S2C Forum Archives
Main Section => Welcome to our virtual Pub Meeting ... => Topic started by: Grandadrob on July 03, 2022, 07:56:55 PM
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I am going to collect a Landy for a friend. I can drive, on my insurance, a vehicle, not owned by me, presumably on a 3rd party basis. But, does that vehicle have to be insured by the owner as well ?
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Yes, I believe it does.
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It definitely does, but there are quite a few daily/hourly insurance options, here's one: https://www.rac.co.uk/insurance/temporary-car-insurance
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Your current insurer may also allow you to add temporary insurance, for a fee ...
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Worth knowing if you do this a bit that Flux let you upgrade your driving other cars to fully comprehensive for £25 a year. (Fairly sure would still need to be insured elsewhere).
I have this as it’s pretty good value for piece of mind that whatever I borrow or shift for someone is covered. Sadly not heard of anyone else offering it as I’d imagine it’s useful to a lot of people.
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Short term insurance buys cover to drive a car for an hour, a day, etc. That could be someone else's car, or it could be your own car, say if you have just bought it and want cover to drive it home, or you want to collect it for a friend.
In the the first case the car might well already have insurance, but in the second it obviously wouldn't.
So does "Driving other cars" insurance always mean it acts like the first case, not the second? The terms don't seem to make the distinction very clear, especially as there is a kind of DOC cover that does act as in the first example.
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Hi,
My understanding is that the insurers have difficulty avoiding paying Third Party claims, when the claimant was complying with the wording on the CERTIFICATE (The Policy document has very little clout)
However, the RTA (I think para 143) covers insurance. There is something in the Act that says the Insurers may sue their client to recover their (the insurers) losses. To my uneducated mind, that Para permits the Insurers to sue the Policyholder, to recover their losses, whatever the circumstances. I would be very happy to be wrong.
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Hi,
Regarding DRIVING ANY OTHER CAR.
My understanding is that what it says your CERTIFICATE OF INSURANCE is written in stonr, but ....
If a car is not insured in it's own right, the VED is void. I don't know if the same applies to an expired MOT. ???
I assume that an uninsured car IS insured if you are driving it on your "ANY OTHER CAR" clause. But the instant you step out of it, the car will revert to being uninsured, unless it's owner keeper has insurance cover. Which if he doesn't will make him liable for insurance and VED penalties.
I don't know if driving with an expired MOT will void the RFL. To my mind, DVLC could prosecute for no RFL, but scarcely worth it if they are holding the VED (No back duty to be claimed).
Hmmm! If insurance expires, the VED should be refunded (automatically?) .... but is it possible to tax a car for longer than the unexpired period of insurance? There's something in my mind ... but it was a long time ago, and possibly only a proposal.
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Hi,
Searching but not finding.
In Malaya (mid-1960s) you could not tax a vehicle beyond the expiry date of the insurance.
And I just found this .....which seems to say that if you don't declare SORN, you can also be done for NO INSURANCE. Double Whammy.
Any motor propelled vehicle which is not subject to a Statutory off road Notice (SORN), must be insured for a minimum of third party risk. If you
own or use a vehicle that is not SORN, the offence is committed. Section 143 of the Road Traffic Act 1988
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I thought in the UK it was the driver who was insured, not the vehicle? is it actually possible to insure a car that has no drivers?
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^^^ Quite so ......
Who has "3rd party" these days ???
In some cases it's more than "fully comp" insurance.
When an uninsured driver damages their own vehicle - then tough luck.
In this country you only need insurance cover on the 1st day that your VED runs from.
When you take out an insurance policy you have a 14 day cooling off period, then you can cancel the insurance.
The "types" who drive with no insurance, no road tax, no MoT (and no valid driving license) just don't care 2 hoots.
If you watch day-time TV there's loads of programmes with police cars chasing uninsured drivers.
At best they get a slap on the wrist and nothing much else happens.
We all pay for this out of our premiums, the insurance companies never lose out.
:RHD
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I thought in the UK it was the driver who was insured, not the vehicle? is it actually possible to insure a car that has no drivers?
The driver is insured to drive a particular vehicle or vehicles. So you can't insure your Series 2, then hop in a Rangerover and automatically be covered.
It should state on your Policy if driving other vehicles is covered. The very small print will say subject to that vehicle being insured and even smaller print that it is road legal.
Unless specific cover is arranged all cases only cover 3rd party.
Short term insurance will usually be on a fully comp basis but does vary, so check if needed.
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I am going to collect a Landy for a friend. I can drive, on my insurance, a vehicle, not owned by me, presumably on a 3rd party basis. But, does that vehicle have to be insured by the owner as well ?
Hi.
Yes the other vehicle would need to be insured as well otherwise it won't show on the Motor Insurance Database.
Regards,
Dan.
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I went to look at a car, bought it, rang up and got instant insurance cover over the phone, got tax, and drove it home. That wouldn't have been on either data base.
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It can take up to 5 days for an insured vehicle to get on the database.
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That's my point - the obligation is to have insurance in force, not to have to wait for it to recorded on the database.
If challenged while driving it home, the police can confirm insurance by ringing up the insurance company.
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Hi,
According to the Road Traffic Act, you can (or could) avoid the requirement for Third Party insurance, by depositing £1,000,000 with the Attorney General. The Supermarket Chain who owned the pantechnicon that wrote of Barbara's SAAB obviously found this to be cheaper than paying for insurance.
The supermarket ignored all correspondence from our insurer, at which point most victims will cease fighting.
Luckily, at my insistence, Barbara had paid the extra (£10?) for Legal Protection.
The supermarket settled on the courthouse steps, which meant the return of Barbara's full NCD, and the wiping of any "black mark" from her insurance record, plus the virtual return of the "first £1,000" of any claim. Our insurers will have recovered the sum they had payed for Barbara's "write off", and presumably their "costs". Barbara can now reply "FULL CLAIM AGAINST OTHER PARTY" to any question about her insurance history.
According to what I read in the Press, Third Party insurance now costs more than Fully Comp ... which I presume the insurers can justify?
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According to what I read in the Press, Third Party insurance now costs more than Fully Comp ... which I presume the insurers can justify?
Yes - because statistically people who have third-party only cover are, on average, higher risks than those with comprehensive.
It's all done on statistical risk. That's why it's cheaper to insure your car parked in the road rather than in a locked garage attached to your house. Because keeping it in the garage tells a thief which house to break into to find the keys, which is easier and safer than breaking into the car.
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It's a condition of my MG insurance that it must be kept in a locked garage overnight while at home otherwise the premium would increase.
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An Insurance company that frequents this forum last year told me the information I had given them was incorrect. They said that the building beside my house (which was built at the same time as the house to keep a car in) was NOT a garage. They said it was "a building beside my house to keep a car in"!
Calum.
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The rules will be different for classic cars, because they tend to be easier to break into than modern cars with sophisticated electronics. But now that modern cars are becoming increasingly easier to hack into perhaps the balance is swinging back again.
Perhaps soon it will be a condition of insurance that you remove the steering wheel and keep it with you at all times, like Mr Bean. :)
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Perhaps soon it will be a condition of insurance that you remove the steering wheel and keep it with you at all times, like Mr Bean. :)
The owner of the 2008 130 crew cab tipper Land Rover who lives a few doors down the road from me does just that
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An Insurance company that frequents this forum last year told me the information I had given them was incorrect. They said that the building beside my house (which was built at the same time as the house to keep a car in) was NOT a garage. They said it was "a building beside my house to keep a car in"!
Calum.
How did they know/determine that ?
Ask for a site visit.
Else go to another company that respects your custom.
:RHD
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It's a condition of my MG insurance that it must be kept in a locked garage overnight while at home otherwise the premium would increase.
On a recent search for Landrover insurance, I did tell the advisor that I had no garage. Not a problem say he just a few Pound extra.
Everything appeared good so I took out cover, on reading the Policy I find said Landrover is not covered for theft if stolen whilst not stored in a locked garage overnight !
Policy duly cancelled.
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Why then is it often cheaper for normal car insurance when the everyday car is kept on the drive rather than in the garage.?
Simon.
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In this day-&-age how many owners keep their car in the "garage".
Modern-day garages are a joke.
You can not fit a standard size car in them :thud
Never mind putting a Land Rover in - door height is too low :shakeinghead
These garages are nothing more than a storage space with an up-&-over door - shouldn't be called garages.
I suspect insurers realise this.
As we have posted many times previously - If they want to steal your car/Land Rover they will take it - steering wheel or not!
With classic cars you can have agreed value insurance. When setting up the policy you have to prove/show the evidence that the vehicle is worth what you say.
So - the scenario posted above won't happen. You agree the value of 10K - the vehicle is lost/stolen - you get 10K not your supposed 15K :shakeinghead
You can claim what you like, but you'll only get 10K back.
:cheers
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On a recent search for Landrover insurance, I did tell the advisor that I had no garage. Not a problem say he just a few Pound extra.
Everything appeared good so I took out cover, on reading the Policy I find said Landrover is not covered for theft if stolen whilst not stored in a locked garage overnight !
Policy duly cancelled.
My MG occupies the garage. When the tracker packed up and had to be returned for repair (3 day turnaround) Peter Best charged an extra £5 to cover theft. A heavy Bulldog wheel clamp is fitted too.
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The whole insurance industry is a minefield with no real correlation between perceived risk and cost.
Each broker/company will have their own rules and regulations.
Some years back when there where insurance brokers everywhere friend of mine worked at one.
A client of many years had been refused cover over the 'phone for his kit car.
He called into the office, explained to my friend, a car enthusiast, the car had a Rover V8. He rang the insurance company direct and asked could he base cover on a Rover Vitesse ?
The highest power Rover V8 at the time. Erm, yes. Was the response. easy when people know what they talking about. Not so easy these days.
I signed up for a 'phone quote at a show. The young lady called and asked about providing cover for my Landrover Series eleven ?
Now I know not everyone knows what a Series 11 is, but if that is part of your business I think you should. ???
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But it's not a Series 11, it's a Series II.
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But it's not a Series 11, it's a Series II.
Agreed but on a piece of paper 11 could be II when it is written as ||. My point is someone who specialises in classic Landrover insurance should know that there is no Series eleven.
Reminds me of trying to insure my old Rangerover some years back with a High St' insurer.
"Is it a Vogue or a Fleetline" ( Fleetline being what was sold to the Police etc). No it was neither. But that was all they had listed.
So move on to another broker. :thud
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There's a blast from the past. Haven't heard the term Fleetline for years! I had two of those - really great basic Range Rovers - just what they should always have been. the calibrated speedo always raised a few eyebrows though!
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There's a blast from the past. Haven't heard the term Fleetline for years! I had two of those - really great basic Range Rovers - just what they should always have been. the calibrated speedo always raised a few eyebrows though!
Where they white with black bonnet by chance ?
That was the preffered scheme in the Northwest.
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They were all white from the factory. Each force then did what they wanted to them. There was talk of reintroducing the program for Defender nd Discovery 1, but it never came to anything. Not much to strip out of a Defender and a Discovery 1 was pretty basic already.
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Vaguely recall dozens of them on the M62 some years back when there was a bad snowfall and hundreds where trapped in the snow over Windy Hill.
Motorway Rangerovers from all over; Merseyside, Cheshire, Lancashire, Yorks and GMP.
That was of course back when each area had it's own M'way patrols. Not now their centralised and hugely reduced.
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Hi,
My bungalow was built in 1984, with a detached brick-build, tiled roofed, "edifice" in the garden, presumably described as a garage in the sales spiel.
The external dimensions are 9ft wide, by 21ft long. An S2 with truck cab cannot drive under the up and over door.. the garage roof trusses appear to be identical to those in the bungalow roof .... 45* pitch, 21ft span (presumably the bean-counter decreed it would be that way. ???)
I have decided that it will function as a "man cave".
There is room for a 9-metre campervan in my "garden extension", which has a 2-metre high fence, and lockable gates. I hope that will enable a future owner to obtain camper van insurance without paying storage fees.
OT, I believe any area of land may be used for any purpose, without Planning Permission, for 28 days in a year, OTHER THAN as a caravan site, an open air market, and motor racing, all of which are restricted to 14 days. But check that, it's been a long time since I looked at the ACT.
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