S2C Forum Archives
Main Section => Welcome to our virtual Pub Meeting ... => Topic started by: Genem on June 11, 2022, 06:05:17 PM
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Coming home from a shopping trip today we were not far behind this incident, a French couple in a Vauxhall hire car struck pretty well head on by a Clio, at speed and on the wrong side of the road on a sharp bend. You can see how far the Vauxhall was knocked back from the point of impact, the Clio is sitting on a pile of debris. Both vehicles suffered extensive damage but all the occupants walked away with no more than minor injuries.
First Ambulance arrived with in 10 minutes, very good considering its a pretty rural location, first Police car a few minutes later. Eventually the Ambulance took the two girls to A&E to be checked out, while the Police took the French couple and their luggage back to their Hotel to await the arrival of Avis with another hire car....having told Avis in strong terms that telling the driver he would have to wait with the wreck "until they could come out" and that he'd have to go back to Glasgow Airport for another car was "Not on, the guys been in a crash, he needs to be in the warm & dry."
10/10 to the Police and Ambulance Services, 10/10 to the airbags. Rather fewer points to Avis Customer Service...
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Absolutely 10/10 for the police, they often get stick but that sounds like good old common sense policing. George Dixon would have been proud……am I showing my age?
Alchad
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It's a testament to the millions of man-hours of engineering that goes into the safety of modern vehicles. Unsung and unrecognised until you are in a crash.
Engineers - the unsung heroes of just about everything we do. Saving idiots from themselves!
Chris.
P.S. The french couple may have been less fortunate if they had hired a Series II.
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P.S. The french couple may have been less fortunate if they had hired a Series II.
Absolutely. Considerably more immoveable metal to rattle your head off. The site is a very sharp bend after a long straight, regularly catches people out. If the French couples car had not been in the way I suspect the Clio would have been through the fence, and down the bank into the field on the left of the picture..
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Seeing accidents like this is very sobering.
My wife is currently in hospital recovering from being t-boned by a van which was swerving to avoid a driver on the side of the road. She will be fine in time, but it has got me questioning the merit of running around in the 2a either solo or with the kids. Our Skoda Superb was written off but they way it dealt with the crash undoubtedly saved my wife from more severe injuries or worse - the same crash in the Land Rover doesn’t bear thinking about
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This chap was lucky to walk away from colliding with my parked Defender 130 recently at 30mph. He pushed the 13O & trailer 6’ back, in gear with the handbrake applied.
Air bags deployed and only injury was a slight mark on his forehead.
Apparently he didn’t see it……….
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What structural damage did the 130 sustain?
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Unfortunately quite a lot, although I did drive it home.
Initial thoughts were that the chassis had been turned into a parallelogram as the passenger door had dropped and couldn’t be opened. however when the crumpled wing was removed the top of the bulkhead popped forward and all went back into line, all lines up on chassis jig.
Damage repair included new bumper, air con grill surround, wing, lights and surround, new wolf rim and tyre, new swivel, track rod ends, power steering box and suspension rebuild and of course paint.
It’s been away 8 weeks and cost £7500 ish plus the cost of hire of Ford Ranger at£350 a week!
Luckily he admitted full liability……
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A friend of mine was in a head on in his 2A & a Ford on the wrong side of the road . He was concussed , head hit the screen & he was wearing a belt, but no other injuries. Front bumper was pushed about 2 ft and engine went into & under the bulkhead. Unfortunately the other driver did not survive
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Hi,
Some of you may remember ... I was sitting watching TV, when I heard a "trump" type noise outside, looked out the window, saw Barbara's SAAB parked sideways across the road. ???
I later learned that she had arrived home, and parked (facing the wrong way) behind my lovely Disco (facing the right way). She climbed out of the SAAB, and decided it was parked too far from the kerb. So she climbed back in (didn't close the door), and started the engine.
SAABs must be in reverse gear, in order to remove the ignition key. She accepts that she must not have selected neutral before turning the key (nor closing the driver's door).
SAAB runs amok, high revs, despite neither fo by front of front wingot being on any pedal. SAAB heads for my Disco. Barbara spins steering wheel to avoid it. Driver's door on SAAB stilll open, hits the Disco in the head lamp, folding the SAAB door back against the front wing, followed the front of the SAAB wing hitting my Disco.
SAAB continues across the road, reverses into Ford Transit van that was parked on other side of the road, pushing the front end against the kerb, bending the front wheel, and making the "trump" noise as the tyre deflated.
Quite impressive score ... three vehicles written off, in about 15 to 20 feet, from a standing start in reverse.
LV were wonderful. "What happened?" they asked. "I turned the key, and the car ran amok!"
Within an hour, both our wrecks had been collected, and a courtesy car had been delivered. No documentation required, insurance payout received soon after. I had said that I wished to claim my losses from Barbara, and LV knew immediately why ... no sense in us both losing our No Claims. We didn't enquire too deeply into how the Transit driver got on.
Interestingly, Barbara's Hyundai cannot be started unless one's foot is on the clutch. Not difficult to arrange on a Series, just insert an oil pressure switch into brake hydraulics, to connect a starter solenoid to the starter button.
602
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I think you'll find most/all modern cars now need to have the clutch depressed before you can start the engine.
(my car has no ignition key - just a button to press for the starter)
Air bags, along with safety belts make a great contribution (along with vehicle design) in preventing injury (and death).
I think they won't activate if your speed is below 20 mph and below a certain G force.
If you are sat in a stationary vehicle and you get hit, the accelerometer should activate the air bags ???
Perhaps someone can test this.
They of course don't reduce accidents :shakeinghead
:blood_bus
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It's an interesting development having to depress the clutch to start - our modern demands that like many others.
I remember being told many years ago not to depress the clutch when starting - it was said to put unnecessary wear on the crankshaft thrust washers? I wonder if that still applies to modern engines?
Ian F
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It's an interesting development having to depress the clutch to start - our modern demands that like many others.
I remember being told many years ago not to depress the clutch when starting - it was said to put unnecessary wear on the crankshaft thrust washers? I wonder if that still applies to modern engines?
Ian F
Interestingly, I was told to do the opposite many years ago, and that the battery wouldn't be put under as much strain ???
I used to have an old Volvo 240 that was impossible to get into reverse on starting up on a very cold morning. Put it down to "drag" from thick gearbox oil. You had to select reverse first and keep your foot on the clutch, so I now do it automatically.
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Interestingly, I was told to do the opposite many years ago, and that the battery wouldn't be put under as much strain ???
I used to have an old Volvo 240 that was impossible to get into reverse on starting up on a very cold morning. Put it down to "drag" from thick gearbox oil. You had to select reverse first and keep your foot on the clutch, so I now do it automatically.
I was told the same, and do with the Land Rover.
Less strain on the battery, more so in the cold winter.
Never done any harm to the crank shafts or what ever in all my engines over the years.
If it's bad practice then I apologise to all my engines.
:RHD
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I think I can see that the clutch release bearing would push the crank forward when engaged (?) but this tale is perhaps something invented by an old timer to impress any young audience willing to listen.......
Ian F
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I think I can see that the clutch release bearing would push the crank forward when engaged (?) but this tale is perhaps something invented by an old timer to impress any young audience willing to listen.......
Ian F
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I think I can see that the clutch release bearing would push the crank forward when engaged (?) but this tale is perhaps something invented by an old timer to impress any young audience willing to listen.......
Ian F
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Triumph (car) engines were notorious for crankshaft end float due to failure of the thrust washers. The crankshaft pulley could be seen to move forwards when the clutch pedal was depressed.
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Yes, the thrust washers did occasionally fall out when the end float became excessive☹️☹️
Ian F
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Hi,
A long time since I got that deep into an engine, but memory tells me the thrust washers were each side of a main bearing, to stop the crank-shaft being pushed forward when the clutch pedal was depressed.
I suggest that in normal running, there is very little lateral pressure on those thrust bearings, but a lot of pressure when the clutch pedal is pushing the crank-shaft forward, with virtually no lubrication until the oil pump is "on song".
602
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The crankshaft pulley could be seen to move forwards when the clutch pedal was depressed.
Hi,
Been there, done that!
The 602 solution? Fit a large (big enough to pass over crank's rear flange) taper roller bearing between the flywheel and the back of the crankcase. It would only be stressed when the clutch is depressed.
602
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Hi,
A long time since I got that deep into an engine, but memory tells me the thrust washers were each side of a main bearing, to stop the crank-shaft being pushed forward when the clutch pedal was depressed.
I suggest that in normal running, there is very little lateral pressure on those thrust bearings, but a lot of pressure when the clutch pedal is pushing the crank-shaft forward, with virtually no lubrication until the oil pump is "on song".
602
Agree with all of that John. Always a test worth doing on Triumph engines if any doubt about wear. Thrust washers on the TR engine were slotted in either side of the centre main if I remember correctly. On the smaller Triumph engines if they fell out then it was goodbye engine!
Ian F
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Never ceases to amaze me how OT we can go on this forum yet still maintain a thread. How did we get from a serious crash in Scotland to crankshaft thrust washers on a Triumph?
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My apologies! I always do think exactly the same and have a slight pang of guilt....
But, it is a "pub meeting" and you know how those discussions ramble around.
Ian F
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I'm not complaining - just find it amusing. Some OT runs are really quite impressive!
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I think it has to be John...... He is a master rambler! Check back on this thread and see where we went off at a tangent😁
Ian F
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Yup... 602 is the guilty party... :cheers
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Yup... 602 is the guilty party...
Hi,
In which case, perhaps I'd better not mention another matter that I was slightly involved with ...
Motor Cycle provisional licences being withdrawn for 12months if you haven't passed your bike test within two years (2 years on, 1 year off). which was introduced (I think) in the mid-1980s.
I reluctantly agree that it seems to have reduced the Death Rate among young bikers.
My last bike, on L-plates, in the UK, was a Douglas 600cc "fore'n aft" flat twin, although I rode some obscure 185cc Japanese bike on Penang Island, for two years, as my UK MOPED licence gave me full bike entitlement in Malay. An RAF Policeman advised me that everybody who rode a bike would visit sick-bay at least once. He was correct, my OFF was quite spectacular, taking about 50 yards from a standing start. I visited Sick Bay, and had my arm sprayed with "Honda Rash" (purple dye). Driving in KD shorts and short sleeved shirt may not be a good idea.
602
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Hi,
OT ... statistically, horse riding is the most dangerous form of transport.
My most spectacular fall was when the 16.2hh "hunter" I was riding, balked at a jump, I slid gently down his neck, and finished sitting on the jump's top bar. The instructor said it was my own fault for swearing at her horse. Next time round, I gave my riding boot a mighty whack (very loud) with my crop. He got the message.
602
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I can agree, I stood up in the strups /saddle to rescue another riders silks - hanging high up from a bramble - at a trot, only for 'Thomas' to apply a stop to all 4 hooves at the site of a dangling bit of cloth, leaving me little choice but to depart said horse in star a shape pattern straight over his ears. I have never had this happen in the Land rover to date.
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Hi,
I apologise to those who are upset by my "OFFS". Regard this as a warning that I'm about to do it again ... as soon as I can think of a meaningful title.
My excuse is that I forecast a reduction in the desirability of old Land Rovers.
602
PS. UNANTICIPATED RESULT?
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My excuse is that I forecast a reduction in the desirability of old Land Rovers.
I think you are very right. Only yesterday one of our local S2C members told me that he is selling his 2A following one of his family members being involved in a serious car accident (in another vehicle). Aside from rising fuel costs, concerns about safety in a serious collision must have a significant impact on anybody's perception of wanting to use this type of vehicle as a daily runner.
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I certainly won't be getting rid of my Series 3 until I am now longer able to drive it. It's my only serviceable vehicle at present.
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Hi,
To my mind, a motor vehicle represents FREEDOM ... and look what chaos that can cause.
602
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My choices at the moment are the series 3 ambulance or the motorbike, so I think I’m better off just not crashing. No way would you get me on a horse though. Happy to take my chances and at least if some muppet does crash into me in the S3 the big bullbar should ensure that they share some of the pain.
Airbags or not - about 20 years ago a rescue team were in a defender 110 stationary on the slow lane of a motorway, a hgv didn’t slow down (presume asleep) and hit them in the rear writing off the Land Rover and several cars in front of them as well. Everyone walked away. Consensus was if they were in any other vehicle would all be dead but although not a salvegable panel on the Land Rover the occupants were protected by the strength of the vehicle and having a real chassis.
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Interestingly, I was told to do the opposite many years ago, and that the battery wouldn't be put under as much strain.
Hi,
I'm not sure if it relevant, but way back when, the clutch release bearing used to be a carbon ring. Nowadays, Land Rover, at least, use a ball/roller bearing, which I'm guessing has a lower Coeficient of Friction than carbon on steel. ??? In theory, there should be little reason NOT to sit with your foot resting on the clutch pedal, other than the crank end thrust.
Discuss!
602
PS, If the clutch release could be by a "pincer" action, maybe the double actions would equal out, so no end thrust?
PS, My fore'n aft Douglas used a face cam to open the clutch, so little end pressure ... I think.
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I think you are very right. Only yesterday one of our local S2C members told me that he is selling his 2A following one of his family members being involved in a serious car accident (in another vehicle). Aside from rising fuel costs, concerns about safety in a serious collision must have a significant impact on anybody's perception of wanting to use this type of vehicle as a daily runner.
I think this applies to any classic car.
Safety (cell) just wasn't an issue back in the '50s & '60s.
:blood_bus
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I think this applies to any classic car.
Safety (cell) just wasn't an issue back in the '50s & '60s.
The logic of all this is that the only person who will drive a Series Land Rover like they stole it, is someone who has stolen it!
No?
:tiphat
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Safety (cell) just wasn't an issue back in the '50s & '60s.
Hi,
I got my first petrol thingy in the 1965, a 350cc OK Supreme with a JAP (Prestwich) engine. (Are JAP engines still used on speedway bikes?). Safety was just starting to become an issue ... too many young bikers hitting the railings. There was no limit on the engine size that could be ridden on a provisional licence, nor restrictions on what passengers could be carried on a combination. (Mum on the pillion, and brood in the "chair", pulled by a 1000cc JAP V-twin.
OT ... Mike Worthington Williams' first motor vehicle was a 1000cc JAP V-twin combination, that had spent it's life as a TAXI in Aberystwth (sp?), West Wales.
The last time I met Mike, I asked him what he was driving.
"A Male Menopause!"
"What's that?"
"A Ford Sierra!"
Last time I Googled Mike, I was sad to read that he had died. He was one year younger than me. But HE got a gong for services to old clunkers. He was famous for leading long queues of of slow moving traffic, when driving "Arthur", his 1920s Austin Heavy 12.
Mum demanded that I wore a CORKER crash helmet, a huge thing, not in keeping with my (then) slight build. My RAf medical, three years later, told. me that I weighed nine and a half stone, with a 32" chest. With the helmet on, I looked like the Mekon.
I also read that Robin Rew (He who sharpens Sabres) had also departed the mortal coil. I can remember Robin's 14 year old son, in his dad's racing Scimitar GTE, competing against Barbara, (grass Autotest) at the first Sabre Day, at Droys Court.
602