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[crumbly65]

I know this subject about hoods comes up all the time, but here's where I am.

Some may recall that I posted some time back about needing a new hood on my 88".  Since owning my SeriesII, over the last 20 years I've put 2 new hoods on it, both from Exmoor Trim (ET).  The first one, purchased in July 2003, lasted 12 years and 4 months.  The vehicle was outside in all weathers, and I never treated the hood at all.

The next one, purchased in November 2015, has only lasted until now - 4 months short of 5 years!  Nothing has changed in either my usage or where my vehicle is kept.  What HAS changed, is the ET specification.

I quote from their website "We use a 100% Natural Cotton Fibre for Exmoor Canvas Hoods and we have a lot of input into this material at the point of production.  Exmoor's 18oz Natural Cotton Canvas over the years has changed with many of the old chemicals used in the past, no longer being used.

The chemicals we now use are very environmentally based and many are organic, for us this is a big factor and part of our environmental strategy.

We appreciate that this does reduce the lifespan of the product compared to the heavily treated canvas of the past."

So that explains my unhappiness with my 2nd tilt.  Also a very good example of buyer beware.  I mentioned to ET when I bought my 2nd tilt, that the hood seemed different, and though I wasn't completely happy with it, I wasn't unhappy enough to return it.  Had I known this is ET's policy, I would have gone elsewhere, and I will do so now.

The tilt bought in 2003 cost £201.00 plus carriage and lasted over 12 years, the one bought in 2015 has lasted less than 5 years and cost £320.00 plus carriage.  A new one is now £351.69 plus carriage.  I don't think I'll be buying another one from ET, environment notwithstanding.

I asked for a sample and price from Undercover Covers, and I'll post up how I get on.

[agg221]

Unfortunately, what you are probably seeing is the combined effect of three pieces of regulatory change.

The first was the updating of the biocide directive in 2003 which required all biocides to be on a particular list. The cost of placing a particular biocide on the list was £40,000 per annum for the registration which meant many effective biocides were withdrawn. This means many products which are inherently biodegradable now biodegrade much faster than they did before.
The second was the volatile organic content directive of 2010. This placed restrictions on the addition of any organic solvent with a boiling point below (from memory) 156degC. This further reduced the effectiveness of treatments and chemicals which were still alllowed but would not dissolve in water could no longer be applied.
The third is the voluntary 'sunset date' on the use of perfluorooctanoates which was around 2016 (they are legislated out from this July). These were the chemicals used in Scotchguard and other water repellent treatments. They are bio-accumulative, although not actually proven harmful last time I checked so were withdrawn.

The problem with making any object out of something organic (in the naturally grown sense) is that there is a natural system in place designed to decompose it. Organisms evolve to grow. Other organisms evolve to feed off the dead tissue. Trying to make something out of wool, cotton etc. is therefore a battle against those organisms. The battle can be largely won by using something toxic to them, but that toxicity also tends to affect other organisms too, hence when people determine the toxicity is too high, the chemicals get withdrawn and we are fighting with a hand tied behind our backs.

The point is, Exmoor Trim's statement may be true, or may be marketing hype (they may actually have had no choice in the matter) but either way, they don't have the option to go back. If you can find someone else using a higher proportion of man-made fibre in the fabric then the likelihood is it will last much better. Polypropylene is particularly good. The only thing is, then it is oil-derived so it may not suit eco-credentials so much, but actually most man-made textiles can be eternally recycled (cradle to cradle rather than cradle to grave) so as long as it is disposed of responsibly at end of life it may actually be less damaging than some cotton soaked in copper chrome arsenate for example.

Alec

[Bronze Green]

It may be worth asking other hood producers such as AWT and Undercover Covers if they have the same types of canvas. My old Exmoor hood fitted 30 years ago is still in good condition. I have an UC One On a 90 but that’s only been on 3 years so not sure how it will hold up however the fact that UC do a lot of work for the MOD then perhaps they still use canvas which will last in the outdoors.

[Gareth]

That’s why I just bought a truck cab, and will convert what’s left of the old full hood into a 3/4.

[crumbly65]

Good points raised in both responses.  I will, of course, shop around and try to find the best, longest-lasting hood I can find, at a price I can afford.

Exmoor Trim deserve credit for putting the statement on their web page, but that is small comfort when a customer is laying out the best part of £400 for a product that is markedly inferior to the original product.

ET's statement is a little ambiguous in some ways.  When they say "ET's 18oz Natural Cotton Canvas over the years has changed etc etc", they do say many of the old chemicals are no longer used.  But has the weave and/or the cotton thread changed as well?    What exactly is a "100% Natural Cotton Fibre"  Is that the same as a canvas made from a 100% woven cotton canvas thread?  Is it still an 18oz Natural Cotton Canvas?  Or some kind of inferior mixed cotton fibre weave?

There are situations where an environmental impact is important, lead in petrol for example.  But to sell a product that now would appear to have only a third of the life of the original, but costing almost double the price, even allowing for inflation, I think is very unsatisfactory.  Canvas hoods are meant to last and protect us from the elements, and to be removable when needed.  A solid roof doesn't suit everybody.

If the environmental demands make it impossible to produce a long-lasting canvas hood, what are the alternatives?  I assume it's either Mohair (£££'s), or replacing hoods more frequently.   

I accept that hoods, particularly those like mine, which are exposed to the elements all the time, are in many ways a "service item".  Nonetheless, I do expect to get at least 10 years out of a hood.  More if I'm lucky, less if the weather has been particularly harsh, and I've not put any effort into treating it..

It is all too easy to blame environmental pressure and changes on a lot of ills.  Many believe the use of environmentally sound cleaners, for example, are not as effective as old-fashioned bleach, and that is why many infections abound in Hospitals, Care Homes and the like.  That may or may not be, but developing better cleaning products has happened.  Shouldn't ET find a hood material that does last, rather than just charge the same amount for an inferior product?

Apologies to all for the length of this post, but it is an issue that concerns me, and I'm sure many others on here who have a tilt fitted.

[chughes5]

If your not too worried about originality, Exmoor have started to make some PVC hoods which might be a good choice if it lives outside.

https://www.exmoortrim.co.uk/pvc-hoods.html

when I checked at the beginning of the year, not yet for series landies but suggested maybe 6 months.

[Malcolm R]

If people are struggling to find good canvas tilts what I would do is go to one of the sail companies in the UK that make spray hoods and canopies. They are often custom made so it would be easy for them to make one for a vehicle. They might be more expensive but they are designed to last all day in the sun and in salty winds but stay waterproof...