test bed clip on the page header? Cant pause it to get a better look.
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Wow, I got a big full screen safety warning when I clicked on that link?! Not seen that before.
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The design objectives and the solutions being described in the video do make this sound very appealing (and an awful lot like a Defender).
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Wow, I got a big full screen safety warning when I clicked on that link?! Not seen that before.
Hmmm
Tried different URL links and it's not good...
Doesn't bode well if they can't get their website into gear :shakeinghead
Much as I don't like it (Top Gear, the BBC, the license tax, etc.), here is news of the Projekt Grenadier (https://www.topgear.com/car-news/insider/hurrah-grenadier-4x4-could-save-ford-employees-jobs)
Let's hope they make an electric option.
:RHD
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https://youtu.be/CgeN_L74et8
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It will be built around the corner from me ( 1/2 hr walk ) must get the binoculars out :zoom
Inneos are building next to the Bridgend Ford site and are hailing the cross over of skills from the Ford production system .....
Conveniently next door ( a few hundred yards ) is the Brocastle old peoples home ( mainly dementure inmates ) so when the employees get
clapped out / go ga ga with production line boredom they won't have far to go .... where is that tongue in cheek emoticon when you need it :bright-idea
Seriously though it will be good to see it eventually get into production and some local jobs is a bonus, good luck to all concerned !
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Don’t forget the Chinese Restaurant and golf course across the road. Every facility imaginable.
Only a few miles away is the new Aston Martin plant.
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Thank you Alan! :tiphat
If the Ford place is closing why build a new place? Over here Tesla bought the old GM-Toyota place in Fremont.
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There'll be some fiddle on a new build - no taxes, government grants etc.
:cool
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The link was working fine, but seems to be down now. JLR spoiling tactics ??? ;)
EDIT; They seem to have moved to a new website https://ineosgrenadier.com/ (https://ineosgrenadier.com/)
Taken a screenshot from their "header" video. Testbed to check out the gearbox ???
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Thank you Alan! :tiphat
If the Ford place is closing why build a new place? Over here Tesla bought the old GM-Toyota place in Fremont.
If the Ford plant was building a different type of vehicle, it might well cost more to modify the existing plant to suits the needs of the Granadier than to build a new plant to suit.
It sounds like a very interesting project anyway. I'm too stingy to buy a brand new car, but this concept at least sounds like something I might buy if for some reason I had shed loads of cash - unlike the new Defender.
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First new vehicle in years that I am genuinely interested in. Auto only gearbox a bit disappointing though.
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Some interesting stuff beginning to come from Ineos now.
https://ineosgrenadier.com/reveal/frame-axles?utm_source=Salesforce&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=january-edm&userId=/Xdrbm0WfGS05hFgf0wwkPM2pyYt6bBC&lastname=+hn/CoWNoWsZQxk7HDvoAg==&country=blank&utm_source=Salesforce&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=january-edm (https://ineosgrenadier.com/reveal/frame-axles?utm_source=Salesforce&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=january-edm&userId=/Xdrbm0WfGS05hFgf0wwkPM2pyYt6bBC&lastname=+hn/CoWNoWsZQxk7HDvoAg==&country=blank&utm_source=Salesforce&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=january-edm)
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Nice to see the forum interest in Grenadier. I've been working on the project as a consultant for some time now. Afraid I can't comment on the actual product at this point, but it will be good...! The good thing is that an awful lot of really good former LR people (as well as many other manufacturers have had input into this, so have a good idea of the pitfalls and lessons learned from past issues!
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The line used in the you tube videos 'Function over form' appeal's to me. Lots! :RHD
My day job doesn't need 'function over form', an hours commute crawling through Bristol traffic says function is an automatic eurobox with good sound insulation, and my Passatt does that well. An electric one if I had somewhere to charge it would be better.
So why is it I'm excited for the launch of this? I already want one. For the odd weekend green lane camping trip? To chuck the canoe on it for weekends on the river? My 1969 IIa SW does that perfectly well enough. And I like having an old vehicle. But maybe the thought of lighter steering, syncromesh and relative silence is what appeals.
Maybe. But maybe I'll just let someone else suffer the initial depreciation.
But I do wonder if there is a demand outside of us lot for a 'function over form' vehicle that can be repaired in the field and 'hosed inside and out'. I want one (and already have one made in 1969) but does the greater general public / utilities, NCO's / military want one in sufficient volume to make it viable when there are loads of pick ups that fill this sector? I'm not sure. But I still like it.
Paul
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There's a world market out there.
IF they can get the price right.....
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Strange to find myself living in a hotspot of 4WD motor manufacture, with the Grenadier in one direction and Aston Martin in the other. They’re about ten miles apart.
A new AM 4x4 rumbled through the village today.
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Good Evening All,
I note somebody commenting on the vehicle only being available as an auto box. Stirring the stick around in a 'modern' Defender with a six speed box is preferable to an autobox??
It makes for far more relaxing driving and a modern box should be more efficient than those of old - I really don't understand people resisting auto boxes.
Regards
Richard
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Good Evening All,
I note somebody commenting on the vehicle only being available as an auto box. Stirring the stick around in a 'modern' Defender with a six speed box is preferable to an autobox??
It makes for far more relaxing driving and a modern box should be more efficient than those of old - I really don't understand people resisting auto boxes.
Regards
Richard
+1 :cheers
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Bit more news today. You need to take screen shots if you want to see any detail. Blink and you miss it.
Anyone in Austria got any shots of prototypes?
https://ineosgrenadier.com/reveal (https://ineosgrenadier.com/reveal)
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Some interesting stuff from Ineos today.
No electronics :-*
https://ineosgrenadier.com/reveal/suspension?utm_source=Salesforce&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=april-edm&utm_source=&utm_medium=&utm_campaign=&utm_source=Salesforce&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=april-edm&utm_source=&utm_medium=&utm_campaign= (https://ineosgrenadier.com/reveal/suspension?utm_source=Salesforce&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=april-edm&utm_source=&utm_medium=&utm_campaign=&utm_source=Salesforce&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=april-edm&utm_source=&utm_medium=&utm_campaign=)
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Some interesting stuff from Ineos today.
No electronics :-*
In the context though, I heard it as only no electronics in the suspension. Which does not mean there will not be electronics elsewhere. That said, a friend struggling with the cost of repairing the suspension of Disco 3, no electronics in the suspension sounds a good route!
Paul
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The key point is that it is intended to be functional, serviceable and easy to repair while being supremely capable and durable. From what I'm hearing, it ticks all those boxes. As for electronics - don't run scared of electronics - they are a fundamental necessity of modern automotive engineering. The critical bit is how to make them not give problems. It can be as high tech as it needs to be so long as it can be fixed - this is the driving ethos behind this.
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Good teasing video giving more information about the suspension - an interesting configuration.
https://www.coventrytelegraph.net/news/business/manufacturing/best-glimpse-yet-land-rover-18290413
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Good teasing video giving more information about the suspension - an interesting configuration.
https://www.coventrytelegraph.net/news/business/manufacturing/best-glimpse-yet-land-rover-18290413
Same video I posted!
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Another (very small) update.
https://tinyurl.com/y6vgm5oo (https://tinyurl.com/y6vgm5oo)
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The windmill is Ford’s, on the doomed plant alongside.
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Not much happening on the ground when you drive past the construction site apart from piles of mud, some early stage ground works clearly being undertaken but with no signs yet of anything rising above ground level for the foreseable future.
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Interesting. The suspension is basically a remix of Range Rover Classic and Range Rover P38.
And it will be interesting to see how they get some sort of torsional rigidity into the chassis, and crash resistance. For they are the reasons that Land Rover went away from a ladder-frame chassis.
Chris.
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I've been to the Magna Steyr Plant in Graz a few years back, I had an invitation from Peugeot to visit the plant where my RCZ was made as it was one of the first in the UK. They also make the G Wagon there along with the Countryman for Mini plus they originally started the Puch 4x4 system used in the Haflinger which then went on to be developed for the G wagon, so you can understand why it's been developed there, it's a great factory to visit if you ever get an opportunity, plus you can stop at the Nurburgring on the way for a little spin around the track. :RHD
For anyone interested here is their website https://www.magna.com/products/complete-vehicles/product/complete-vehicle-production
RobS
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This appears to be it in disguise.
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I see someone has a sense of humour (i hope). The prototype appears to have BL door handles as per the MK 1 disco fitted the wrong way round. Surely part of one of the more unreliable door latching mechanisms in history (anyone who has enjoyed replacing the tiny swings in the door locks of a MK 1 disco will know what I mean.
I'll be slightly surprised if JLR doesn't go after them if that's broadly what the final vehicle looks like given how they view Chinese copies of their products.
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I understand what you mean about JLRs attitude to copies but then they should have complained about G wagons and the new jimny. I suppose this is going against JLRs decision to end the defender but we will see.
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I doubt if JLR will go after them - 1. They're in financial trouble so won't want the outlay in fees etc, 2. Ineos is far bigger and more diversified than they are, 3. What's your loss if someone copies your discarded design? 4. What's your protection for a 50 year old design (1969 Range Rover chassis)?
More likely that Ineos will buy JLR from the receiver at a knocked down price and then make it work - which is their speciality - but is normally directed at small things like refineries and chemical production plants.
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I would think that is a mule for testing the chassis / drivetrain. The body is a quick lashup, and bears no resemblance to the finished article.
Remember the Maestro Vans used for Freelander chassis testing?
Chris.
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JLR recently tried to copyright the shape of the Landrover/Defender in court. It was thrown out. There have been plenty of similar vehicles over the years, nothing JLR can do about it.
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Formerlyjeremy's made some very valid points there.
It is most unlikely JLR will go after Ineos, and a 5th reason could be that to do so would provide Ineos with loads of free publicity. And provide JLR with a heap of bad publicity. Questions could be raised along the lines of "If Ineos can make a viable modern utility vehicle, and make it commercially successful, why couldn't JLR?".
Maybe, it would be more sensible for JLR to assist Ineos in production, and licence them to produce & market the vehicle?
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JLR procrastinated for years about what to make. I think in the end their decision came down to making profit, and they had accepted that they couldn’t make a replacement for sensible money. Slightly surprised the Grenadier will have solid axle up front unlike all the pickups on the market. As someone has mentioned, this will have an impact on the crash testing. I’m sure all the computer modelling will have provided Ineos with some level of confidence.
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Can't wait to see it.
Hope they are successful.
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So do I... I'm one of their consultants...
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Dont know who "Unsealed 4x4" are, but this looks good.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4stORSTFKHE&feature=youtu.be&fbclid=IwAR2XF0aiwZ5XvSF9CAciSNq2egnNkK5BOAjvCWSX-iNrJIOpFYEeNSKdXzE (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4stORSTFKHE&feature=youtu.be&fbclid=IwAR2XF0aiwZ5XvSF9CAciSNq2egnNkK5BOAjvCWSX-iNrJIOpFYEeNSKdXzE)
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write up in GQ
https://www.gq-magazine.co.uk/lifestyle/article/ineos-grenadier-preview?fbclid=IwAR3Qm-dWcQX7ncBkYxctNM_M8NQQFOPWLjXGU7wecL4U6-x-QjpLD1Uuz8M
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Looks like a Santana version of a Defender.
It's hinges stand proud so is it one of our crowd?!
:cheers
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It's hinges stand proud so is it one of our crowd?!
:cheers
More so than the latest offerings from JLR
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I’m not sure about the lights but it’s a bit like putting a party hat in a defender and saying it is a different design. I do like it - a lot.
Martin
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.... and here's some pictures of what it might look like:-
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More so than the latest offerings from JLR
Very true.
It’s much more of a Defender than the new Defender.
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Just watched the video on the webpage,
I like it, not a copy of the Land Rover but close enough to make me like it. I prefer it over Land Rovers vehicles anyway.
Nice to see they are building multiple bodies and wheelbases too, they mentioned a double-cab pickup that looked more like a 130 wheelbase Land Rover. Wonder if they will make a short one more like a 90?
Not sure about BMW engines, I've never liked BMW as a company or anything they have produced, didn't do a great job of the L322 Range Rover. I was almost expecting a Ford engine from the transit to be in there?
Craig.
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Must be a lot of interest on their own website. Video keeps crashing.
Wonder if there will be a SWB?
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Just watched the video on the webpage,
I like it, not a copy of the Land Rover but close enough to make me like it. I prefer it over Land Rovers vehicles anyway.
Agreed
Nice to see they are building multiple bodies and wheelbases too, they mentioned a double-cab pickup that looked more like a 130 wheelbase Land Rover. Wonder if they will make a short one more like a 90?
SWB, yes please!
Not sure about BMW engines, I've never liked BMW as a company or anything they have produced, didn't do a great job of the L322 Range Rover. I was almost expecting a Ford engine from the transit to be in there?
Craig.
Each to their own, I have 2x BMW motorbikes and an L322. :-[
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Must be a lot of interest on their own website. Video keeps crashing.
Wonder if there will be a SWB?
Yep, for me too. But the same video is on youtube https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yZVYpdoqFow (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yZVYpdoqFow) and plays just fine.
It maybe my poor eyesight but isn't it a proper i.e. not the new, Defender? Looks good to me. I want one. And I might just try and find a way to treat myself before I'm too old! :-X
Paul
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Well, I loved my Defender but, in reality, it was pretty *&%^$.
You'd freeze from the cold inside in the winter, fry from the heat in the summer, seats up or down there was precious little storage space inside and removing the seats was an exercise of a thousand super long bolts, all with their threads exposed to the elements... and let's not talk about the fun of stripping out the dash to get to the windscreen washer jet.
I wonder if this is all still in the Grenadier's genes...
For the Grenadier, it looks OK. I like the full width rear door. I don't particularly like the (I guess) rub-strips on the doors, between the handles, it looks a bit contrived.
I'd like to see it in the flesh - it's streets ahead of the current tat offered by Land Rover themselves!
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I think the idea of the rub strips is that they’re for mounting accessories. Have you seen the interview with the chief engineer?
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I haven't seen the interview, I'll look it up.
Cheers Tony
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Hi,
Co-incidentally, lying in bed last night, Barbara playing with her Kindle ...
"What's this Grenadier?"
Looks OK .. for a new truck ... but if I could afford it, I think I'd go for a S1 88", and a Jensen 541. (One to pull a trailer, the other to pull the birds) I mean, why pay VED when you don't have to. A neighbour has a RAV ... VED costs him £600pa.
602
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It's hinges stand proud so is it one of our crowd?!
:cheers
I think we have to wait for the Grenadier 2 or 2a? ???
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https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-53317740
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Jim whatshisname, ardent Brexiteer, moving this operation to France?
Wonderful.
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BBC reporting the project is on hold, that Ineos is looking to buy a site in France, "ideally suited" to building the Grenadier.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-53317740
Ineos is 60% owned by ardent Brexiteer Jim Ratcliffe....who has moved to Monaco.
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Ineos has a track record of holding authorities to ransom to get a favourable financial position (see Grangemouth) so it wouldn't surprise me to see the same happen again.
That said, it does look as though we are heading for a hard Brexit, so they could be following a number of the other automotive OEMs who have already declared that they will be making their investments within the economic boundaries of their market to avoid the 22% tariff.
Alec
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Ideally suited to 4x4 building then in the Land Rover heritage, as I've never owned a reliable French car, Renault Clio caught fire and two Peugeot vans broke catastrophically as well.
Simon.
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I too saw this on the news today.
I agree with Alec.
It's a dodge to get government funding, as rich as the man is.
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Covid19 -> High Unemployment -> Keynesian Economics -> Government Grants -> Shop around to find the most generous government
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If they wait a while, maybe the JLR Solihull site will be for sale..... :whistle
In the meantime, no decision has yet been made.
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If they wait a while, maybe the JLR Solihull site will be for sale..... :whistle
In the meantime, no decision has yet been made.
Ineos buys ailing JLR
Ineos sells Jaguar
Ineos builds Grenedier at Solihull
Defender owners delighted
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Ideally suited to 4x4 building then in the Land Rover heritage, as I've never owned a reliable French car, Renault Clio caught fire and two Peugeot vans broke catastrophically as well.
Simon.
Had a 406 HDI since 2001, just service parts 130 k miles
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The only reason I would have considered buying one is that it was made in the UK and supported UK jobs....that’s a shame.
....it could be correct....and might be a strategy to extract more Government support. leaving the EU we need as much manufacturing in this country as possible producing valuable products which can be sold overseas.
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I see the Welsh government may seek to get its grants back. Why is there any doubt that this money can be recovered? Incompetent lawyers not drawing the documents properly?
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Latest update just out.
Interesting they called the first prototypes the 2A :cool
https://ineosgrenadier.com/reveal/engine-and-transmission?utm_source=Salesforce&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=btg5&utm_content=ep5_kmi_en_v2&userId=GY4NPoLR6RZjRcn+Yxj/SBZndypB/4/KwADihx+t2Mg=&lastname=fxvT9E6Hft65HiBVWEI0mw==&country=United%20Kingdom&lang=blank&utm_source=&utm_medium=&utm_campaign= (https://ineosgrenadier.com/reveal/engine-and-transmission?utm_source=Salesforce&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=btg5&utm_content=ep5_kmi_en_v2&userId=GY4NPoLR6RZjRcn+Yxj/SBZndypB/4/KwADihx+t2Mg=&lastname=fxvT9E6Hft65HiBVWEI0mw==&country=United%20Kingdom&lang=blank&utm_source=&utm_medium=&utm_campaign=)
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I must admit the engineers names made me smile, Fuchs & Zwallo :whistle
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So far, Grenadier could have saved itself a lot of design work by going through the Land Rover parts bin!
Chris.
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I think (or at least I hope), that we've been through the LR parts bin, decided its all not great quality and gone out to source better. At least that's the brief while I've been involved. It will be a phenomenal vehicle wherever its built.
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Looking good!
Hope it wont differ too much from the prototype. Does the strip under the rear windows need to be there?
Does it just have one windscreen wiper?
https://uk.motor1.com/news/442616/ineos-grenadier-prototype-display-concours-of-elegance/
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I suspect it is part of a clever scheme. Land Rover are pursuing legal action I believe saying that Ineos have basically copied Defender.
Here we can see Ineos lining up a whole bunch of very similar looking vehicles, so they can claim otherwise.
Chris.
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That legal battle I believe has been won (by INEOS)...
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Looking good!
Hope it wont differ too much from the prototype. Does the strip under the rear windows need to be there?
Does it just have one windscreen wiper?
https://uk.motor1.com/news/442616/ineos-grenadier-prototype-display-concours-of-elegance/
What you are looking at there isn't even a prototype, its an engineering "mule" with a mocked up body. One working wiper is all it needs to be a functional test vehicle.
The strip below the rear windows is an equipment mounting runner - really quite useful!
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Wheels and tyres now!
https://tinyurl.com/y4vvu29d (https://tinyurl.com/y4vvu29d)
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That sticky out wheel centre is going to get scratched to pieces in ruts.
Why design it that way? :stars
(https://i.postimg.cc/52gY9rW7/8868-A4-E2-8-AAE-4-FAA-A8-CB-7-F5-F2-EB6-E81-D.jpg)
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Have you been seeing it on the climbs during the Vuelta?
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We had it on the Giro d'Italia as a support vehicle.
Remember this is only a prototype!
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It's doing the Vuelta at the moment and pops up occasionally on various sports channels.
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Now building 80 prototypes (The 2B :stars)
https://tinyurl.com/11o8qns7 (https://tinyurl.com/11o8qns7)
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Now building 80 prototypes (The 2B :stars)
https://tinyurl.com/11o8qns7 (https://tinyurl.com/11o8qns7)
It seems to me they are definitely playing on the historix land rover naming system.
I think it looks brilliant. I'd love one!
I would also at £30k.. but is it going to be anywhere near that or will it end up being £50k+?
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Its actually pretty standard nomenclature in automotive pre production, but its nice to see it fits with LR!
Price-wise - it will be a bit North of £30k for definite...
Interestingly - thanks to all the new vehicle price lists on the S2C website, I worked out what a 1965 2A Station Wagon with options would have cost in 1965 (about £1150) and then adjusted that taking into account inflation for 2021 and it came in at just under £18,000. Who said cars are cheaper these days? If I could be a Land Rover Station Wagon new now for under £20K, I'd be a happy chappie...
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Interestingly - thanks to all the new vehicle price lists on the S2C website, I worked out what a 1965 2A Station Wagon with options would have cost in 1965 (about £1150) and then adjusted that taking into account inflation for 2021 and it came in at just under £18,000. Who said cars are cheaper these days? If I could be a Land Rover Station Wagon new now for under £20K, I'd be a happy chappie...
You do get more on a vehicle these days. The 1965 model is pretty spartan compared to even a Dacia Duster. And the technology that you get on every vehicle now is highly impressive.
Chris.
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True Chris, but I remember being told by one of the engineers at Land Rover that a manual lockset on a 110 Defender Station Wagon was more expensive (their cost) than a complete keyless entry system for a full size Range Rover...
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You do get more on a vehicle these days. The 1965 model is pretty spartan compared to even a Dacia Duster. And the technology that you get on every vehicle now is highly impressive.
Chris.
I'm not sure I entirely agree. I do agree over certain safety features - seatbelts are not something I am averse to and crumpling steering columns and airbags are probably a good thing, but a lot of the sensors, engine management system all the screen options and readouts just strike me as more features than benefits. Enough sound-deadening to be able to hear the radio is nice but having a vehicle where when it goes wrong you have no choice but to plug it in to a computer is not something I overly enjoy.
I think if I was trying to use something out in the back of beyond I would be more likely to find a bit of metal to bash into shape and a car battery to weld it with than an engine management computer, although I do accept that driving around the UK that probably doesn't apply too often, but when it does it will be more of an acute problem if not on a metalled highway, which is kind of where this type of vehicle is supposed to be able to take you, unlike the RAC truck you then need to come and get you out.
Alec
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Just watched the latest episode. And I wanted to be a fan of the new Grenadier. Indeed in the early video releases I was excited and had determined that I would be a customer.
I still think a great vehicle, but I have cooled somewhat with its production leaving the UK. Somehow that was part of the appeal. I am not a 'vote leave' everything British is best and it should be built in Lode Lane. Nevertheless, I had thought it would be built in South Wales and I would buy one. Now, I view it in the same category as any vehicle built in Japan, Germany or USA. Strange, now that I feel much less inclined to purchase. No that is not true, I don't want one now and have unsubscribed to the email list.
Don't know what to do now. The new Defender isn't it either. I suppose that I will have to stick with GEU and the smile that driving it today picking up timber on a 60 mile round trip brought to my face. Maybe a respray in time and maybe power steering when my arms become weak. :-X
Paul
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I'm not sure I entirely agree. I do agree over certain safety features - seatbelts are not something I am averse to and crumping steering columns and airbags are probably a good thing, but a lot of the sensors, engine management system all the screen options and readouts just strike me as more features than benefits.
I can mostly agree with that. I was careful not to say that all of the new tech. was essential! Unfortunately a lot of it is mandated by emissions and safety legislation, unavoidable in our jurisdiction.
Just watched the latest episode. And I wanted to be a fan of the new Grenadier. Indeed in the early video releases I was excited and had determined that I would be a customer.
I still think a great vehicle, but I have cooled somewhat with its production leaving the UK. Somehow that was part of the appeal. I am not a 'vote leave' everything British is best and it should be built in Lode Lane. Nevertheless, I had thought it would be built in South Wales and I would buy one. Now, I view it in the same category as any vehicle built in Japan, Germany or USA. Strange, now that I feel much less inclined to purchase. No that is not true, I don't want one now and have unsubscribed to the email list.
Sadly I am in the same boat.
Chris.
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I still think a great vehicle, but I have cooled somewhat with its production leaving the UK.
I feel somewhat the same, however I can understand why they did it. How often do you come across a modern, ready made, fully functional factory along with a Merc trained workforce up for grabs?
Sadly there doesn't appear to be a lot of room for sentiment in modern economics.
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It'll be ghw ready made factory that keeps the price less than £100k. It's saved them billions.
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I saw this a while back ....
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Good Evening All,
As appealing as the vehicle is the fact that Ratcliffe was a staunch supporter of Brexit and has moved production out of the UK means I won't be a customer personally.
I'll need to keep the 110 running until diesel becomes unavailable or prohibitively expensive.
Regards
Richard
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Since Brexit doesn't matter to me, IF I had the $ I would like to get one, but I am not gung-ho for the same reason as Agg I want something I can repair if it breaks in the outback of the good ol USA. Not to have to get on a satellite phone and call for a $7000 tow out of some, so lost not even god can find me canyon.
I'd love a less leaky, autobox, solid axle, 150hp, personally customizeable, 4x4, sub $30,000.
I just don't think it's going to happen.
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Knowing the Grenadier will be built in an ex Mercedes factory by Mercedes trained employees as opposed to a new build factory in Wales makes me more inclined to consider the Grenadier as an option.
Ineos didn't get where they are today by being commercially inept so I'm sure everything behind that decision, including the numbers, stacks up.
The $64k question now is what price will they sell them for?
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Having just watched the episode seven update where they explained how and where it would be built, as much as the sentimentalist in me would have loved to have seen it built in the UK, the level headed business man in me totally understands why they have chosen to build it where they have.
They have done a deal which nets them a £500M facility (they mentioned the figure in the clip) with fully up to date equipment and a workforce trained to Mercedes standards and quality levels straight out of the box.
Now maybe (and it’s a big maybe!) he could have achieved that in Wales (eventually) but the additional cost both in hard currency and just as importantly time (one and the same these days) would have made NO financial sense at all for his business. I personally love what this vehicle is about and I’m pretty certain I’ll buy one and if I buy one of the early ones, the chances that it will be well put together and of high quality will be much higher due to this decision than it would be if an inexperienced workforce were putting it together in a new plant.
Taking the sentimental emotion out if it and looking at the product, I see an awful lot to like.
Galvanised shell with aluminium doors and bonnet, BMW engines, Magna drive train etc. Some of the best in the business pulling together to make a proper replacement in the spirit of Defender but with most if not all the shortcomings addressed. What’s not to like?
Sure, we would all like it for £25k but this will be a niche vehicle that will need to claw back its investment over a shortish period and therefore it’s just not going to happen.
I expect he will pitch it between £45-55k which in the current market is about right.
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I think you are spot on with that message.
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I agree too. :ditto
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Ian59 an excellent summary which all makes sense to me.
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Just watching highlights of the Giro d'Italia and spotted one. Ineos Grenadiers team are using them in their support vehicles. It's part of the testing programme and they'll be at all three Grand Tours.
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I was on the Giro... Might have been me driving it!
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I was on the Giro... Might have been me driving it!
Well diffwhine I admire your tenacity in driving in the conditions they had today :tiphat
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T'was not me... I was on the Giro last October... Ours was a 2A prototype. These ones are the 2Bs
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Yestaday, I tried to purchase a Grenadier t shirt online, my bank saw it as an overseas (it is) transaction and flagged it and I had to call them today when they were open to stop the phone calls telling me my account has been hacked........
I got them to give me 24 hours to buy a t-shirt........a t-shirt. Shipping was half the cost of the Tee!