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[andys101]

Hello al

Can someone give me the measurement from the chassis top datum and the centre of the bulkhead mounting bolt.

I gave looked and looked but cant find one.

Many thanks.

[w3526602]

Hi Andy,

"No answer", was the stern reply.

Gizza a hint, what is your measurement?

I'll take a shufti at the  LAND ROVER COACH BUILDERS DRAWING. (see Google)

NOW!

602

[w3526602]

Hi,

Sorry, I can call up the screen ... but am unable to enlarge the less than clear drawing.

I wonder if somebody doing a PC "tracing" would bbe brteaking any laws ... and would LR be bothered?

How long does "Copyright" last?

Me? I'd phone Richards ... but then, I have bought two chassis from them.

How does the top of the bulkhead out-rigger line up with the top of the chassis rail? 1.6mmm higher.   How far from top of out-rigger to centre of bolt hole? IO doubt that it is desperately critical.

602

[w3526602]

Hi Andy,

Do a Google for ...

LAND ROVER COACH BUILDERS DRAWINGS IMAGES ... and be afraid. The detail is probably there, or could be scaled from the drawing, but it would  not be easy.

Is there a less degraded image available? How long does copyright last? Would it be possible/permitted to take an "on-screen" tracing?

Whatever, everybody should know that this drawing is accessible.

602

[martinthefirst]

This one:

[Serious Series]

Here is a better copy of that drawing but it does not appear to show the measurement you require.

[Craig T]

Isn't this dimension controlled by the outrigger?

I thought the top of the outrigger was meant to be level with the top of the chassis and the hole ends up wherever the outrigger maker has put it.

Craig.

[andys101]

Well, in the end I went with best guess.
I have found the coachbuilders drawing which was very helpful, but I couldn't read the dimension, or it was illegible. 
What I did find out is the top of the chassis running front to rear is not level and all the pictures of original outriggers showed some degree of the top of the outrigger being somewhat below the top face of the chassis.
They are on now (see my build post for progress), I placed them 3mm behind where they should be based on the coachbuilders diagramme, figuring its easier to pack the bulkhead than to cut off some metal, I have to fit the rear half chassis yet which will be fun. 

w3526602, as it turns out my chassis has a slight twist, so even using string and three spirit levels I had multiple levels to work too.

I do feel I am trying to be too accurate with a 50 year old chassis that probably wasn't all that accurate to begin with.

Thanks to all for the help, I really appreciate it.

[w3526602]

Hi,

Does anybody know how many "SHIMS"" are listed in the parts book?

You are probably better off making the chassis too long,. rather  than to short ... you can always shim something towards the middle, rather than off the end. Doors need to shut, but without too much clearance.

Does the drawing show the overall length of the chassis frame.

It would be nice (at least I think so) if Richards (or who ever) gave a dimension between the relevent cross members, so you could cut a couple of bits of batten to act as horizontal jigs. Does anybody have a bare chassis that they can measure?  A real clever clogs could make and sell such GO/NO GO gauges.

Last I heard, car manufactureres work to +/-3mm on their body shells.

602

[andys101]

I did find this which had all the dimensions I need, but illegible.

[w3526602]

Hi,

A few years ago now, I contacted Richards, asked the distance between centres, of the bulk-head mounting bolts. Got the answer by return. (I have bought two chassis from them).

There are dimensioned drawings of both 88" and  109" chassis in the Green Bible, Unfortunately, neither shows front nor rear elevations. There is nothing to indicate that the bulkhead out-riggers are anything but level with the top of the chassis rails.

To my mind, if the bulkhead bolt holes are too low, you have a little bit of tolerance (10mm?) between the bottom of the footwell, and top of the chassis ( I do not have a Landy to look at, so working from memory.  I doubt that there would be serious consequences if you fitted the bulkhead too high... within reason.

Me? I'd run a plank across the chassis, and clamp the out-riggers to it, before tacking.

Looking at the drawing in the Green Bible, the front of the outrigger shell (not the bolt-hole "escutcheon) is 20" + 28.25" = 48.25" from the flat at the front of the chassis rails.  If push came to shove, I'd make a timber jig clamped to the chassis, to locate the outriggers where they touch the chassis, and keep them in line horizontally and vertically.

Of course, that would not take into account any lozenging of the chasssis during production, or subsequent shunts (accidental) nor shunting (deliberate). In 1960, a neighbour's brand new Mini rolled down his drive, clipped the corner of his house ... very gently ... no damage ... apart from a lozenged shell.

Many yonks ago, monocoque body shells coming off the production lines had a tolerence of +/- 3mm How many shims could be fond on a brand new Series? It's easy to shim the bulkhead forward, virtually impossible to shim it backward.

Me? I'd clamp some timber across the chassis. Stand the bulkhead roughly in place (hang from the ceiling?) fit and close the doors, use the 16mm bulk-head bolts to align the outriggers, and tack the outriggers to the chassis. Remove the clutter and get a clever-clogs to do the seam welding.

On the other hand, if somebody wants to fabricate an "outrigger to chassis" location/welding jig ... I'm sure we would be ... er ... very grateful.

602

[andys101]

Here is my methodology.
Place chassis on tall axle stands and shim to level front to rear and left to right.
I very accurately plotted the 2 front datum lines - centre of front axle and actual front datum.
From this I marked the leading edge of the outriggers and moved this line back 3mm as the bulkhead is fitted infront and it is easier to shim.
Fitted a string line front to rear following the top chassis datum line on both sides - this is when I discovered that the near side chassis rail is 6mm lower than the off side at the bulkhead position.
Fitted and levelled the outriggers checking the distance between mounting hole centres is correct - the front face is perpendicular, the top face is level.
Weld it all in.
When searching for pictures of outriggers I found that original chassis have them slightly below top face and replacement chassis have them level.
They are in place now on a best guess, there is enough movement in the surrounding parts to end up with good body lines and panel gaps.


I hope!

[andys101]

Here is my methodology.
Place chassis on tall axle stands and shim to level front to rear and left to right.
I very accurately plotted the 2 front datum lines - centre of front axle and actual front datum.
From this I marked the leading edge of the outriggers and moved this line back 3mm as the bulkhead is fitted infront and it is easier to shim.
Fitted a string line front to rear following the top chassis datum line on both sides - this is when I discovered that the near side chassis rail is 6mm lower than the off side at the bulkhead position.
Fitted and levelled the outriggers checking the distance between mounting hole centres is correct - the front face is perpendicular, the top face is level.
Weld it all in.
When searching for pictures of outriggers I found that original chassis have them slightly below top face and replacement chassis have them level.
They are in place now on a best guess, there is enough movement in the surrounding parts to end up with good body lines and panel gaps.


I hope!

[w3526602]

Hi,

That coach bullder's drawing ... would it be fair to assume that Land Rover gave/sold "fair copies" to the "trade"?

Would it then follow, that somewhere in the drawing office, there is an ORIGINAL, probably drawn on A3 (?) tracing paper?

Or maybe not ... the last drawing office that I worked in, transferred  the drawings to photographic plates, as soon as the job left the factory.

Maybe Land Rover do/did the same. Would it be worth a Club Officer writing , under the Club letter head, to ask for a full size paper print.

If nothing else, it should be one less "level of separation".

602