The Land Rover Series 2 Club Forum

Main Section => Welcome to our virtual Pub Meeting ... => Topic started by: Grandadrob on January 26, 2022, 01:53:05 PM

Title: Red diesel ban.
Post by: Grandadrob on January 26, 2022, 01:53:05 PM
The Government is about to ban use of red diesel in the construction industry. The best bit is the reason…… it is for environmental reasons.  So they switch to normal diesel.    There is no difference.
So for their words environmental reasons, substitute tax rise.   Is this the thin end of the wedge. Who next farmers, fishermen.  :shakeinghead
Title: Re: Red diesel ban.
Post by: Worf on January 26, 2022, 02:38:05 PM
They say that it will encourage a switch to "green" HVO, but that will be taxed at exactly the same rate as derv  :stars
And HVO is more expensive anyway!
Title: Re: Red diesel ban.
Post by: Betsy1969 on January 26, 2022, 06:04:24 PM
HVO ?
Title: Re: Red diesel ban.
Post by: diffwhine on January 26, 2022, 06:12:54 PM
Hydrotreated Vegetable Oil
Just kill off a few orangutans by destroying their habitat and planting palm oil instead...
Title: Re: Red diesel ban.
Post by: Noddy on January 26, 2022, 06:48:27 PM
https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/reform-of-red-diesel-entitlements/reform-of-red-diesel-and-other-rebated-fuels-entitlement.
A little night time reading.

Alec
Title: Re: Red diesel ban.
Post by: Matt Reeves on January 26, 2022, 07:18:51 PM
Hydrotreated Vegetable Oil
Just kill off a few orangutans by destroying their habitat and planting palm oil instead...

Exactly! Unfortunately many things which are now being promoted as being "green" are anything but :shakeinghead

To quote Pvt. Frazer We're doomed....
Title: Re: Red diesel ban.
Post by: Correus on January 26, 2022, 07:31:55 PM
Exactly! Unfortunately many things which are now being promoted as being "green" are anything but :shakeinghead

To quote Pvt. Frazer We're doomed....

True...  lithium and cobalt mining isn't all that 'green' either.
Title: Re: Red diesel ban.
Post by: Worf on January 26, 2022, 07:53:29 PM
Exactly! Unfortunately many things which are now being promoted as being "green" are anything but :shakeinghead

To quote Pvt. Frazer We're doomed....

In my experience (and probably along with  a lot of others), a large number of "green" products either dont work or are not really green at all (or both)
Wood preservative, paint stripper, water based paint and glue that dont work or need an ambient temp of 25c might be ok in California, but pretty useless in this cool and damp land. Wood pellets from quick grown trees replacing rain forests and then shipped half way round the world (in an oil burning boat) to be burnt at Drax were given huge grants and only now are greenies cottoning on to the stupidity of this. Not to mention EV's or ethanol production:shakeinghead

Apparently there is a reserve of mineable coal in the UK to last 400 years in the UK. The technology to "clean burn" this is  already there. Unfortunately it is all down to profit, and people lining their pockets. We are being duped, but I suppose that has always been the case.

Sorry, rant over. >:D
Title: Re: Red diesel ban.
Post by: diffwhine on January 26, 2022, 07:58:30 PM
And as a certain well known UK petrochemical company pointed out a few weeks ago...

Who produces all the raw materials to make carbon fibre reinforced polymers?

What are wind turbines made from...?
Title: Re: Red diesel ban.
Post by: GHOBHW on January 26, 2022, 08:21:40 PM
same as everything else, even farming now, they pay more for you to leave the field empty or plant it with trees than you get from crops, so more food is bought from across the seas, brought in on boats and people act like its a good thing, self sustaining should be the goal, but there is no thought in it anymore.

so long as we dont see it in the UK, its all fine and dandy. soon it'll all be planted or paved over and all the mess will be abroad and people will pat themselves on the back for it. ???
Title: Re: Red diesel ban.
Post by: BettyWhite on January 26, 2022, 08:30:40 PM
"Don't it always seem to go that you don't know what you've got 'til it's gone, they pave paradise and put up a parking lot"

Some people call it progress when we leave the the land and move into offices.

Good luck
BW

Title: Re: Red diesel ban.
Post by: Worf on January 26, 2022, 08:32:49 PM
same as everything else, even farming now, they pay more for you to leave the field empty or plant it with trees than you get from crops, so more food is bought from across the seas, brought in on boats and people act like its a good thing, self sustaining should be the goal, but there is no thought in it anymore.

so long as we dont see it in the UK, its all fine and dandy. soon it'll all be planted or paved over and all the mess will be abroad and people will pat themselves on the back for it. ???

Quite. Shipping avocados and almonds  (loved by vegans) flown in from across the world from unsustainable sources. Can't you make vegan sausages from grass  ???
https://impactful.ninja/least-sustainable-plant-based-foods/
Title: Re: Red diesel ban.
Post by: Neil Bymouth on January 26, 2022, 08:33:40 PM
And as a certain well known UK petrochemical company pointed out a few weeks ago...

Who produces all the raw materials to make carbon fibre reinforced polymers?

What are wind turbines made from...?
...and batteries for electric cars.
Title: Re: Red diesel ban.
Post by: Correus on January 26, 2022, 09:15:12 PM
same as everything else, even farming now, they pay more for you to leave the field empty or plant it with trees than you get from crops, so more food is bought from across the seas, brought in on boats and people act like its a good thing, self sustaining should be the goal, but there is no thought in it anymore.

so long as we dont see it in the UK, its all fine and dandy. soon it'll all be planted or paved over and all the mess will be abroad and people will pat themselves on the back for it. ???

Farmers over there are dealing with that as well?  Interesting.  Over here the same is happening, as well as farmers being ordered to destroy crops that are ready for harvesting.  They are threatened with the loss of subsidies.  And it's not just crop farmers.  Dairy farmers have been ordered to dump their milk instead of selling it.  There are videos showing dairy farmers taking their containers of milk out in the fields and dumping it.
Title: Re: Red diesel ban.
Post by: Old Hywel on January 26, 2022, 09:22:30 PM
…… dairy farmers taking their containers of milk out in the fields and dumping it.

Can’t do that here, it would probably be classed as toxic waste.
Title: Re: Red diesel ban.
Post by: Grandadrob on January 27, 2022, 08:25:51 AM
And here comes Valentine’s Day, with jet lagged flowers.  :shakeinghead
Title: Re: Red diesel ban.
Post by: Raybis on January 27, 2022, 03:45:13 PM
They say every action has a consequence and I really wish they would think these so called eco friendly ideas through.
Title: Re: Red diesel ban.
Post by: diffwhine on January 27, 2022, 04:41:47 PM
The one I always liked (and was told to me at Land Rover) was that a catalytic converter pushes more pollutants into the atmosphere in the manufacturing process than it can ever feasibly remove through its operating life...
Title: Re: Red diesel ban.
Post by: Grandadrob on January 27, 2022, 05:09:22 PM
Ah, that’s the usual cherry picking of facts. If you seriously analysed any of these so called green solutions you will find that actually they are not green at all. But we don’t want to talk about that bit.
Title: Re: Red diesel ban.
Post by: Genem on January 27, 2022, 07:18:33 PM
I'm sure its all utter nonsense, none of these changes have any value, its all a con. We should abolish all these stupid rules and regulations, go back to emptying our waste onto the street and burning coal. Bring back lead water pipes, chalk in the milk and lets get those kids back up the chimneys too, most of them don't enjoy school anyway. 



 
Title: Re: Red diesel ban.
Post by: w3526602 on January 28, 2022, 05:38:00 AM
There are videos showing dairy farmers taking their containers of milk out in the fields and dumping it.

Hi

That happened in UK many years ago ... sorry, I cant remember exactly when.

The following year, that land produces a record crop of grass.

I have read that an acre of land can produce 27 tons of bracken ... which is not good as animal feed, but surely it can be converted into heat?  On the other hand, it is reputed to be calcegenic (sp?), so maybe not a good idea to ramble through ... and it kills horses, although it takes a few years. I lost two horses, presumed due to bracken poisoning.

So turn pigs out onto bracken infested land, let them dig up the roots ... eat them before the bracken kills them.

602
Title: Re: Red diesel ban.
Post by: mrutty on January 28, 2022, 08:47:13 AM
Yeap the 'green' lie is hitting farmers hard. They swapped out all the 'bad' chemicals in fence posts about 6 years ago and replaced with with 'better, greener' ones. Now I rent my field to nextdoor, part of the deal is he maintains the fences. He refenced a 20+yearside, now I know they were quality posts as they were dropped off on my drive, I know they were put in correctly as I watched them go in from my office window. I have since watched each one of them fail. The old ones by the way I cut off the bottom rotted bits, repointed and use them on the chicken fences.
Title: Re: Red diesel ban.
Post by: Neil Bymouth on January 28, 2022, 09:50:23 AM
Green = naive.
Title: Re: Red diesel ban.
Post by: ChrisJC on January 28, 2022, 10:28:50 AM
I think green = well intentioned. However it's always derailed by lobby groups taking advantage of naive politicians and civil servants. So the result usually has unintended side effects which entirely negate the original benefit!

The wood-chip power station at Drax is a great example!

Chris.
Title: Re: Red diesel ban.
Post by: Worf on January 28, 2022, 11:04:06 AM

The wood-chip power station at Drax is a great example!

Chris.

Absolutely. I was involved in promoting wood pellet sales for a timber merchant, who thought it would be a good idea to set up a small plant to make use of waste sawdust by turning it into pellets to sell locally. He would collect the sawdust as a "backload" from customers who he delivered timber to in the local area. Thoroughly proper green idea for local recycling . He set up a very expensive plant and even won an award for local enterprise. Pellets were sold to local schools, prisons, council offices etc and private buyers who had installed pellet boilers.

However, within 2 years, he was being massively undercut by the "big boys", importing the stuff from half way round the world on oil burning ships, from plantations specially planted to grow the stuff (at who knows what cost to the environment). A good idea, hijacked for nothing but greed. His plant had to close, and he lost a lot of money and people lost their jobs.

As for Drax: https://www.energylivenews.com/2021/10/11/draxs-selby-plant-is-the-uks-biggest-co2-emitter/

Don't talk to me about "green"  >:D
Title: Re: Red diesel ban.
Post by: Rog-from-Bix on January 28, 2022, 01:25:36 PM
Absolutely. I was involved in promoting wood pellet sales for a timber merchant, who thought it would be a good idea to set up a small plant to make use of waste sawdust by turning it into pellets to sell locally. He would collect the sawdust as a "backload" from customers who he delivered timber to in the local area. Thoroughly proper green idea for local recycling . He set up a very expensive plant and even won an award for local enterprise. Pellets were sold to local schools, prisons, council offices etc and private buyers who had installed pellet boilers.

However, within 2 years, he was being massively undercut by the "big boys", importing the stuff from half way round the world on oil burning ships, from plantations specially planted to grow the stuff (at who knows what cost to the environment). A good idea, hijacked for nothing but greed. His plant had to close, and he lost a lot of money and people lost their jobs.

As for Drax: https://www.energylivenews.com/2021/10/11/draxs-selby-plant-is-the-uks-biggest-co2-emitter/

Don't talk to me about "green"  >:D

drax produces 6 odd percent of the UKs electricity and can do that 24 hours a day 365 days a year so it is going to produce co2 what do we do shut it and risk black outs ? no matter how green we wish to be producing no co2 is unlikely may be it would be better if drax burned coal and they found a way to stop the nasties getting on to the atmosphere.   
Title: Re: Red diesel ban.
Post by: Worf on January 28, 2022, 01:37:44 PM
Drax has had more than £850m in subsidies to burn wood, and it actually produces more CO2 than it did on coal, but is somehow offset by planting more trees. :stars
Just think, if that money had been spent on clean coal technology, we could have been self sufficient for centuries (which is probably about long enough to get fusion power to work)
Title: Re: Red diesel ban.
Post by: Wittsend on January 28, 2022, 01:53:27 PM
..... Drax, a big big mistake which will go down as such in history  :shakeinghead
Sat over 400 years of coal that can be made to burn with low emissions with great efficiency.

Can't do much about it, but I'll die knowing I was right.

 :wooly-jumper
Title: Re: Red diesel ban.
Post by: gatekrash on January 28, 2022, 02:28:48 PM
They say that it will encourage a switch to "green" HVO, but that will be taxed at exactly the same rate as derv  :stars
And HVO is more expensive anyway!

Indeed, and HVO is ridiculously difficult to get hold of. You can get it delivered in 205 litre drums, or 1000l IBC's which need their own bunded store, but you can't get it at a pump. Apparently a version of it is used in the aviation industry as a "green" fuel, it's used in bulk which means supply for other users is virtually non-existent.

It's a hot topic on the inland waterway forums, because a lot of us with canal boats actually want to move to HVO as it doesn't suffer from diesel bug and will happily sit in a tank for years without absorbing moisture like dino diesel, but you can't buy it in any easily usable form, I suspect the construction industry will face the same problem.

Never let a lack of infrastructure stop you from forcing a change onto the public if there's a tax to collect !
Title: Re: Red diesel ban.
Post by: Genem on January 28, 2022, 03:53:25 PM
^^^^ My red diesel supplier is reacting to the market and increasing its ability to supply HVO. I noted that one of the tanks on the delivery truck was HVO during our last delivery. The vehicle was carrying "Red", Kero and HVO.

Luckily for us "Red" will still be allowed for domestic power, we use it in the Genny, together with a bank of Solar panels , a pile of 24x2v "traction" batteries that make up a 48v storage and the clever box that controls it all, sends 240v to the house and turns on the genny if the battery is getting too low.   
Title: Re: Red diesel ban.
Post by: LN11AAB498A on January 28, 2022, 04:18:47 PM
Considering their apparent modest size, the Green party and its promotors shout very loudly and get heard. The governing powers, whether Blue or Red, panic and worry votes will be lost and so policy's change to accommodate that very loud minority, while the silent majority just meekly do as they are told.

I don't doubt the sincerity of many politicians, but I`m left feeling it`s all a giant short-term tactical game for power.

I don't know enough to agree or disagree with the global warming argument, but I believe that in its 4.5 billion years the Earth has seen extreme weather changes without the help of man.

The debate is evidently stacked against those who would argue against it, because if they dare to deviate from the generally accepted and populist view they are immediately belittled and vilified. You'd have to be a pretty thick-skinned scientist to poke your head above that parapet.

I`m afraid we live in an age where to voice an opinion at odds with the mainstream is to open yourself to trolls and vilification. Free speech, I don't think so.

The Earth suffered its last Ice-Age 11,001 year's ago and many of those who know about this say its certain to happen again.  And because an Ice-Age is totally dependant on the Earths orbit nothing we do now can change that. What a comforting thought  :tiphat   
Title: Re: Red diesel ban.
Post by: Grandadrob on January 28, 2022, 04:33:04 PM
^^^^^^^ well put, I totally agree. I’ve had so many attempted lectures for daring to drive my old diesel Landy.
Apparently environmentalists are always right.  :stars
Title: Re: Red diesel ban.
Post by: Worf on January 28, 2022, 04:36:07 PM
^^^^^^^ well put, I totally agree. I’ve had so many attempted lectures for daring to drive my old diesel Landy.
Apparently environmentalists are always right.  :stars

Just tell them it contains no plastic or microchips and hasn't been recycled 5 times. :tiphat
Title: Re: Red diesel ban.
Post by: Neil Bymouth on January 28, 2022, 05:00:44 PM
Hear hear Fred.
Title: Re: Red diesel ban.
Post by: Rog-from-Bix on January 28, 2022, 05:28:15 PM
..... Drax, a big big mistake which will go down as such in history  :shakeinghead
Sat over 400 years of coal that can be made to burn with low emissions with great efficiency.

Can't do much about it, but I'll die knowing I was right.

 :wooly-jumper

I should state an interest I have shares in drax they are up 60% in the last year and the dividend yield is a healthy 3.20% so its been a good one to hold.
Title: Re: Red diesel ban.
Post by: Correus on January 28, 2022, 07:20:39 PM
There are videos showing dairy farmers taking their containers of milk out in the fields and dumping it.

Hi

That happened in UK many years ago ... sorry, I cant remember exactly when.

The following year, that land produces a record crop of grass.

I have read that an acre of land can produce 27 tons of bracken ... which is not good as animal feed, but surely it can be converted into heat?  On the other hand, it is reputed to be calcegenic (sp?), so maybe not a good idea to ramble through ... and it kills horses, although it takes a few years. I lost two horses, presumed due to bracken poisoning.

So turn pigs out onto bracken infested land, let them dig up the roots ... eat them before the bracken kills them.

602

Never heard what affect the milk had on the land.  However, the way it was dumped varied from place to place.  I saw vids where it was just dumped in the fields, some dumped it in trenches, some ni large holes dug for and so on.  Some farmers actually tried to give it away, but got in trouble for it. 
Title: Re: Red diesel ban.
Post by: Correus on January 28, 2022, 07:34:25 PM
Yeap the 'green' lie is hitting farmers hard. They swapped out all the 'bad' chemicals in fence posts about 6 years ago and replaced with with 'better, greener' ones. Now I rent my field to nextdoor, part of the deal is he maintains the fences. He refenced a 20+yearside, now I know they were quality posts as they were dropped off on my drive, I know they were put in correctly as I watched them go in from my office window. I have since watched each one of them fail. The old ones by the way I cut off the bottom rotted bits, repointed and use them on the chicken fences.

It's happening here as well.  I have personal experience with something similar.

Our house is about 135 years old (I know, that's nothing when it comes to the UK).  Anyway... it took us almost 4 years to prep and paint the outside.  Part of the prep work was patching &/or replacing parts of the outer crown molding.  We were fortunate enough to find some modern crown molding that was so similar you couldn't tell the difference between it and the original, especially when it's 20'+ above grade.  We chose to go with a "green" company's offering - it was pre-coated with an eco friendly, heavy-duty exterior primer.

In less that 2 years after installing and painting the new, eco friendly product failed - miserably.  The original wood molding, with traditional, heavy-duty exterior primer still looks good.

Not only did the eco product fail, the wood the eco friendly primer covered has rotted worse than any of the original wood had roted.
Title: Re: Red diesel ban.
Post by: Matt Reeves on January 28, 2022, 07:44:11 PM
There generally seems to two differing viewpoints appearing here

First those who understand and acknowledge that post industrial revolution human activity is having a detrimental effect on the environment whilst also recognizing that some alternatives which are promoted as being "green" are anything but, aka Greenwash.

Second those who doubt that "climate change" is actually real or something we should be concerned about and bemoan changes to the post war obsession with modern agriculture, chemicals, building and "growth" in all areas.

I wonder which viewpoint history will prove correct?
Title: Re: Red diesel ban.
Post by: Neil Bymouth on January 28, 2022, 08:03:22 PM
What goes round comes round.
Title: Re: Red diesel ban.
Post by: Correus on January 28, 2022, 08:21:45 PM
Considering their apparent modest size, the Green party and its promotors shout very loudly and get heard. The governing powers, whether Blue or Red, panic and worry votes will be lost and so policy's change to accommodate that very loud minority, while the silent majority just meekly do as they are told.

I don't doubt the sincerity of many politicians, but I`m left feeling it`s all a giant short-term tactical game for power.

I don't know enough to agree or disagree with the global warming argument, but I believe that in its 4.5 billion years the Earth has seen extreme weather changes without the help of man.

The debate is evidently stacked against those who would argue against it, because if they dare to deviate from the generally accepted and populist view they are immediately belittled and vilified. You'd have to be a pretty thick-skinned scientist to poke your head above that parapet.

I`m afraid we live in an age where to voice an opinion at odds with the mainstream is to open yourself to trolls and vilification. Free speech, I don't think so.

The Earth suffered its last Ice-Age 11,001 year's ago and many of those who know about this say its certain to happen again.  And because an Ice-Age is totally dependant on the Earths orbit nothing we do now can change that. What a comforting thought  :tiphat   

Sounds to me yu have a rather good grasp on what's going on.   :tiphat

The Earth has gone through many, MANY climate changes since the beginning.  Some have been mild and some drastic, yet virtually all took place before humans started recording history.  The evidence is easily found through the geological record.  IIRC, based on my studies in college, most of these changes took place about every 5,000 years +/- 1,000 years - and yes, the pole shifts can be seen as well.

I have heard the doom-and-gloom of global warming for about as long as I can remember.  Just look at ALL of the climate 'predictions' over the past several decades - remember Al Gore (?), not a single prediction he pushed has come true.  Following is a link to some of those "predictions" and their years.  It's just insane how gullible people area!! 

https://www.aei.org/carpe-diem/50-years-of-failed-doomsday-eco-pocalyptic-predictions-the-so-called-experts-are-0-50/

What bothers me most is that everyone who buys into this "green" stuff so much only seem to be concerned about CO2 emissions, with a few screaming about other pollutants - you know... plastic straws are 'bad' but the plastic wrapping is okay.  Most of these people scream and shout that it's all the 'West's' fault, therefore we must pay to fix it. 

When it comes to the climate and environment when are they going to start screaming and yelling at the Far East - especially China...

I'm tired of hearing it... and it's even harder to listen to all f these politicians who tell us how 'bad' we are and tge 'we' need to clean up our acts when they continue flying all over the world, in private jets, attending all of these climate meetings.  "Rules for thee, not for me".
Title: Re: Red diesel ban.
Post by: ChrisJC on January 28, 2022, 09:24:55 PM
We are almost certainly changing the climate.
The climate has also changed due to natural causes many times in the geological past.

But remember that large scale climate change, regardless of cause, has been catastrophic for many life forms. Look out of your window for a dinosaur for example. Or if you live in the UK, a woolly mammoth.

It is going to be bad news, catastrophic in fact. I hope it happens after my lifetime.

Chris.
Title: Re: Red diesel ban.
Post by: Grandadrob on January 28, 2022, 09:55:28 PM
The idea of “Project fear” has been used for decades for many causes. We saw it used during the Brexit debate. We have seen it used during the Covid pandemic. Common sense will always overcome this sooner or later.
The “man made” global warming brigade also use this tool, by predicting more and more dire future events hoping to scare us into their camp because the proof of their predictions is missing.
Fortunately there are folk (on this forum) who explain my views, much more eloquently than I could write. Our way of life is being ruined in the name of yet another project fear. As Correus said what about China, Russia, India, the real polluters.. They don’t need project fear, they just control their citizens.
I am looking forward to what is left of my life because know that project fear never prevails.

Title: Re: Red diesel ban.
Post by: Correus on January 28, 2022, 10:19:49 PM
Wolly Mammoth bones, skulls and tusks have been found within 20 miles of our house here in Kansas.

As to looking out your widow and seeing any... there is a new company called 'Colossal' that is making the claim they are bring them back.
Title: Re: Red diesel ban.
Post by: Genem on January 28, 2022, 11:40:40 PM
Wolly Mammoth bones, skulls and tusks have been found within 20 miles of our house here in Kansas.

As to looking out your widow and seeing any... there is a new company called 'Colossal' that is making the claim they are bring them back.

No chance, a fantasy. Yes they have recovered DNA from permafrost preserved bodies but that is a long long way from having a live animal wandering about.

Interesting reading on this and other chilly subjects... http://siberiantimes.com/home/

 
Title: Re: Red diesel ban.
Post by: Worf on January 29, 2022, 12:03:05 AM
Going back to red diesel !

I see that it can still be used
"To propel passenger, freight or maintenance vehicles designed to run on rail tracks"
No mention that it has to be actually running on rails though, so how about this conversion https://totalrailsolutions.co.uk/on-track-plant/land-rover-4x4-110-defender-type-9c-rrv/
Title: Re: Red diesel ban.
Post by: Correus on January 29, 2022, 12:50:03 AM
No chance, a fantasy. Yes they have recovered DNA from permafrost preserved bodies but that is a long long way from having a live animal wandering about.

Interesting reading on this and other chilly subjects... http://siberiantimes.com/home/

Oh, I agree!  Gotta wonder if they ever watched any of the Jurassic Park movies.
Title: Re: Red diesel ban.
Post by: Correus on January 29, 2022, 12:57:53 AM
Man... I almost forgot...

Within minutes of my post made around 16:19 today, the following commercial played on TV.

https://youtu.be/TpKlqdn6kXs
Title: Re: Red diesel ban.
Post by: w3526602 on January 29, 2022, 06:52:13 AM
Hi,

replying to nobody in particular ...

... Fossil fuel? Use it or loose it?

Going political (sorry) .. I live in (locally) a coaliton.(sp?) That way nobody gets the government they voted for,  and the party who came third gets a disproportionate slice of the power. I'm not going to argue if that is a good or bad thing.

602
Title: Re: Red diesel ban.
Post by: Genem on January 29, 2022, 10:27:31 AM

... Fossil fuel? Use it or loose it?


I have a vague memory of a sign on the back of a Scammell Explorer along the lines of "Improving Road Safety, using up the worlds supply of Petrol as quickly as possible".
Title: Re: Red diesel ban.
Post by: Grandadrob on January 30, 2022, 12:01:55 PM
Ah that’s my response to folk saying why do you own 3 Land Rovers…..  I am stopping 2 of them being driven at any one time.  :neener