S2C Forum Archives
Main Section => Welcome to our virtual Pub Meeting ... => Topic started by: crumbly65 on May 13, 2023, 04:13:54 PM
-
With the demise of the Land Rover name, I was thinking today about the legendary status Land Rover vehicles have earned over the years.
I think we can all pretty much agree agree on the Series One being the first Land Rover, but I wonder what would be considered the last "proper" Land Rover?
I know every model has it's adherents and enthusiasts, but for me, I think it's the 300TDi Defender in whatever form (Station Wagon, Pick-Up, HCPU etc etc... It was, and still is, true to being a hard-working, adaptable, unpretentious vehicle, just like it's Series predecessors.
And that's not ignoring the Classic Range Rovers, and Discovery 1 & 2, which could be, and were/are, "working vehicles" in their own way in some circumstances.
I'd even consider a Discovery 4, with it's monocoque on chassis build, as a capable working Land Rover in particular circumstances, such as Mountain Rescue, or motorway patrol and such like.
So what do Forumeers believe to be the last proper Land Rover, true to the spirit and intention of the original?
-
So what’s wrong with the Tdci puma defender??
I run a 09 plate 130 daily for work, towing and carrying tools and materials for my landscaping business, very much a workhorse and fits the bill well.
I also run a 10 plate Dormobile conversion for holidays and expeditions.
I’ve run series, Ninetys and One Tens and Defenders of all wheelbases as work vehicles over the last 35 years and would say proper Landrovers ended when Puma production ceased in 2016.
-
So what’s wrong with the Tdci puma defender??
I run a 09 plate 130 daily for work, towing and carrying tools and materials for my landscaping business, very much a workhorse and fits the bill well.
I also run a 10 plate Dormobile conversion for holidays and expeditions.
I’ve run series, Ninetys and One Tens and Defenders of all wheelbases as work vehicles over the last 35 years and would say proper Landrovers ended when Puma production ceased in 2016.
Absolutely nothing wrong at all with the TDCi Puma! I'm not wanting to be controversial here, just asking for views. I agree, the Puma is a great Land Rover, with a decent heater too.... :first
-
Can of worms Crumbly! :-X
-
Can of worms Crumbly! :-X
Certainly is, but taken in the right spirit, every worm has a valid view..... :-X :-X
-
I think the P38 was the last proper Range Rover. Certainly the L405 is not.
Chris.
-
I'll throw in the Discovery 4.
Last of the big square chunky Land Rovers.
-
I remember when the td5 engine first came out, many people poo pood it as the first live by wire engine and was the last engine built by land rover I think. So I would say the td5 engined vehicles were the last proper land rovers.
It must be tricky for the writer's of a magazine like Classic Land Rover of when the cut of is for a classic land rover, without being labelled as a general Land Rover magazine covering all the models.
-
many people poo pood it as the first live by wire engine
"Fly by wire" Gary.
No Hobnobs for you!
-
You know what I mean :tiphat
I'm still waiting for you to buy more hobnobs :shakeinghead
-
I think the 300Tdi actually outlived the TD5 engine. It was available for export right up to the bitter end before TDCi production started and Rest of World orders continued to L316 runout.
-
A good question for a lazy Sunday.
Those who grew up in the SI, II & III era will likely answer differently to someone who`s first car was a Discovery TD5.
If he could show us what he thinks about it, where would Maurice Wilks draw his line in the sand :whistle I think he might draw it after Defender 300tdi and before the introduction of electronic systems. Of course he might be a gentleman and say that every LR is a proper LR :first
Controversial maybe, but in my view, the true lineage of the "proper" LR begins with the Series 1 continuing with S2, S3, 90, 110 and ends with Defender 300tdi, these were all natural evolutions to that first sketch in the sands of Anglesey.
The Rangie`s & Disco`s etc were all very different concepts and intended for other markets.
If we could take a vote to decide, like the PoM comp, what would we learn?
At least we can be grateful that Crumbly65 didn`t ask, which is the best LR :agh
-
I'd say any of the truly LR shape things including coilers 90s 110s etc.
Definitely Not discovery, RR, freeloader type "cars"
-
…..hard one this….but let’s have a go…
Moon Rover, Deep Sea Rover…..Moon….Water….. Land Rover?
The medium is Land to define the breed. In my book ‘Land’ means unsealed difficult tracks or countryside. Africa, Australia, Farming….not sure we need to exclude because of electronics….practicality and robustness is key…
So series are easy as are 90's 110's and original Defenders all the through to production end. Early Range Rovers…or shall we say classic range rovers without those low spoilers, boss had one on the farm I worked on that was my first Job and that worked hard so yes. Disco one …yes plenty on shoots I have beat on and lots of tricked up ones around here going laning and they had a commercial version.
So those are the easy ones in my opinion.
Disco 2 3 4 etc… I think no. Freelander no and I think P38 Range Rover onwards no…..but great for the open Range!
New Defender……actually that’s quite tricky….there’s a commercial version and the way Harry used it on Harry's Farm it could rather bizarrely meet the qualification.
Good thread…..thanks for the chance…a vote would be fun
-
…..ok I don't want to get expelled from the club……I withdraw my New Defender quip…. Sorry
-
Its all Land Rover - love it or loath it!
Don't underestimate the current Defender. It is a formidable tool in the right hands. In the wrong hands its just an embarrassment...
As I see it, this is really about what we regard as the archetypal Land Rover. That is such an individual perception, that there is no simple answer. Using this forum to vote is very likely to result in an overwhelming lean towards the older stuff and that's entirely understandable.
As an ex-Rover Group, BMW, Premier Automotive Group and JLR employee, I regard it as simple. In October 2008, JLR were hours from going to the wall. The solution was change or die. They changed - moving the brands up market using the premium price, premium product mentality. That saved JLR. It's not the same company I worked for and since that period, the mentality has changed totally. I came in on the end of the greats like Roger Crathorne and all those individuals who had pretty much grown up with the company. You don't get appreciated for long service in one organisation anymore. You therefore don't get a sense of honour and responsibility which we all had. The world has changed. Its not to my liking, but thankfully I'm not working in that rat race any more and can largely pick and chose who I work for these days. End result is cars designed for style over function and that doesn't work for me.
Were I pushed to make a call on the OP's question, I'd say that the L319 chassis (Discovery 3 / Discovery 4) was one of the best platforms we ever had. I've been all over the world in Discovery 3s and 4s and never cease to be amazed as to their functionality, off-road ability, carrying ability, towing ability and durability. That to me ticks many of the boxes that formed the basis of the original Land Rover.
-
…..that’s interesting……I love the shape of the disco 3 and 4 but have no driving experience of them and would be too scared to own one
-
I have to agree. It wasn't 3 years post-Series 1 launch before the Wilks brothers turned their attention to the Road Rover, a rugged station wagon with less outright off-road ability. The seeds of diversification were sown very early on and are part of the DNA imv. Not that I've owned anything other than Series 2s and 3s mind!
-
If we go back to the original design brief of the Land Rover, to be a utility vehicle for farming and light industry, with power take offs everywhere.. then it began with the series 1 and ended in 2016 with the last Defender. None of the other products fitted that brief, no matter how capable they may have been.
I'm bemused by the idea that somehow the TD5 and TDCI Defenders are somehow not "proper". Even the Tdi was very electronic when compared with a series which was largely mechanical.
The new Defender is very much a Discovery in spirit, which makes perfect sense when you consider the current Discovery as a Freelander replacement. Not personally interested in anything JLR are making now, my prerogative and nothing wrong in that, I'm likewise not much interested in anything else currently in production either.
I do wonder why JLR felt they couldn't follow in the footsteps of a company like Mercedes-Benz, known for premium motor cars *and* as the biggest producer of commercial vehicles in the world, with neither doing disservice to to the other. Going back 10/15 years the impression from JLR was that the Defender somehow "cheapened" the brand, which I've never understood.
-
I would go for the Freelander 2 as the last of the real LandRovers.
Still fairly basic mechanically and looks like a LandRover. Not the best off-roader but does enough for most.
-
Were I pushed to make a call on the OP's question, I'd say that the L319 chassis (Discovery 3 / Discovery 4) was one of the best platforms we ever had. I've been all over the world in Discovery 3s and 4s and never cease to be amazed as to their functionality, off-road ability, carrying ability, towing ability and durability. That to me ticks many of the boxes that formed the basis of the original Land Rover.
DW, I like the Discovery 3 and 4, but not for any of the reasons you give.
I just like the look of them.
Does that make me a Land Rover tart? :agh :-X
-
Absolutely! :first
-
:-\ The best LR has to be the unicorn centersteer, It was a mountain goat on the trails and the hayload was way beyond any farm vehicle of it's time. Anything after that is a poor imitation...... :thud
If ya can't tell I'm just funning ya! :tiphat