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[LN11AAB498A]

I`ve long been a fan of new technologies like Synthetic & Hydrogen fuels as a replacement for fossil fuel. And never liked electric batteries because of how they are made. And because of recent news (see below), I remain hopeful that these nasty things will have a shorter than expected future.

In the news recently we heard that German car manufacturers are "pushing back" on their governments deadline to eliminate the ICE in, I think, 2035. A formidable lobby group which their government would want listen to.

These are a few comments copied from the Reuters news agency.

Major automakers, including BMW and Audi are developing hydrogen fuel-cell passenger vehicle prototypes

They are hedging their bets, calculating that a change in political winds could shift the balance towards hydrogen

Global auto hub Germany is in sharp focus. It is already betting billions on hydrogen fuel in sectors like steel and chemicals to meet climate targets, and closely-fought elections this month could see the Greens enter the coalition government and further push the technology.

BMW is hydrogen's biggest proponent among Germany's carmakers, charting a path to a mass-market model around 2030. The company also has one eye on shifting hydrogen policies in Europe and in China, the world's largest car market.

For years Japanese carmakers Toyota Nissan and Honda and South Korea's Hyundai, were alone in developing and pushing hydrogen fuel-cell cars, but now they have company.

China is expanding its hydrogen fuelling infrastructure

The EU wants to build more hydrogen fuelling stations for commercial vehicles.

"It's not out of bounds to think if the (German) Greens come into power they could accelerate the push to adopt regulations favouring hydrogen fuel-cell cars."

It seems, I hope, the Electric battery era might not be so very long lived, with the materials needed to make batteries being so unsustainable might they yet become just another old technology 

If the ICE is to be saved for future vehicle manufacturing then synthetic & hydrogen fuels could be it`s saviour. And while hydrogen won`t help our old vehicles, synthetic would.

It`s not 2 late

[Alan Drover]

I'm all for it!!!!

[genocache]

Hydrogen needs to be generated onboard, not stored in tanks.  IMHO.

[DogDave]

The more I look at this the more I’m convinced Battery powered cars are likely the Betamax of modern times. Those that have parted with cold cash will never want to admit being sold a pup but time will tell.

Hydrogen has potential but synthetic petrol is already a carbon neutral reality, price is holding back slightly but if it had the subsidy wind and solar did it wouldn’t be far away even at current scale - just have a look at what the motorbike manufacturers and Porsche are doing with it.

Even if I’m totally wrong and we are all destined to drive golf carts I reckon we will be alright given the traction engine lads and lasses are still running on coal even in 2023 - should be enough fuel for all our lifetimes

[waterover]

Never understood why the world never took up the easiest of them all!!??

https://www.alcoholcanbeagas.com/

Am I missing something as to why this never was embraced?? Decades worth of proof, and only minor modifications needed.
seems such a simple solution.

[Wittsend]

I predict that in a few years time the ambulance chaser lawyers will be advertising "Were you sold an electric car - we make any claim" having moved on from diesel car claims 

 

[Alan Drover]

....and webuyanycar.com will become webuyanycarexceptelectricjunk.com

[crumbly65]

....and webuyanycar.com will become webuyanycarexceptelectricjunk.com

^^^^

[w3526602]

Hi,

Probably OT, but I read somewhere, about the Hindenberg disaster, that a radio reporter commented on the flames burning RED.

Hydrogen burns BLUE.

However, the "aluminisied" paint that coated the envelope was akin to rocket fuel.

602

PS.  As a 28 year old apprentice, I worked at Metal Propellers ... who made the props for the R101 ... and never looked back.

[Craig T]

Don't be too hard on electric vehicles.

They don't solve all the problems, they are not suitable for everyone and yes, the lifespan and costs / environmental impact of making them is questionable but they do work for some people.

I have thought of one myself. I drive everyday 20 miles to work and 20 miles home again. For me they would be great for that journey. I could charge once a week maybe at home overnight and probably save quite some money over my little petrol car that does 45mpg.
I'm lucky that I have off-road parking and a good power supply so a charger would be easy.

I haven't changed as the purchase cost of an electric car is more than I need to spend right now. Will they become really cheap on the second hand market in the future, only time will tell but I suspect a cheap electric car in the future will be very worn out and the cost of replacing the batteries prohibitively expensive.

Having said that, my advice is drive one if you haven't. I hear so many people bad mouthing electric cars and when you ask if they have driven one, they say no! They are very nice things to drive. Quiet, apart from tyre noise, smooth, comfortable etc. Maybe not a drivers car but for the 99% of the population that just wants to get to their location they are pretty much ideal.

Hydrogen has been around for a long time. Simply pumping it as a gas into an engine doesn't work, it's not very explosive really. You can use it to make a fuel cell, generating electricity and that is actually a more efficient way of using the fuel but I think there are around 15 filling stations in the entire UK so unless you have one on your doorstep, a non starter.

Maybe the car itself is heading for the history books. So many futuristic films have a central transport system in place. You call a vehicle, it arrives, it takes you to your destination automatically and you get out, the vehicle drives off. Maybe that is the future?

Unless anyone invents teleportation. Way to kill the entire car, transport, aviation, holiday business in one foul swoop!

Craig.

[Alan Drover]

It's the brainwashing that they are the answer to all problems when in actual fact they are totally impractical for anything except driving in city centres. Try towing a large caravan behind one and they can't be towed because there's no neutral, another stupid idea. Electric motors don't need a gearbox as they develop maximum torque at zero rpm (I believe but stand corrected) but with the problems they cause when they break down, being able to isolate the wheels from the motor would make sense. Typically not enough research has been done into them.

[LN11AAB498A]

Don't be too hard on electric vehicles.
Craig.

Hi Craig, a thoughtful & balanced comment.

My objection to electric is not idealistic, it is solely based on the manufacture of the battery, environmental damage caused by mining lithium and the drain on the electricity network during peak time charging. Where is all this electricity to come from?  My energy provider has tempted me to "switch off" during peak periods several times with money-back deals, why would they do that if the network wasn`t already under pressure?

And that's before all the practical problems are dealt with - dealing with old toxic batteries, having enough charging points & the time waiting / queuing at a charging station.

As I understand it, a Hydrogen fuel-cell can direct it`s power to an electric motor, thereby removing the need for a battery, sounds good to me. Of course I`m not suggesting it`s simple, the boffins will need to make some magic happen, but if the facts of my original post are correct, then the big boys have already started, investing big & committed to making it happen.

PS
I`m too much of a petrol-head to change anyway, I like the sound of an engine 

[MrTDiy]

I bought a BMW i3 in order to get rid of my wife’s dreadful Evoque that was heading for the end of warranty and there was no way I was taking that risk with the trouble we'd had with it.

It works incredibly well for 85% of what we need….everywhere is a 20 mile round trip from us, work food, coffee etc…so even though it’s an early one with a very small battery it is perfect for us. The battery loses a lot in the winter although preconditioning it helps both ends. We've never used public charging, it charges overnight on economy 7.

I've always thought that if it all goes wrong I'm having the battery for the house either in or out of the car or either in or out of a series Land Rover in some sort of conversion.

I feel guilty about the journey the battery raw materials have been on and the effects with their extraction. I'm hoping synthetic fuels, hydrogen are the future. In the meantime I’ll be using it efficiently and I have my 2a with a 200tdi which is in place should we lose diesel and I need to rely on veg oil to remain independent.

It will be a fascinating next 10,years if I'm lucky enough to experience it

[Alan Drover]

Defrosting a normal vehicle is simply done by running the engine and turning the heater and or heated screens on. How is an electric vehicle defrosted without using battery power which will decrease the range considerably I'd imagine?
Petrol and diesel will be around for a considerable time.

[MrTDiy]

The defrosting process all takes place….for me that is, whilst it is still plugged in so I time it that the car has a properly warmed battery and interior cleared screen etc…. Ready for me to drive off…. It's wonderful….I do the same thing the other end of the day and yes it does use a little battery to do this but I've never noticed it being significant

One Has to manage the battery, I find cruise control seems to be very efficient. Fold your wet coat inside out and stick in the boot to avoid the need to defog the windscreen. I choose cross country routes so I can drive more slowly and not be pushed by faster cars….in the summer it's nice to listen to the birds as you drive….and of course surprise the cyclists who often seem to be be very unaware of what is behind them…..I wind the window down and cough to get their attention or drive on the gravelly bits to make tyre noise. I am reassured that if I overtake them on a hill and they are working and breathing hard that my normal diesel emissions won't discomfort them.

I just love cars of all sorts and there is a role for all sorts of things and fuels on our roads. People used to say that they are very dangerous as they are so quiet….but you'd check there wasn't a push bike coming before crossing the road wouldn’t you? I haven’t heard it being said for the last year as so now. I put a great deal of thought into what we buy and for us it works very well. People have to do their own research and make their own decisions after they have carried out due diligence….nobody else is going to look after me and I wouldn’t expect them to.