S2C Forum Archives
Main Section => Welcome to our virtual Pub Meeting ... => Topic started by: Ratty2A on August 10, 2022, 11:51:09 AM
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So, I'm off to Gaydon in the next couple of weeks to go through the build records to work out the last SIIAs and SIIBs ever produced as well as the last of each of the 72 variants - just been chatting to the archives and looking forward to the trip. Long story and I have another (older) post running on this: https://www.series2club.co.uk/new_forum/index.php/topic,7907.msg89209.html#msg89209
The trigger is that I've started to realise that the 'last ofs' are becoming well known:
The last Series III is C109 JOA, a 109 SW that is in the Heritage Collection at Gaydon.
The last 2 door Range Rover was a 1994 portugese model, chassis #KA647644 that was recently sold by Bonhams
The last Range Rover Classic, N901 WHP SALLHAMM3MA664120, was produced in 1996 and I believe is at Gaydon
The last lightweight (SIII) is owned by a chap on the Defender2 forum, a unit supplied to the Red Arrows.
Now there is a youtube channel (Vintage Restorations Australia) that in one video description (though not in the video) claims to have the last ever Series 1 produced. But in another video it is described as the last RHD series 1 produced. And a third says its the last Series 1 in australia. So I assume this isn't the last-last Series 1.
Just out of curiosity I wondered if any of out Series 1 owners knows if the actual 'last' Series 1 produced by the factory is a known model or if it has not yet been identified/found?
Any other 'lasts' are of interest too.
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The last S1 that you mention in Australia is a 107 SW I believe. The 107 SW's were continued after normal S1 production had stopped as the new S2 version was not ready. This is another reason why I believe they decided to fit the 2L's into the first S2 as they were having to continue 2L production for the 107 anyway.
So in theory, the last S1 will be a 107 SW, and I suspect the one in Oz is the last CKD numbered one of that series. And being CKD, it probably was the last assembled S1.
I remember a while back, someone had the last chassis numbered 109 2a (cant remember if petrol or diesel series). There are some very late 88 2a's about, my dad has one, but have not heard of the last one surviving yet.
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Thanks Paul - that's really interesting.
Re: "I remember a while back, someone had the last chassis numbered 109 2a", that was me. Well 109+1 the last owner raised it originally then I bought the vehicle last year and started the post linked above. Rather than the last chassis numbered 109 2a, its just the last numbered home market 109 utility - so there's every chance that another one of the 72 variants (prefixes) of SIIA/SIIB was produced after mine so I don't for one second think I own 'the last SIIA' as I believe that some production continued for some months after mine was built but its certainly the most interesting vehicle in my small collection and after Gaydon I'll be able to say "it was the Xth of the last Y Series IIA vehicles produced"
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Did the various models run sequentially throughout the production period?
Is my 109" export station wagon, 26206487D the 6487th model of that type built? Presumably the first would have been 26200001 and the last would be 2620????
The suffix letters just got added at the end I guess as and when they changed build status?
Craig.
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No idea where it comes in the running order but my 2b is a 1972 reg so presume it’s somewhere towards the back end. BTV 9K - chassis 33100509E. All I know is it was converted to fire engine by Carmichael - who knows it might be the one you are looking for or you might see it in the list as you look through.
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If I remember correctly, when I was there - there is a list in the front of the book that lists start and end Chassis number for each model year
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The last series one ever built I believe was an 80" assembled in 1965/66 from parts from the stores by the factory to test the feasibility of using the rover 2000 engine in a land rover. Chassis XC261-1 registered LXC229D . a further 5 prototypes were made based on series 11/11A running gear. The 80" is still around I believe.
And yes I realise this is "cheating" as the OP was presumably about production vehicles :D
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Be sure to check the build dates for the last few of each type as you will likely find the highest chassis number built was not the last to be built by date! This is certainly the case for the 1 Ton 109", which iirc had five vehicles built on the same day, the last day they were built, all built after 22900170H had been built.
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Thanks folks. Interesting that there was a post-production S1 built (like the telethon SIIIs), but yes it would be the last production Series 1 vehicle I would be curious about in this thread.
With regard to the approach I'm taking at Gaydon in identifying the last of each type of SIIA/SIIB (and to work out where mine sits on the list) then I'll write the method out now and will post it into the original thread I have been running rather than repeating it here or creating any confusion. Here is the link to that discussion: https://www.series2club.co.uk/new_forum/index.php/topic,7907.msg126931.html#msg126931
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The Company have been getting much more publicity-conscious about their "last-evers", than they used to be.
Remember the furore around the "last Defender"?
And Noel Edmonds driving the last Range Rover Classic off the production line in February 1996?
Unfortunately, the various special builds, CKD models and "publicity re-builds from parts", make finding the last-evers of early models more difficult.
So good luck with your reasearch. :cheers
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Be careful of the last build by dates, people saying agh yes but car 3 was 'built' after car 5 was 'built'.... they normally went down the line sequential in there respective series, the dates we refer to at Gaydon are not build dates, they are dispatch dates, the day the cars made it through to the dispatch department/compound..
It is still the same today, the official last of line cars that get pictured are indeed the last vehicle to come of the line, however by dispatch date, there will almost certainly be a pile of chassis numbers/cars that go into dispatch after the last official built went through.
For me, I always personally use the chassis number series as the master not the dates given by Gaydon. The dispatch dates when looked at in big lots, do go some way to giving you a good guess of actual build.
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Two points:
First, as far as late S1's, I bought my 86" project in 2014 from a man in french-speaking Switzerland who has a large collection of Swiss Series.
Among them is an S2 88" which he said is a 1958 prototype which is an S2 body built on an S1 chassis, 2L petrol engine and S1 running gear. He said that the pedals are even mounted on the chassis.
I glanced at it from a distance. I have no chassis number for it, nor did I investigate it any more than taking a blurry photo of it from 10' away, on which I can't recognize anything distinguishing it from any other very early S2. Very much a Loch Ness Monster.
I have no idea how you'd figure out from the Gaydon records if this vehicle is what he says it is, but if you run across a strange-looking batch of numbers sent to Switzerland in 1958, you might be on to something ... ? Regardless of what you discover, I do intend to visit him again with my rebuilt 86"!
Second, as far as accuracy of the records, the "G" suffix 109 right hand drive export chassis number of my Dormobile was first registered in London in February 1969 but Gaydon says it was dispatched in April!
-Jeremy
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Two points:
First, as far as late S1's, I bought my 86" project in 2014 from a man in french-speaking Switzerland who has a large collection of Swiss Series.
Among them is an S2 88" which he said is a 1958 prototype which is an S2 body built on an S1 chassis, 2L petrol engine and S1 running gear. He said that the pedals are even mounted on the chassis.
I glanced at it from a distance. I have no chassis number for it, nor did I investigate it any more than taking a blurry photo of it from 10' away, on which I can't recognize anything distinguishing it from any other very early S2. Very much a Loch Ness Monster.
I have no idea how you'd figure out from the Gaydon records if this vehicle is what he says it is, but if you run across a strange-looking batch of numbers sent to Switzerland in 1958, you might be on to something ... ? Regardless of what you discover, I do intend to visit him again with my rebuilt 86"!
Second, as far as accuracy of the records, the "G" suffix 109 right hand drive export chassis number of my Dormobile was first registered in London in February 1969 but Gaydon says it was dispatched in April!
-Jeremy
Pre-registration of an ordered vehicle perhaps? And are you sure they show the same year? Could have been a long while in the conversion works. My series III cherrypicker was a year old before it was registered.
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Pre-registration of an ordered vehicle perhaps? And are you sure they show the same year? Could have been a long while in the conversion works. My series III cherrypicker was a year old before it was registered.
I was slightly mistaken: First reg 25 Feb 1969, according to the MOT's I have that go back to the first owner.
However in the Gaydon records, it was ordered 6 March 1969, dispatched 1 May 1969. I had averaged that to April, I guess! Seems like a very long time between order and dispatch.
It was not sent to Martin Walter, which would have been the norm, but to "Lawrence, Marlborough". That part indicates to me that somewhere along the line the Dormobile fittings were plopped onto a different vehicle, especially considering that the vehicles before and after mine in series were sent to Martin Walter, according to Gaydon. This was all researched for me by a Dormobile club member long ago.
But how/why the first reg was before the order/dispatch? Someone told me once that this was common for English fleet vehicles.
It's all just to reconfirm what the others have said, that the records aren't linear.
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If you have the British registration number, you could just check the date of first registration here: https://www.gov.uk/get-vehicle-information-from-dvla , just to make sure that there isn't a transcription error on the MOT certificates that you have been referencing.
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Be careful of the last build by dates, people saying agh yes but car 3 was 'built' after car 5 was 'built'.... they normally went down the line sequential in there respective series, the dates we refer to at Gaydon are not build dates, they are dispatch dates, the day the cars made it through to the dispatch department/compound..
It is still the same today, the official last of line cars that get pictured are indeed the last vehicle to come of the line, however by dispatch date, there will almost certainly be a pile of chassis numbers/cars that go into dispatch after the last official built went through.
For me, I always personally use the chassis number series as the master not the dates given by Gaydon. The dispatch dates when looked at in big lots, do go some way to giving you a good guess of actual build.
There are usually two dates in the dispatch register, one for when production passed it to sales and a second when it was dispatched out to the distributer. As said, vehicles were not built in chassis number order but in Build order which was presumably to even out the build content on the production line . Some vehicles will have offline build content after it leaves the main line which can hold it up before being passed to sales . When I worked there there was a Ninety that had a slight bump and was held back for about a week whilst the panel was changed before being passed to sales . One of my S3 LR's was one of 400 built without steering locks due to a shortage so they were parked outside and finished off when parts became available . This means there is no certainty by chassis number as to when it was finally finished and passed to sales and then to dispatch. I agree dispatch date can mean anything , but I think the date into sales is more relevant.
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If you have the British registration number, you could just check the date of first registration here: https://www.gov.uk/get-vehicle-information-from-dvla , just to make sure that there isn't a transcription error on the MOT certificates that you have been referencing.
Will there be any info publicly available from DVLA for the reg no of a vehicle listed as exported? I know there's nothing if a vehicle has been reported as scrapped. There might be if the export was never reported to DVLA, I guess, some of the old cars I sold on which are highly unlikely still to exist still have registration info available- DKO686C for one.