S2C Forum Archives
Main Section => Workshop Wisdom => 602's Musings => Topic started by: w3526602 on January 05, 2022, 05:19:39 AM
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Hi,
Check this out ....
https://www.disabledmotoring.org/motoring/purchasing-zero
Hmmm ... person who uses a wheel chair ... but not an invalid buggy. ???
Barbara used an electric invalid buggy, as she is unable to self-propel a regular wheel-chair ... but if she didn't have an electric buggy she would need to use a regular wheel-chair, and I would need to push her. She is able to foot-paddle a regular wheel-chair, but it's not a pleasant experience, and she would be unable to operate the right hand wheel brake.
On her one and only out-door expedition, since the start of Lock-down, (Dentist), she was able to transfer from her buggy into the car, and back again, on our return home. Not easy, but do-able.
But transfer from the car into her wheelchair, in the dentists car park, was rather traumatic, while transfer from her wheel chair back into the car, was scarey .... hanging onto the open passenger door, unable to move back into her wheelchair, nor point her nether regions onto the car seat ... it took about 20minutes to change seats, complete with the mandatory "rubber necks".
Does anybody have any experience of such VAT exemption ... or relevant advice?
Ultra Vires due to unreasonableness?
602
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Hi,
And then there is this ....
https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/605061/VAT1615A.pdf
... assuming the link works.
To clarify ... Barbara cannot even stand, unaided.
602
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John you can get electric (battery) powered wheel chairs, my wife has 2, a very heavy one we keep in her VW wheelchair adapted car and a lighter fold up one she uses in the house.
https://www.uk-wheelchairs.co.uk/freedom-chair-electric-wheelchair
take a look many different versions avaliable.
Paul
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Hi Paul,
Thanks for your interest. Barbara already has a substantial power-chair (I'll check the make and model once she gets out of bed). it is heavy, and stupidy powerful ... if obstructed ... like by a door frame ... the driving wheels will burn their way through the carpet. Acceleration from a stand-still is akin to a scalded cat, until you get used to it.
She can transfer from the powerchair into her car, in the drive, albeit not an easy task. Transferring, from her car to a traditional wheel-chair. in a public car-park is a "spectator sport". There comes a point of no return, where she is hanging onto the door, unable to get her bum neither into the car, nor back into the wheelchair, Even when hanging onto something, the time that she is able to stand is limited. Once she falls, it requires an ambulance crew with an inflatable cushion, to man-handle her into bed or her wheel-chair. They insist that I should not try to lift her myself. To date all such instances have involved either a shortie nighty, or the shower ... unlikely in a car park.
The reason for my interest in VAT exemption is that Barbara's car has just "been paid off", three years old, just had it's first MOT, no where near 10,000 miles on the clock. It is still on it's original tyres, despite my tendency, to Make road smoke when exiting those horrible tangential roundabouts in Milton Keynes.
I have owned the Freelander, for about 12 months. Apart from removing the noise from the transmission, and a new clutch, it has be faultless. It is still on the "part worns" that were on it when I bought it. VED and insurance are heavy.
When you look at it, having two cars in the family, with only one active driver, and a combined annual mileage of little over 5000 miles, does not make sense. I'm the wrong side of 80, she is three years behind.
It would seem that my days of Land Rover ownership are over, unless I can build an S2 on dinky wheels, powered by an electric motor intended for a canal boat. That is still on my imaginary back-burner. My life-style would not require "deep discharge" batteries, just £1,000 worth of TDi starter batteries, expecting to change them annually. I'm still researching.
Back to VAT exemption.
I have executive authority to buy a new car, better suited to Barbara's needs, than her Hyundai. I have not yet suggested a retired FX4 (photo anybody?), which will give me the choice between Barbara and her chair .... or a bale of hay.
Barbara is literally incapable of climbing into the back seat of any of the taxis in Milton Keynes. The candidates would require lots of space under the door frame ... a two door car (longer front doors) would have its advantages, if the seat could be moved a few inches further back than normal.
Suggestions please.
602
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John I feel your pain, The VW caddy we have can secure the wheel chair in the back with the occupant still in it. It has seat belts to hold the chair and the passenger in, this allows the wheel chair user to stay in there wheel chair, thus avoiding the troublesome issues of getting in and out of the car seat.
If you get a chance take a drive down to the mobility centre that Gilbo mentioned, they will show you the best option for your needs.
Paul
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Hi Paul,
Babara's "power" has a very (I think) depart angle. Social Services produced a custom built 60" ramp for the front door ... 1:5 gradient.
Her rear anti-tip wheels grounded on the ramp, before the driving wheels had had cleared the ramp. Both driving wheels spinning in mid air.
The ramp supplier returned the following day, with an 84" ramp ... 1:7 gradient ... which did work, but I was unhappy walking on it with my knees.
I think the maximum permitted gradient is 1:12, but I can't find the relevant rules.
We paid our builder £8,000 to remove the front door, move it out by two or three inches, then drop it three inches. The door barely clears the rubber backed door mat, and Barbara's buggy easily drives over remaining projecting door threshold. Then he lifted the brick laid drive, to match the new lowered door frame, with a negligible slope down to original drive level ... PLUS laying a new brick drive across the front of the bungalow, so neither car blocks the other.
The builder called again today, to measure up for moving our WC, and turning it through 90*, so that Barbara has something to hang onto, while dropping into place. That should also give her room in the bathroom to shut the door, when her chariot is in there with her.
I also asked the builder for an estimate for a 12 metre long, 2 metre high fence along the road boundary, with a 5 metre "crank" towards the bungalow, to include a 2.4 metre gate onto the front drive. Not many houses can accomodate a 10 metre boat in the garden. :whistle
602
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Hi,
I thought I had posted the details of VAT relief on disabled friendly cars, although I was vaguely aware that something wasn't right.
Was it deliberately rejected, or should I try again?
602
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Hi,
So I'll try again ...
VAT RELIEF ON MOTOR VEHICLES
1. You can purchase a motor vehicle, VAT free, when all the following conditions are met.
1.1. The motor vehicle is supplied to a disabled person who normally uses a wheelchair to be mobile.
1.2. The vehicle is permanently and substantially adapted.
1.3. The vehicle is for the domestic or personal use of the disabled wheelchair user, and
1.3.1. the supplier has been given a completed declaration, Form VAT1615A, which confirms eligibility.
2. DEFINITION OF WHEELCHAIR AND WHEELCHAIR USER.
2.1. In legal terms, a wheelchair is a chair on wheels for disabled people, which is either manually, or electrically powered.
2.2. A mobility scooter is not a wheelchair for VAT purposes.
2.3. A wheelchair user is any disabled person who normally uses a wheelchair in order to be mobile.
2.4. A person who occasionally uses a wheelchair is not eligible.
2.5. For further information, please see the HMRC leaflet about purchasing zero-rated adapted vehicles for Customers, Dealers, and Suppliers.
2.6. Phone the VAT Disabled Reliefs Helpline on 0300 123 1073, select option 3.
The helpline is open Monday to Friday, from 8AM to 5PM.
2.7. Contact HMRC by secure email, on ...
http://www.hmrc,gov.uk/charities/vat-relief-disabled.htm
3. MOBILITY SCOOTERS and POWERED WHEEL CHAIRS
3.1. In legal terms, a wheelchair is a chair on wheels for disabled persons, which is either manually propelled, or electrically powered.
3.2. A mobility scooter is not a wheelchair for VAT purposes.
3.3. A Wheelchair User is any disabled person who normally uses a wheelchair to be mobile. A person who occasionally uses a wheel chair is not eligible.
3.4. Phone the Disabled Reliefs Helpline on 0300 123 1071, and select option 3.
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If you get a chance take a drive down to the mobility centre that Gilbo mentioned, they will show you the best option for your needs.
Hi Paul,
Thanks for your interest.
First, I have no recollection of Gibbo mentioning a mobility centre (probably an AGE THING, on my side). I am aware of CARECO, which is less than a couple of miles from where we live. Barbara doesn't do "travel", for the reasons being discussed ... making an exhibition of herself in a car park ( A chicken and egg situation), but buys plenty of stuff from them, by mail order.
I "done a Google" for the VW Caddy ... looks nice (but less so the price), and it does not have enough seats for our extended, non-driving family ... daughter nearing retirement, and two ginormous grand children. Not a problem while we have two cars ... Hyundai iX20, and the Freelander. We (me!) do not do enough miles to justify our vehicle overheads.
OT ... I'm pondering on suggesting that we sell both our houses, and buy a "ceased trading" pub. I have also been casting covetous eyes towards the old Fire Station, with over half an acre, on Watling Street ... I don't know the price, and it's had a SOLD board up for several months. We can all dream.
602
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Hi John, our caddy can seat 6 people, 2 in the front, 3 in the middle row and 1 person in the wheel chair strapped down in the back.
Sometimes you just have to be selfish in life and meet your own needs before others.
I will try to take some pictures to show you how it all works.
Paul
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Sometimes you just have to be selfish in life and meet your own needs before others.
Hi Paul,
But on the other hand, you should always remember who will be choosing your care home.
I know there is somebody on this forum who will frown at me, but I have it in my mind that I should nip into MK, to investigate the Dacia Logan, which is reputed to be huge.
As far as I am aware, nobody has asked, nor answered, the question about the expected life-span of a new, NON-battery powered car. For how long will be be able, or allowed, to burn fossil fuels. Horses are fun, donkeys are lovely, but neither are ideal as a means of personal transport. A mule will beat a horse, hands down, but are intelligent enough to ask "Why should I?", and can kick backwards, forwards, and sideways.
602
602 (who no longer does "leisure motoring")
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Hi Gibbo,
PM sent at 06.40.
602
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Hi John, I’ll try and pop in and see you early next week. Dave
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Hi Dave,
:cheers
OT ... I've asked Dave Gibson (our builder) to get on with extending the fence, at 2.5m high.
602
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I have a friend who lost his left leg just below knee in a motorcycle accident. He has been happily driving his manual Morgan Plus 4 with an electric clutch conversion (small lever on gearstick). Unfortunately it recently packed up and being a niche market for the Italian made convertion has been unsucessful in finding a UK agent to fix it.
It's now converted back to clutch pedal and he's looking to sell it. The latest bonded aluminium Morgan Plus Four comes in manual and auto versions (auto actually a tad quicker) but he cannot buy until 2023 as his disabled status only allows one VAT free capital purchase every three years.
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I have a friend who lost his left leg just below knee in a motorcycle accident.
Hi Richard,
If your friend is interested, it may be possible to regain some sort of motor-cycle entitlement. I dealt with one case, where a rider with one hand was able to operate the clutch, by turning the lever through 90*, and pressing down with his wrist. If the medics don't agree, demand a driving test ... with the examiner expecting you to drive safely, and NOT a brain-washed tyro.
When I was in charge of a Medical Enforcement team at DVLA, albeit nearly 40 years ago, we bent over backwards to help people to keep driving / riding .... although we were very strict about those with epiletics and diabetics keeping to their medication requirements. Young men were the worst culprits, seeming to think that life had dealt them a rotten hand.
Virtually every day, each team would get about five reports from driving examiners, about candidates who failed their driving test without turning a wheel ... they couldn't read a number plate at 25 yards (I think they were given a second attempt, although that was not a requirement). Officially, they should have been Medically Debarred from driving, immediately. In practice, we gave them a few days to provide an optician's certificate to say that they were able to meet the required standard.
I have no recollection of anybody (handled by my team) failing to meet the required standard ... after they had bought a pair of spectacles.
My mate (Reg Gen of Shipping) had a quad heart by-pass, refrained from driving for a month, like his surgeon told him, then carried on.
Similarly, I waited a month after they drilled a hole in my skull. I never informed DVLA. If you ask nicely, I'll let you poke y finger into the hole in my head. After that operation, Barbara phoned to see if I was awake yet ... heard me chatting up the nurses. Oops!
Shifting the gear lever was just a smidgen uncomfortable after breaking my left collar bone ... I estimate I was running in excess of 20mph, when I let go of the pony's leading rope. She waited for me, a few yards up the road, let me lead her back to her stable coal cellar. I could feel yesterday's "knitting" coming undone, some weeks later.
602
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Hi Richard,
Aha! Somebody who has achieved VAT Exemption. So it can be done! :cheers
The saga continues ....
I've been looking into renewing Barbara's Blue Badge. The rules seem to have changed.
(P1. The Blue Badge holder must be unable to reach a parking meter, (Presumably unable to feed it it.) Visions of doing a test run to the nearest parking meter. Barbara is unable to reach any electric light switches in our house ... she prods them with her stick ... which she carries in her wheelchair, especially for the occasion. The switches are 1200mm from the floor.
2. The Blue Badge holder must be the driver., to claim free parking. Presumably the passenger is still required, in order to unload the chariot.
3. Barbara is unlikely to meet a parking meter ever again. But it would be nice to be able to use the DISABLED bays in supermarkets, doctors surgeries,
etc. I presume that she is not allowed to use "Mother and Child" parking bays, although she needs the driver's door wide open, plus a bit more.
3.1. My since departed son-in-law, used to take one of our grand-children (when small), so he could use a M&C parking bay. I wonder if there is a market for full size, realistic looking dolls.
3.2. Totally OT ... but it's worth buying a DISABLED WC key, probably under £5 from whoever sells them (charity shops?) It used to cost £1 to use the public facilities at our boat mooring, but the disable cubicle was free ... IF you had a Key. Probably useful if you have a herd of sprogs, and there is a queue for the regular facilities.
4. More OT. Councils in London used to pay pub land lords to make their toilet facilities available to passers-by. I think it was £600 per year. Still?
5. A member of this forum commented on my comments about Barbara's disabilities. Thankyou for your concern, but SHE is well capable of putting me in my place.
6. We wandered into some sort of children's care home, probably Barnado's, before departing to the Far East (Royal Australian Air Force Butterworth, close to Penang. The Ozzies were fighting in Viet Nam, just two hoots and a holler away. I suspect my Bloodhound SAMS persuaded the bad guys to keep their distance ... although the new Ozzy CO never arrived, believed shot down. Big screech from Barbara, year's later. "What do you mean ... it was a war zone?").
Back on topic ...Barbara was promptly surrounded by assorted infants, all clammering to learn what was wrong with her arm. They had obviously been taught not to consider their disabilities as handicapped elephants in the room
I have seen Barbara and a Police Sergeant standing in the middle lane of the M4, traffic passing both sides, wagging fingers in each others faces. It ended with "Get your wife out of my site, and I'll say no more about this!" An offer to good to refuse. "MOVE IT!"
Who else would put the Sec of State for Transport at ease, by asking if his MGB had heavy steering (Yes)
Now married for30 days under 57 years, and I still wake up screaming.
602
PS. FAO Richard.
In my time in DVLA Medical Branch, our objective was to keep disabled licence holders driving if at all possible. I'm sure my team dealt with a one legged motorcyclist ... but that was over 40 years ago, and details have faded. If your mate doesn't have a car licence, I suggest he looks at motor-cycle combinations. Alternatively, assuming he doesn't have a car licence, he should be covered to drive a motor tricycle up to about 400kg. A Stimson Scorcher kit tricycle should be quite interesting ... if he can find one. Or a Citroen 2CV reduced to three wheels, with a hand clutch. Some 2CVs had a TRAFFICLUTCH, which I think was centifugal, so you could stop with declutching. In my time in Medical Branch, our brief was to keep disabled people driving, if at all possible ... and safe. I have dealt with both hand and foot amputees, but it was many years ago.
602