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Main Section => Welcome to our virtual Pub Meeting ... => Topic started by: 2286 on November 12, 2019, 02:16:24 PM
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I have been made aware of a sankey trailer for sale locally.
It is totally standard and has the large ring hitch intended for use with a nato hook or hitch?
I do not have such a coupling, my vehicle is fitted with a dixon bate 50mm ball and jaw pintle combination.
Can anyone please tell me the ring hitch dimensions inner and outer diameter and thickness.
Does anyone know if it is legal or safe to tow a sankey on road with a combination hitch and not a nato hook?
Is the combination hitch jaw large enough to accommodate the sankey ring and let it function as it should.
I think from memory the one on the back of the land rover has a 50mm ball on the end of the shared pin for the jaw, the one on the front is more recent and has the 50mm ball fixed and a separate removable pin.
I know nato hooks sell for more than the trailers!
I remember the days when sankeys had a nato hook on the back for coupling another one to it, for that mini road train effect.
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I was told a NATO ring hitch is too thick to fit a standard jaw pintle hitch. The thickness of the ring prevents the pin fitting.... I haven't physically tried personally. There used to be adaptors available to fit a 50mm ball hitch to a NATO ring.
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I know nato hooks sell for more than the trailers!
I remember the days when sankeys had a nato hook on the back for coupling another one to it, for that mini road train effect.
I have a NATO hitch for sale - £40 that I'm selling on behalf of a member. They are heavy and I'm not inclined to post or courier, buyer collects or some sort of forum relay.
(http://www.series2club.co.uk/gallery/technical/images/NATO-a.jpg)
(http://www.series2club.co.uk/gallery/technical/images/NATO-b.jpg)
(http://www.series2club.co.uk/gallery/technical/images/NATO-c.jpg)
Note, it's not the swively type - not really needed on the road.
Way back at the 2006 annual club rally a member demonstrated the Sankey trailer train with 3 linked up behind his 109 FFR. Sadly I can't find a picture of this (rare) event :'(
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nLAJ47991d8
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That's just showing off :first
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As far as I'm aware none of the alternatives work properly, (or even at all) with a "Sankey" trailer other than the proper NATO hitch. Alan's one is an early version and would look good on an early vehicle. As a "fixed" version its fine with a "narrow track" early trailer, with a swivelling ring. Not recommended with a later "wide-track" version which needs a swivelling hitch.
Bradley still make the NATO hitch btw.
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nLAJ47991d8
Bet he couldn't reverse it!
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That tow hitch for sale in its present state was considered dangerous & requires two modifications.
In the event of the Mills pin failing the catch operating lever could slide out. A new thicker washer was to be welded to the end of the catch operating lever. EMER VEHICLES GENERAL U 207 Mod Instr No.1 March 1955
Replacing the trigger catch Mills pin from 3/16" diam to 1/4" & building up the hook entrance to resist the towing eye from sliding upwards. EMER GENERAL U 207 Mod Instr No.2 December 1955
I have diagrams if anyone wants to do the mods.
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Can anyone please tell me the ring hitch dimensions inner and outer diameter and thickness.
This is from Defence Standard 25-6/Issue 3 Nov 1973 Towing Vehicles and Towed Equipment. Although curiously was withdrawn Aug 2000.
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Many thanks all, particularly fv for the technical drawing which is exactly what I needed to know.
I read my 1971 sankey manual and it has all sorts of user data, like 45mph max speed, fixed hook only, 400kg unladen!
Are the swiveling type intended for fixed draw bar item only, hence them having a lock off?
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A trailer with a swivelling eye must be towed by a non-swivelling hitch.
A trailer with a non-swivelling eye must be towed by a swivelling hitch.
The later NATO hitches have the option to swivel or not swivel & to ensure that it doesn't swivel when it isn't meant to, the latching mechanism must be engaged with its large pin & retained a with a small R-clip.
Whatever swivel arrangement the jaws must be locked closed with a pin. This used to be a large R-clip but this no longer acceptable as latching pin must be used so that it can't accidentally get knocked or vibrated out of position. These safety clips are often referred to as "nappy pins".
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I remember the days when sankeys had a nato hook on the back for coupling another one to it, for that mini road train effect.
I stand to be corrected, but certainly my 1953 narrow track doesn't have a NATO hitch on the back, nor do those in the "road train" video.
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Hi.
In a previous existence.I cobbled up a "thingy" that bolted under my Sankey's draw bar using the original bolt holes. A length of steel pipe projected forward to hold a standard 50mm coupling. Bolting the hitch under the trainer draw-bar meant it was about the right height for my Landy's dropped tow-ball. It got me to France (Swansea to St Malo via Dover/Calais.
As the brakes were no longer operable, I stripped of all the rods and whipple-tree/swngle ttree ... everything was rusted solid anyway.
My understanding is that a small Sankey had a MGW of 1250kg, and my local scrapyard weighed it for me ... 400kg unladed. Un unbraked trailer may not weigh more than 750kg, so I had a payload of 350kg, which I suspect is more than you should carry in the back of your SWB. I also weighed my 1957 S1 (Marsland S3 chassis and S2 engine, with home brewed bulkhead. A google for
FEU254 IMAGES should find it, although a later owner painted it red. Note the lack of bulkhead vents). Memory says FEU tipped the scales at a smidgen over 1400kg, so she was limited to a trailer with 700kg ULW.
My understanding (but hey, what do I know) is that a ring-hitch should pull on the pin, and over-run against the "bottom" of the yoke ... it tends to get clunky.
I'm happy to be corrected.
602
PS... I understand that a standard Sankey hitch can be mounted under the draw-bar, allowing standard civvy fork to be bolted to a Landy drop-plate. Discuss!
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With the ring dimensions committed to memory I had a measure up and the combination hitch will not accept the ring.
The pin to rear face being less than 40mm.
I do have a pintle only if I can remember where! But the pin is 1 inch at most.
Re nato hook, I am reluctant to have 3 type of hitch. I have seen folks in the past that have a nato on a separate bracket to interchange with the adjustable drop plate.
Re ride height is the sankey designed to be level or there abouts assuming hook is bolted directly to cross member without drop plate, tow vehicle has 7.50s and trailer has 6.50.
602 I think i have seen these adapted to take a 50mm hitch, a sandwich type arrangement.
On the subject of sankey brakes are ANY parts common to swb land rover or a thwaites dumper, the mechanical expanders adjusters and shoes?
I had a glance at a military land rovers book and noted a red arrows lightweight with a 4 height position fixed pintle, would this be for taxi ing aircraft not towing trailers?
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I stand to be corrected, but certainly my 1953 narrow track doesn't have a NATO hitch on the back, nor do those in the "road train" video.
I suppose if you were really pulling a train of trailers, or even just two trailers, you wouldn't be going seriously off-road where you would need the angle to articulate with a swivelling hitch?
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Clifford
I think I have seen both options. Pintle and nato on trailer rear. Maybe it depended on the regiment and how affluent they were or how many they had in stores!
I am guessing that the 45mph max speed was due to the hitch being strong but not particularly refined?
Army trailers now seem to be Penman, has there been a take over or a change of supplier?
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Many many years ago I used to deliver road towed compressors to people who had hired them. One of them had somehow lost the ring from it's towing hitch and had a huge 4 inch ring hoop thing welded on to the broken end of the sliding brake mechanism. Like a Sankey ring hitch but a bigger hole. This was a VERY sloppy fit in the pin hitch on the van and being a childish 17 year old I'd merrily jiggle the throttle to hear the impressive banging noises coming from the hitch.
Anyway, it never broke and I'm still using the pin hitch on my land rover.
Does that help at all? :stars
(https://i.postimg.cc/PrZt3fMy/CC933935-D055-40-FC-869-F-77-C4-F6108-CF1.jpg)
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Your pintle looks like the heavy duty type with extra capacity over mine between the pin and the back face, reinforced too.
The sankey trailer hitch is large presumably to have commonality with the rest of the army fleet although I am aware that that come in larger sizes too and this is the baby.
The sloppy fit, banging you mention is ok for moving stuff around a yard or field but not what I would want for on road going any distance.
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The sloppy fit, banging you mention is ok for moving stuff around a yard or field but not what I would want for on road going any distance.
This was charging up and down Swaledale, but it was a very long time ago. ;)
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I did consider using a bow shackle to shift it initially.
Oddjob is your adjustable height drop plate mounted upside to allow for the removable towbar or back rack that plugs into the square socket?
Just out of interest what rear door do you have fitted as i have to watch my tailgate does not hit mine when it opens.
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There is a good reason for the rotating hitch......
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And an example of a Sankey 'train'
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I did consider using a bow shackle to shift it initially.
Oddjob is your adjustable height drop plate mounted upside to allow for the removable towbar or back rack that plugs into the square socket?
Just out of interest what rear door do you have fitted as i have to watch my tailgate does not hit mine when it opens.
I didn’t think it was upside down?!
The two little tabs on it fit the top two small holes in the crossmember and then the four big holes meet the two big holes in the crossmember and two big holes in the angle iron reinforcement. Is there another way to mount them?
It has a drop down tailgate and it just clears it. The square mount is a 2” receiver and I have a 50mm towball that plugs into it.
:cheers
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Re the picture of the sankey by exile.
Does or has anyone used a pintle from the rear of a sankey to bolt onto the land rover and use as the main coupling to accept the sankey ring with the 75mm centre hole.
OR is it intended for emergency off highway use.
Does anyone have the dims or a sketch of the pintle, inc bolt patterns?
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Hi,
The problem I encountered (coz I'm a cheapskate) was fitting a coupling on the trailer in lieu of the military ring (which is too thick to fit into the normal civilian pin hitch.liaan
S2
May be have an engineer, with facilities, within our group, that can think of a way of modifying the NATO ring to fit int a civilian pin-hitch "fork".
If you go the easy way, and remove the NATO coupling assembly, and fit a simple 50mm hitch like I did, you will have no brakes, which limits the trailer's MGW to 750kg ... effectively reducing the payload to about 5cwt. I'd suggest taking both your tow-car and the trailer to a public weighbridge, to get a chitty confirming the unladen weights of both .... then calculate how much you can carry in the trailer.
Remember, all trailers must display, in the prescribed manner, their MGW. I presume a SANKEY is too old to need a VIN plate. If it does have a VIN plate, research the legality of it requiring a new plate, if towed behind your 88". Then come and tell me!
602
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I would advise that you don't try and modify/engineer the NATO ring on the Sankey as you are limiting your choice of towing truck.
I would use the Dixon/Bate adjustable tow hitch bracket. I would then get a "slider" plate and fit a proper NATO hitch to that.
On another I would fit a standard (50mm) ball hitch. And if you need the pintle hitch they can come with the standard ball hitch combined, or you get another slider and fit a hitch to that.
Best of all worlds then ....
(http://www.series2club.co.uk/gallery/technical/images/towing_hitch_panda.jpg)
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Sankey don't have (or need) a VIN plate if they were made before 1980 as VIN plates weren't invented till then.
AFAIK Sankeys have a chassis plate in the position shown below.
(http://www.series2club.co.uk/gallery/technical/images/sankey_number.jpg)
Probably under about 20 layers of paint
There is also an MoD Sankey manual.
I think anyone behaving properly and not visibly overloaded or carrying a dangerous load won't attract the authorities attention.
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Thanks to a Lt Colonel who used to go to the same pub as I did and who was at the nearby base I have an MOD manual for a Sankey. I sold the trailer a few years ago but kept the manual.
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I remember a sanky train of about 30 trailers at Waterbeach about 89.
REME got bored and were playing but I think it was a “knocker” , some sort of 10 ton truck that I can never remember the name of, towing.
There were only 2 knockers left as they were being phased out for TM66’s.
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Sankey don't have (or need) a VIN plate if they were made before 1980 as VIN plates weren't invented till then.
AFAIK Sankeys have a chassis plate in the position shown below.
(http://www.series2club.co.uk/gallery/technical/images/sankey_number.jpg)
Probably under about 20 layers of paint
There is also an MoD Sankey manual.
I think anyone behaving properly and not visibly overloaded or carrying a dangerous load won't attract the authorities attention.
I like your hitch set up Alan, it certainly seems the most practical solution.
The plate you picture is actually the body tag, the chassis plate is below that on the chassis and gives chassis number, military registration, model, weight etc. The only thing is these are alloy and tend to be in fairly poor condition.
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Hi,
Note that the towing eye on the NATO hitch has a "thicker ring" than will fit inside most (all?) civilian pin-hitches. Check this before spending your "hard earned".
Just in case there is somebody who doesn't know, ring hitches are intended to pull on the pin, and push on the V of the coupling jaw. This will result in a clunk, as your foot moves on and off the accelerator., and can be quite interesting if you are at full-lock, and have a well laden trailer, at the time.
602
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I stand corrected - I maybe will have a closer look.
My point being that people shouldn't have any worries towing a Sankey, not when you see what some idiots are towing and have loaded up.
:RHD
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In the late 60s in PNG I managed to rebuild a WW2 Jeep trailer which I had found in the bush. I tried to tow it behind my 80", fitted with a standard,
not Land Rover pintle hook . The clanging was horrendous.
All the government vehicles including the army's used to be auctioned off when they reached 40000 miles. A lot of army stuff also used to get dumped.
That's where I found one of these Land Rover towing hooks. which was a vast improvement. I later transferred it to another vehicle, that I stupidly
sold with it still attached.
.W.
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Thanks biloxi
Helpful insight and diagram.
Is this taken from land rover optional parts catalogue.
I note the except 109 sw exception, so that suggests that 109's other than that had side fuel tanks not rear, not sure what date they moved.
An earlier comment said used fixed hook with swivelling trailer hitch and vice versa.
Is it possible to tell if a trailer is fixed or swivelling at a glance?
Were they the same but just used a lockout?
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Thanks biloxi
Helpful insight and diagram.
Is this taken from land rover optional parts catalogue.
I note the except 109 sw exception, so that suggests that 109's other than that had side fuel tanks not rear, not sure what date they moved.
An earlier comment said used fixed hook with swivelling trailer hitch and vice versa.
Is it possible to tell if a trailer is fixed or swivelling at a glance?
Were they the same but just used a lockout?
From the 1961 parts catalogue, part no 4187.
..W.
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I note the except 109 sw exception, so that suggests that 109's other than that had side fuel tanks not rear, not sure what date they moved.
Hi,
"The Aunt" was a 1959 (I think) LWB, adapted to carry "arial erection" stuff for the BBC, and had an side fill fuel tank. Memory (getting vague) tells me that the big filler pipe exited through "different from normal" holes in the bulkhead and rear wing. I fitted a different tub, which entailed drawing/making a drilling jig, to cut the holes. Unfortunately, that drawing faded off my files when I bought a new lap-top to convert to W10.
Do not dump knackered underseat fill fuel tanks without hacking the filler hole out of the top of the tank, so it can be moved to another tank .... although I assume that a side filler could be cobbled onto the top of any other tank. ???
Er ... who makes fuel Series fuel tanks ... and would they make "specials"?
602
602