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[LN11AAB498A]

If you thought it couldn`t get any worse, now we`re told ....

"Electric cars cause twice as much stress to roads as petrol equivalents, which could increase the number of potholes amid a growing crisis in Britain, according to a survey. A study led by the University of Leeds found the average electric car puts 2.24 times more stress on roads than a similar petrol vehicle - and 1.95 more than a diesel............ experts warned multi-storey car parks could be at risk of damage or even collapsing due to the weight of electric vehicles."

https://www.thisismoney.co.uk/money/electriccars/article-12237529/Britains-pothole-crisis-worse-electric-cars.html

And if EV cars are doing that, how much more damage must EV lorries & buses be doing 

(Controversy Alert)       Charge a proportionate level of VED on all EV`s and use it to pay for the damage they cause 

[Alan Drover]

Agree and fuel duty must be levied on electricity used to charge them. At a domestic property a separate meter would be installed at the owner's expense and fuel duty added on to the bill.

[dartymoor]

I think this "study" should be read with a dose of salt handy.

There's a huge amount of FUD being published now that's are demonising EVs, and it's not hard to be cynical about the oil industry funding such things.

'd encourage anyone reading such articles to put on a pair of sceptical spectacles before reading any article about electric vehicles that are strongly negative, and those that are strongly positive. If you bother to read them at all. Every publication is desparate for readers so rarely check sources these days - proper journalism is almost dead. The Telegraph is no longer a particularly trustable source of information and is often very biased to the right.

The truth is likely somewhere in the middle, as with most things. EV's will probably attract some taxation in the near future once the encouragement bubble runs out of air.

[Alan Drover]

All VED zero rated vehicles except historic will pay VED from  1/4/2025 including all electric things and it's retrospective.

[AlexB]

The telegraph has never been a trustworthy source of info! (better than the mail, though!!)

Interesting points about the weight though. However, unless newly constructed (or within the last few years) chances are that most are going to get to the end of their design life before they get full of EVs
The extra wear and tear on the roads might well be offset by the reduction in oil leaks

I wonder what the average / mean life span of an EV is predicted to be. If you look round scrappers nowadays, the vast majority have been scrapped because the electronic chips have reached the end of their life cycle, rather than tinworm, and therefore are not economic to repair

I am still of the opinion that a 20 year old vehicle that can still be repaired without removing the body, and which doesn't have all the "too clever by far" electronics in it, is more sustainable than an EV. But, as long as there are children to mine lithium and the propaganda keeps being written and believed folk will buy them and keep the shareholders happy.

Not for me.

[Alan Drover]

Fossil fuels will be around for a long time yet.

[LN11AAB498A]

I think this "study" should be read with a dose of salt handy.

There's a huge amount of FUD being published now that's are demonising EVs, and it's not hard to be cynical about the oil industry funding such things.

'd encourage anyone reading such articles to put on a pair of sceptical spectacles before reading any article about electric vehicles that are strongly negative, and those that are strongly positive. If you bother to read them at all. Every publication is desparate for readers so rarely check sources these days - proper journalism is almost dead. The Telegraph is no longer a particularly trustable source of information and is often very biased to the right.

The truth is likely somewhere in the middle, as with most things. EV's will probably attract some taxation in the near future once the encouragement bubble runs out of air.

Hi dartymoor,
The oil industry doesn`t need to fund anything in a vane attempt to keep the petrol flowing, they have already lost that battle. The question is, what will replace it.

Being naturally sceptical I don`t believe all the political guff that this current kind of EV is going to save the world.

This study has given its verdict and common sense would support the idea that significant extra weight (roughly twice as heavy as standard models) will have a negative impact on tarmac and high-rise structures. Now I`m not trying to appear clever, this hadn`t occurred to me before reading the study.

The University of Leeds completed the study, and using "the 'fourth power formula' - a method adopted by highways engineers and researchers to assess damage on road surfaces caused by heavy vehicles. It reportedly means that if weight on a vehicle's axle is doubled, it can cause 16 times the amount of damage to a road", (and of course I understood every word  )

I don`t accept the premise that truth must always be somewhere in the middle, why shouldn't the truth about EVs, potholes & multi-storey car parks be exactly as we have read it 

[MrTDiy]

What a very poor article. Think I would prefer to read the original report than someone’s interpretation of the report. And perhaps we should have a bash electric cars section on this website forum so people air their anger about other cars and keep it to themselves. I want to read about our series 2’s …..ok and series 3’s. My evil BMW i3 all electric weighs 1195kg what do our series 2's weigh and we don't pay tax and our vehicles sip petrol and diesel don't they….and they don't leak on the tarmac softening it wherever they rest.

Not sure the roads have ever been properly repaired ever since there was some sort of banking crisis, something to do with Iceland……I think our local council lost something like 12million with that one from memory. So we are running, in many places on repairs of repairs. All our cars have got heavier and wider. I have just been running through the weights of the more popular SUVs and car’s generally and then compared them with the cars of the '60's and 70's a mk2 escort weighed only 880kg. From the 80's Mk1 930kg but latest Golf 1400kg with more power and greater braking capacity.

Having said and annoyed by the bashing electric cars get on here by some……..it would seem sensible to tax cars on their weight because of the damage they do to our road system whether they are electric or ICE driven vehicles.

Perhaps vehicles over a certain weight should have an extra axle. Clearly power from the drivetrain also has an effect so all performance vehicles should be taxed accordingly…

I am very pleased that huge improvements have been made with emissions from cars, it's a pleasure to do my job these days which for part of it requires me for nearly an hour a day to be in close proximity to vehicles opening their doors to let out 'customers' and guiding them to sensible places to park. Over 8 years the difference has been remarkable and I now no longer have a cough at the end of each session. Just think if you lived in a city by a busy main road….I would be begging for people to go electric to save my and my children’s health. Yes of course there is tyre dust and a whole lot of other things people will now dig out to diss electric vehicles……but it's a good start.

[The Shed]

The carpark collapse was in New York and part of the reason given was the extra weight of battery powered vehicles.
Something else that needs looking into before we are forced into electric vehicles.

[DogDave]

Whether you like EVs or not physics is physics, heavier vehicles with the same number of axles do more damage than light. That’s why 4 wheel artic lorries used to pay more tax than 6 wheel. (I think they still do)

Part of a bigger picture for sure, but when comparing like for like (as opposed to comparing a 4x4 to a little hatchback) the EV will be heavier and will do more damage to the road.

[MrTDiy]

Are you sure the New York collapse was to do with Ev's……I’m not sure anything caught fire….so how can it have been!

Joking aside it is the responsibility of every property owner to check their condition of their structures and use accordingly. If this is the same collapse I read about it seemed to report that there were no recent building permits and it was built back in the 1920’s. I wonder how many multi-storey car parks are suffering from the emotive phrase 'concrete cancer' over here let alone having been designed for lighter vehicles. And I suppose we have the irony that cities are creating clean air zones encouraging ev's into the cities and small range electric vehicles don't have the range to get there and back without charging and there is no charging ….so the big ones have to find somewhere to park.

Listen I'm not blind and forgive me for getting angry at the anti ev opportunity with some on here….I'm really disappointed that electric cars have solved the range issue by getting so large. There is a place for electric cars esp in cities and for short journeys so let’s not throw them all out…and yes I'd be happy to pay for road tax…I use the roads I'm happy to pay…..long distance journeys are still best done by diesel where it properly warms up and you're out of the cities. Reducing Co2 is still important….Volvo went down the diesel hybrid rather than petrol hybrid……that seemed to make sense esp with the short shelf life of petrol and the need to reduce co2 emissions……but of course we know particulates harm people.

I'm shocked at the weight of 4x4'’s these days whatever their motive force is….I'd like to understand why from someone who knows about these things. Any automotive engineers on here.

I'm with Colin Chapman….simplify and add lightness Long live the Series 2

[ChrisJC]

I'm shocked at the weight of 4x4'’s these days whatever their motive force is….I'd like to understand why from someone who knows about these things. Any automotive engineers on here.

That's pretty evident I would have said - crash resistance and accessories. Crash resistance being the main one. Lots of steel is needed.

Chris.

[LN11AAB498A]

...................... forgive me for getting angry at the anti ev opportunity with some on here… I'm shocked at the weight of 4x4'’s ......I'm with Colin Chapman….simplify and add lightness ....

Hello MrTDiy 

I'm puzzled that you are "angry" and "annoyed "at "the anti ev opportunity with some on here" and you would like us to keep our views "to themselves". I`m sorry that you seem to be taking it as a personal assault. Thankfully this Virtual Pub Meeting is for anything, not just Series 2 stuff.

As for me, I have not been bashing electric cars, I am not against cars with electric motors, I am against electric batteries.

I firmly believe that one day a Hydrogen power-cell will power an electric motor and be mainstream, now that's where the money should be going, not these nasty batteries. Edit: I realize this is already on the road e.g. JCB, I was thinking about mass production.

You don`t need to look at the weights of SUVs. The report had compared vehicles of equal size when it said -  "Electric cars, which are roughly twice as heavy as standard models" e.g. a Mini EV would be roughly twice as heavy as a Mini with ICE. Ironically you've quoted this -  "I'm with Colin Chapman….simplify and add lightness". Well you can hardly say that of EVs

If we, and judging by this forum that is the majority, have been wrong when we talk about the massive opencast Lithium mines, how future generations will have to deal with old toxic batteries, about the problems of finding charging points, finding one that works, of having to download an App just to pay for the electric, about home charging if you don`t have private parking, about public money spent on subsidising these vehicle costs, if you believe that is all fiction, then you're free to put us right. Come back with facts that prove this is all wrong. Opinions are of course a very different matter and we are all entitled to have them.

I promise I won`t be angry with you, it`s the discussion, friendly disagreement, enlightenment of fact over fiction. Free speech and not personal attack, I hope I never do that 

[AlexB]

As a civil engineer working in highways for 4 decades plus, the advent of the super single wheel which replaced the double wheel axle, caused a huge amount of damage to roads
Manifests itself in lane 1 ruts on motorways fairly well.

[dartymoor]

What about volume of traffic?

Certainly my weekly visits to the city for work are a lot less busy than before Covid. I now WFH 4 days a week, and at least Exeter's traffic is a lot less suggesting that overall frequency has not regained anything like the levels of 2019 when I would often be stuck in traffic jams to the point I adjusted my hours to avoid the peaks.

Fewer trips means less wear on the roads, so heavier cars (which are heavier anyway due to safety and luxury improvements) are offset by not as many of them.

(Agree about the HGV damage from the Super single, AlexB.  See the roads around John o Groats for potholes. A local told me that was because the lorries use the Gills ferry because it's cheaper than Northlink, but those roads get far less maintenance)