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Main Section => Welcome to our virtual Pub Meeting ... => Topic started by: w3526602 on June 12, 2023, 09:31:51 AM
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Hi,
Program on BBC TV, about the future of charging your car will shown on BBC EAST tonight at 20.00hrs.
Not my problem, as I have room to park up to six cars in my front garden, all within reach of a house wall. The bloke two doors down, already charges his TESLA, while it stands in his drive. The charger is nailed to his house wall, next to his meter box. It looks an easy job, but you may be required to employ a professional.
Chargers are listed on Ebay.
602
PS. Advice is, if you are using a public charger, do not try to squeeze extra Amps into your battery. The charging rate slows as your battery nears FULL, but you will still be charged by the hour. Can anybody here expand on that?
Thinks ... could this justify demanding the right to have a second dropped kerb? Plus another for the Carer's car(s)?
602
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Having watched the programme, all my beliefs about ev`s were confirmed. The presenter drove one on a long journey before ending up in Scotland where, ironically, he then lit an open fire of carbon rich logs :thud
Testing out various charging points on his way, and although in favour of ev`s, he was clearly annoyed by all the aggravation of finding chargers that worked, downloading an App & filling in pages of stuff just so he could pay, and then having to sit and wait while the charge completed.
One lady showed how she had to park across the pavement, completely blocking it, and passing a charging cable through her house window.
Someone in the industry, I think, appeared and bemoaned that Government hadn`t invested enough (hadn`t spent enough public money) in getting this all done.
An unbiased documentary, which failed to instil any confidence in this ev race and of course that wasn`t its purpose anyway.
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I agree Fred, and I did find the open fire on the beach very amusing. Surely that must have been deliberate, but what were they trying to say?
A further point which was ignored I think, was that all of the problems related to new vehicles? What additional grief when the batteries become a little old and tired, and how much do they cost to replace?
I guess EV makers are appealing to folk who pass their cars on after a few years, unlike most folk on this forum perhaps.
Ian F
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Why this obsession with charging at home?
I can understand the convenience, and that there might be cost benefits long term, but nobody has a petrol station in their garden.
The beauty of EVs is that they can, potentially, be charged anywhere there’s an outlet; and they don’t rely on the huge amount of behind the scenes infrastructure that’s required to freight diesel and petrol around.
Like everything, it’s horses for courses. Most people, doing short runs, and looking for their next lease or PCP, would probably be significantly better off going electric. Individuals like myself, who buy a car outright and then keep it well beyond its design life, maybe not so much. I am, however, seriously considering a Citroen Ami for hopping around town, particularly as my lad will be able to drive it at 16 and gain valuable experience and roadsense with a lower risk profile than a moped.
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Hi,
Even now, filling with petrol is a PITA. I usually drive three miles to my most convenient filling station, usually late at night. OK, that's probably down to my Ludite tendencies, and being reluctant to suffer the tortures of walking to, and queuing at the kiosk.,
Very few of my journeys exceed 3 miles, so perhaps a taxi would be sensible, but taxis do not like dogs.
As for a 2CV/Diane, I have already pondered. New (galvanised I think) are available. I suspect that there are many already converted to battery power .... mainly in France .... so there are likely to be conversion kits available. The downside is the cost of project cars, AND the cost of tyres.
About forty years ago, a battery powered Triumph Herald was featured in a specialist magazine ... possibly CUSTOM CAR or CARS AND CONVERSIONS. I cannot remember what motor was fitted, nor what battery set-up, although there was an under-bonnet photograph. The builder seemed happy with the performance, and cost, when driving into town and back, every day.
I am aware of a source of 40hp battery powered motors, fitted with what looks like a flange that would bolt up to a standard Hardy Spicer unit. Circa £500, last time I looked.
Remember that the very early 80" Series Ones used a 46bhp petrol engine. What was the bhp of the early diesels?
Does anybody here aware of any caravan orientated forums that have discussed the towing limits of battery powered cars? Or even a 2CV?
602
Several menbers of the Hillman Imp club have claimed that they travelled several miles after running out of petrol, by abusing the starter motors, and the 12 volt batteries fitted. "Pinch of salt" time?
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Hi,
Correction.
I think the battery powered traction motor is about £5,000 (five thousand pounds).
Sorry.
Would anybody be able to comment on the realistic possibility of manufacturing a dummy "back end of an engine with a main bearing" that could be bolted to the front of a gearbox, to support a drive-flange slid onto the the splines of the gearbox primary (clutch) shaft. Idle thoughts about putting an electric motor inside an IC/CI engine?
Similar guestion about making a front plate to fit direct to the transfer box?
602
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Why this obsession with charging at home?
I can understand the convenience, and that there might be cost benefits long term, but nobody has a petrol station in their garden.
I would imagine the home charging obsession is due to the fact that cars generally sit unused overnight, which is an ideal time to take advantage of this idle time by being able to plug it in and not be inconvenienced through the day, while trying to go about your business by the time taken to charge the batteries.
Nobody needs a petrol station in their garden, it’s a ridiculous comparison, which I’ve seen bandied around quite a lot.
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Nobody needs a petrol station in their garden,
Hi,
Agreed! But everybody needs a supply of "mobility" fuel readily available.
More and more people are converting to battery power, which takes time to load. I don't fancy queuing up while the bloke in front charges his car.
Asking out of curiosity .... what is to stop somebody yanking a public cable out of my car, and plugging it into his car. What is to stop a joker simply yanking the cable out of my car ... and walking away?
As mentioned previously, public meters charge by the hour (or so I'm informed). It seems that you are best running your battery low, then recharging to half full, to get the most "bangs for your buck". ???
602
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I would imagine the home charging obsession is due to the fact that cars generally sit unused overnight, which is an ideal time to take advantage of this idle time by being able to plug it in and not be inconvenienced through the day, while trying to go about your business by the time taken to charge the batteries.
Nobody needs a petrol station in their garden, it’s a ridiculous comparison, which I’ve seen bandied around quite a lot.
They sit unused for most of their lives. Supermarket carparks, outside work etc, and that's as much an opportunity to charge them in their downtime as outside the owners' houses.
I don't think it's a ridiculous comparison, I think it's ridiculous that "I can't fill it up to do 300/400/500 miles in a few minutes" is used as a valid argument when most people seldom drive more than twenty or thirty miles at a time before leaving the car parked somewhere for hours.
I think, on a forum dedicated to vehicle enthusiasts, we're not really best placed to make decisions about what "normal" people do with their cars.
???
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Nobody needs a petrol station in their garden,
Asking out of curiosity .... what is to stop somebody yanking a public cable out of my car, and plugging it into his car. What is to stop a joker simply yanking the cable out of my car ... and walking away?
As mentioned previously, public meters charge by the hour (or so I'm informed). It seems that you are best running your battery low, then recharging to half full, to get the most "bangs for your buck". ???
602
2 very good questions which need answering by the eco zealots, it's going to take years for the infra structure to catch up.
Nothing to stop "yobs" playing around with the charging cable - pulling the plug and dropping it in a bucket of water or putting an axe through the cable - general larking around and with viscous nasty neighbours ???
On street charging is a nightmare scenario - people tripping over cables and putting in accident claims.
2nd point - halfway down the motorway and you call in at the services for a top up.
It ain't going to happen. Not enough charging points.
It takes so long to charge up that you will exceed the parking time and get a £100 "fine" :thud
You couldn't make this rubbish up.
Commuting to work - yes - you charge up at work, you'll pay through the nose as some already have to pay to park at work.
But then that's not a problem as we are all working from home now :thud
Shopping trips - yes - you charge up back at home - assuming you have an off-road drive to do it.
Perhaps this is why sales of EVs are falling ???
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I'd like to see the terraced houses here try on street charging, first off you can't even park outside your own home 90% of the time, the streets are so small only half of the street can get their cars on anyway.
to me the whole electric car situation seems to be aimed at those with money and space. everyone else gets blown off.
good if you work in an office with good parking in city/town car parks all day.
an 'average' working man commuting in his van/car won't be parked on some main street, usually its in some back lot or a space on a site at work, used to run around carrying things back and forth all day long.
plus is there even an electric vehicle that can tow weight all day long yet? ???
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...... but nobody has a petrol station in their garden.....The beauty of EVs is that they can, potentially, be charged anywhere there’s an outlet; and they don’t rely on the huge amount of behind the scenes infrastructure that’s required to freight diesel and petrol around .......
Hi Glen,
You`ll have guessed I`m not in your camp on this one, but fair play, it`s worked for you.
The reason we don`t need a petrol station in the garden is because for the great majority of us, finding one is very easy and quick.
And when I get there, the probability is I won`t have to queue, the pump will work, I know I won`t have to download an App before I can pay, (as did that BBC presenter) and by using Pay at Pump, I`ll be fully charged ;) & out of there in about 5 minutes.
Your point about the huge amount of infrastructure to get fossil fuel to garages is sound. But you're forgetting, just like the wheel, it is already there, not so ev chargers.
Driving anything other than locally and looking for an ev charger reminds me of running a Disco V8 LPG and hoping to find an outlet without having to go miles out of my way, very stressful.
But it`s about much more than all the faffing about, my real concern is the environmental damage caused by lithium mining and all the associated costs of handling & disposing of old toxic batteries.
And lets not fool ourselves, this is never going to be a long term solution, science technology will develop much better fuels. And for those of us old enough to remember, VHS beat Betamax to the market even though Betamax was widely acknowledged to be the better product, but VHS didn`t last
And when that day comes we will have spent billions of public £ and effort just to make a substandard product work. Eyes need opening because we are all being pushed in one direction, (remember when they encouraged us to use Diesel) why else would they be using public money to subsidise the costs of these vehicles? A subsidy that one day, will have to be paid for - effectively you`re paying for your own discount :scam
And the reason, essentially it`s all about meeting a political target >:(
I need a nap :sleep
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I guess the paradox is a bit like in the old days when petrol powered vehicles were invented and sold to the populous.
In the early days you had to but your petrol from the chemists, in smallish bottles.
Supply & demand I guess, but knowing how sluggish we are in maintaining our infra structures - completing rail electrification. Motorways & bypasses, 40 new hospitals promised years ago, 3rd Heathrow runway, H2S (why not improve the whole rail system), building the extra power stations etc. etc. etc.
Putting in EV charging points everywhere just ain't going to happen in my lifetime.
:snowman-1
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I understood that in statute.
Entering on to a motorway with insufficient fuel was an offence.
Is the same true of electric vehicles.
Additionally everything is or hopefully should be tip top when new, vehicle and charging but what happens years down the line when it is approaching sell by, have there been any instances of death or injury specific to electrification ?
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I don't know ... I don't see having enough fuel on the blue signs at the start of a motorway - no horses & bicycles and mopeds etc. ???
At least with conventionally fuelled vehicles you can put a can of fuel in.
EVs would have to be towed somewhere. And what with these so-called smart motorways running out of juice could be a death sentence. They may not be building any more smart motorways, but what about the hundreds (?) of miles we already have ???
:RHD
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They have to be lifted not towed which adds further time and danger.
I do think that hybrid ic charging , or synthetic fuel ic engines are the answer even if its a stop gap.
People seem incapable of keeping charge in a mobile phone let alone a vehicle........................
Thats not everyone I hasten to add.
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What is to stop a joker simply yanking the cable out of my car ... and walking away?
The same sort of thing that (on modern cars) prevents someone from opening your petrol tank and tossing a lit match into it :cool There's a locking mechanism on the charging port that locks the cable in place while it's charging.
As for the attraction of charging at home, it's basically the argument that charging your car, when you get home, takes about 30 seconds: you plug it in, and get on with the rest of your day. We can configure the car (or charger) to only start charging when the cheap night-rate electricity kicks in. During the day, we can also trickle charge ours using the solar panels - slower, but if we're not going anywhere, we get "free" miles, and we're not tying up a public charger for someone who really needs it in an emergency. Alas, public chargers are _very_ thin on the ground here in Northern Ireland.
Would anybody be able to comment on the realistic possibility of manufacturing a dummy "back end of an engine with a main bearing" that could be bolted to the front of a gearbox, to support a drive-flange slid onto the the splines of the gearbox primary (clutch) shaft. Idle thoughts about putting an electric motor inside an IC/CI engine? Similar guestion about making a front plate to fit direct to the transfer box?
Yes, both of these things have been done, by hobbyists and companies, tor example: https://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/new-cars/electrogenic-launches-ev-conversion-kit-classic-mini Typically reusing an existing gearbox/transfer box results in less efficiency though, because of all that drivetrain gearing that you don't technically need with an EV, but if you want an electric car, that's one way to go about it.
In summary, no EVs aren't for everyone yet, but technology marches on, for example https://www.motorauthority.com/news/1139925_toyota-touts-745-mile-range-10-minute-charge-for-solid-state-battery
- tim
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People seem incapable of keeping charge in a mobile phone let alone a vehicle........................
That's not everyone I hasten to add.
Well, thank you for that courtesy.
Declaring an interest, I have owned and driven an Electric Vehicle in the UK since 2018 as my daily driver.
I had an interest in them for at least 6 months before that, which meant joining a couple of specifically EV forums to further my research and understanding. Although I no longer follow either forum on a daily basis I will recommend that anyone interested in doing appropriate research should register with SpeakEV.
They have multiple sub-forums, each focussed on different models of EV.
They also have sub-forums relating to charging, both via the public network and home charge points.
While there are, of course, people who promote their individual views to excess, it is normally easy to spot these, assuming you read your sub-forums of interest on a regular basis. Overall, I consider the EV information gained via that forum will be streets ahead of EV information gained via this forum, a lot of which appears to be posted by EV non-users.
Having done my research I placed my orders, both for an EV and a charge point installation, with different companies. I haven't regretted either of my decisions. These decisions were based on MY needs and concerns, not those of a wider world.
I also looked into the support offered by my chosen Roadside Assistance provider, selected long before I had an EV. If the vehicle battery is 'flat' for any reason they will flat bed the vehicle to the nearest charger, or home if that is the owners choice.
Perhaps also relevant is that only I drive the EV, so I don't have to cater for the possibly erratic decisions of a 'disinterested' driver.
Regards.
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Point well made ^^^
I don't think we are set out/up to provide EV support and being confirmed petrol(diesel) heads one would expect a certain amount of scepticism.
If you are considering going EV then you MUST do the research and not reply on views expressed here.
We have have a Toyota Yaris Hybrid and we are very pleased with it :first
If I had to buy a new car tomorrow I would go for a hybrid.
:RHD
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Point well made ^^^
I don't think we are set out/up to provide EV support and being confirmed petrol(diesel) heads one would expect a certain amount of scepticism.
If you are considering going EV then you MUST do the research and not reply on views expressed here.
We have have a Toyota Yaris Hybrid and we are very pleased with it :first
If I had to buy a new car tomorrow I would go for a hybrid.
:RHD
I know someone with the yaris and it does appeal. There driving style however does not lend itself to the yaris.
It spend large amounts of time with the petrol engine running.
What range etc do you get when driven with mechanical sympathy.
If the yaris is as good as I suspect it is. Why are hybrids to be axed 5yrs after petrol diesel new cars sales.
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They sit unused for most of their lives. Supermarket carparks, outside work etc, and that's as much an opportunity to charge them in their downtime as outside the owners' houses.
I don't think it's a ridiculous comparison, I think it's ridiculous that "I can't fill it up to do 300/400/500 miles in a few minutes" is used as a valid argument when most people seldom drive more than twenty or thirty miles at a time before leaving the car parked somewhere for hours.
I think, on a forum dedicated to vehicle enthusiasts, we're not really best placed to make decisions about what "normal" people do with their cars.
???
It is a valid argument though, since with a petrol car, under normal usage you might visit a petrol station for a few minutes every couple of weeks. With an electric car, you might still only have to go to a charger once every couple of weeks, but you’d need to hang out there for a few hours. If you were just topping the battery up you might have to go for 20 minutes every few days.
For electric vehicles to be as convenient as fuel you either need the ability to charge it at home, or there need to be chargers almost anywhere you park and leave it. The former is inconvenient for those who don’t have the luxury of a driveway and the latter makes me think it’s time to invest in copper mines.
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Twenty years ago it was inconceivable that you could have a device smaller than a cigarette packet, capable of storing your entire music collection, accessing the whole world’s repository of information, watching high quality videos, making phone calls, translating any language (by text, audio or visual input), taking SLR quality photos and broadcast quality video, all at a price that nearly anyone could afford; but here we are.
The oil lobby and its various vested interests have kept the internal combustion engine going for at least a couple of decades longer than it really should have. We are now seeing an astonishing amount of innovation and new technology development, as well as a paradigm shift which is seeing younger people steadily move away from the traditional model of car ownership and financing. In twenty more years I’m confident that there will still be a few people still running IC cars, and there will no doubt be forums and apps telling us where the nearest place is that we can buy fuel; but I’m also confident that the vast majority of road users will be doing short trips in Citroen Ami style microcars (owned, leased or rented by the mile like a bike in London), and doing the occasional longer trips either by train or by renting something more suitable for the duration of the journey. Those that regularly need to do long distances will have a solution appropriate for their needs, but the idea of having a vehicle with capacity that’s never used will be a thing of the past.
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^^^^^ Wise words, some thoughts of mine
The future is box shaped, anonymous, bland little boxes. By comparison, the original 1970`s Citroen Ami is a delight to the eyes. Of a similar ilk, I once had a red & white Citroen 2CV Dolly, we had lots of fun driving through France while towing a small trailer, she didn`t miss a beat.
You say that ICE has been kept going 20 years longer than it should have, I say ICE is not the problem, it is the fuel we put into them, the fuel has always been the problem. I have said it here before, had the oil industry used their muscle, influence & money investing in new fuels, how much different would the landscape now be. The difficulties with Hydrogen and others would probably now be a thing of the past.
Your forecast of very few ICE cars in 20 years, well I`m a little more confident. Classic Car interest is strong and with the death of new ICE I think that movement can only grow. It does of course depend on the development of new fuels to keep them going.
Are we really doomed to exist in the new incarnation of Ami, What a thoroughly boring future to look forward to. A couple of hundred years ago very few people ever left their village, no transport you see ;) , well they do say what goes around comes around, and with AI doing all the work, we can stay at home to look at pictures of old cars :'(
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I agree with Fred. Consumers are being panicked into buying electric stuff as a knee jerk reaction to circumstances beyond our control. Petrol and diesel will be around for many years to come. There are rumblings of dissent in EU countries about it.
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Mrs Wittsend reports that the overall range is 400+ miles.
She had nearly a 1/4 tank of petrol left and she's heavy with the right foot.
She recons in "normal" use she fills up every 6 weeks which far more than when she had her diesel Focus.
But, she notices it uses more fuel in the winter, when it's cold.
:forecourt
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Why this obsession with charging at home?
I can understand the convenience, and that there might be cost benefits long term, but nobody has a petrol station in their garden.
We have not gone EV yet, but one of the biggest attractions is to always have a "full tank" at the start of each day.
Oh, how I long for not having to go to petrol stations (in the cold etc.) each week. Charging the car overnight is possibly the best bit of going EV!
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Oh, how I long for not having to go to petrol stations (in the cold etc.) each week. Charging the car overnight is possibly the best bit of going EV!
....and then the inevitable power cut with all the EV's being charged along with ovens etc being used!!!
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Probably a stupid question, but having seen a number of shoreline disasters with idiot truckers driving off with the fridge power supplies connected, how is this prevented on an EV?
Do I assume that it will not permit you to start with the shoreline connected?
I like the Ludo McGurk system which physically ejects the shoreline power cable if the ignition is switched on. Hurts if you are standing beside the plug though when it gets ejected. It can be at just the wrong height...
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Mrs Wittsend reports that the overall range is 400+ miles.
She had nearly a 1/4 tank of petrol left and she's heavy with the right foot.
She recons in "normal" use she fills up every 6 weeks which far more than when she had her diesel Focus.
But, she notices it uses more fuel in the winter, when it's cold.
:forecourt
The pick of the yaris crop used to be the 1.4 diesel, they ran on fumes irrespective of driver input.
Now outlawed, short of putting flowers out of the exhaust they were very clean.
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Hi,
Circa 60 odd yonks ago, an RAF fireman got an award (cash) for suggesting the release of the hand-brake to eject the umbilical cable.
The umbilical cable was used to keep the batteries charged, and prevent the several hundred gallons of water from freezing.
OT ... one fire tender was brought to the boil, literally, when the thermostat failed.
602
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My series 3 is an ambulance - the RAF had a plug in system that was in the rear of the vehicle with no lugs so you could drive off with it on charge and it would disconnect with no damage. Only a 50 year old idea or so (if it worked…… the same vehicle has a crash bar on the front for driving through gates as the RAF don’t stop to open them so if not bothered about inconvenience to chippys then why to sparkys?)
On the full battery point - had a plug in hybrid once upon a time - worst of all 3 worlds to be honest - the only engine braking alternative is recharging the batteries so zero when fully charged. First time in snow I drove it down the one in four hill we have between us and the main roads and gritters I was terrified. It stayed at home in snow after that to the end of the lease, what is a doddle in a Land Rover, Range Rover or even a Suzuki vitara is a scary rollercoaster in an electric vehicle with full batteries.
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the same vehicle has a crash bar on the front for driving through gates as the RAF don’t stop to open them so if not bothered about inconvenience to chippys then why to sparkys?)
Hi,
In 1961, I had taken a swimming party down to a "pond" at Khan Creek, about 5 miles from Dubai. The "pond" as filled by seawater waves breaking over the beach. We were not allowed to enter the sea itself. On of the boys had been paddling in the sea, and had been stung/bitten by something nasty.
I drove through a football match outside the camp perimeter, off the clock. Fists were shaken, but nobody ever asked why.
I was looking forward to driving through the camp gates, but unfortunately, they were open. I dumped my casualty at sick bay, parked the truck (a Bedford RL), an went for tiffin.
About a week later a Trucial Omen Scout (Arab army, with British officers) driver did drive through the gates. Instead of shattering, like they do in films, he drove down the camp road with the gates hung over the front of his truck, and miles of barbed wire, both sides, dragging behind him. Happy days.
About three years after, I managed to drive a 1951 Austin A40 estate through some level crossing gates (a longer story). The man in the signal box shouted down, telling us not to worry, he had stopped the express. The Transport Police gave me a NIP, but later withdrew it. And then they sent me a bill for £10, for repairing the gate, which I ignored. I didn't bother pursuing the matter of my one broken headlamp.
The red lamp on the gate was stone cold ... no paraffin.
602
PS. I had to ask ALEXA how to spell paraffin.