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Main Section => Welcome to our virtual Pub Meeting ... => Topic started by: Youngun on November 09, 2019, 07:40:58 PM
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Why do they still sell the damn things to the public?
The guy over the road has been setting them off for over an hour now and atleast 3 of the sticks have bounced off my poor little Fiesta (the LRs can take it)
It must be time to ban these explosives outside organised events surely?
Ignoring the stress it causes to household pets and vulnerable people, the multitude of Social media posts showing dangerous misuse of what is essentially a bomb should already be enough evidence that the uneducated can't be allowed access to them anymore.
Vent over... Carry on
Neal
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At times its like being in the trenches here in the middle of Southampton - starts in the middle of October and is still going strong tonight. Nice to see historical events celebrated by so many after so long.
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Totally agree and iv been saying it for a few years now organised displays only.
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I have always enjoyed fireworks.
A mate and I used to make our own, but it did get a little out of hand. We were finding bits of shed for days.
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I can quite understand why you would currently be annoyed (who wouldn't be) but I don't believe banning something because some people use it irresponsibly is the right response.
Organised displays still create noise and much more of it. I have been doing professional displays for the same company for 27yrs now (I was at Danson Park in NW Kent last weekend) and believe me, firing large shells is pretty loud! Many of them are also now accompanied by loud music for hours before and after.
Displays are always more drawn-out when the 5th is mid-week and most concentrated when the 5th is a Saturday - that goes for both public and private displays. We also now have fireworks fairly commonly for New Year and also in some places for Diwali. It wouldn't be unreasonable to reduce availability outside a narrow window around these times (which is how it used to be) which would reasonably contain most displays to within a week or so of the event.
The explosive content of anything available to the public is very low - less than in a shotgun cartridge. They are also quieter than a shotgun. You could reasonably argue that all sport shooting should also be banned if the impact of the noise was the main issue. Shooting might not happen around your house but it does around mine, mainly pheasants and far more times a year than fireworks do. The same argument around disrupting other people's normal course of life could be applied to other activities which people do for pleasure that have an immediate impact on others. Drinking alcohol in large volumes and then being an idiot (drink driving or even just making a lot of noise and mess) is an obvious one on a Saturday night but I believe those who are irresponsible should be targeted, rather than simply imposing a ban. It could (reasonably) be argued that alcohol can be consumed without having an impact on others but there are other activities, such as closing down town centres for carnival parades, going on holiday towing a caravan or even driving a slow classic vehicle (e.g. a Series 2) which cannot be done without having an impact on people around you. These are all likely to cause inconvenience for longer, and on average to more people, than having some fireworks.
Probably easier on balance to tolerate the things which other people enjoy and you don't, unless someone is being a right idiot at which point the authorities could be called (and might even turn up if they want to watch the display!)
Alec
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I can quite understand why you would currently be annoyed (who wouldn't be) but I don't believe banning something because some people use it irresponsibly is the right response.
Organised displays still create noise and much more of it. I have been doing professional displays for the same company for 27yrs now (I was at Danson Park in NW Kent last weekend) and believe me, firing large shells is pretty loud! Many of them are also now accompanied by loud music for hours before and after.
Displays are always more drawn-out when the 5th is mid-week and most concentrated when the 5th is a Saturday - that goes for both public and private displays. We also now have fireworks fairly commonly for New Year and also in some places for Diwali. It wouldn't be unreasonable to reduce availability outside a narrow window around these times (which is how it used to be) which would reasonably contain most displays to within a week or so of the event.
The explosive content of anything available to the public is very low - less than in a shotgun cartridge. They are also quieter than a shotgun. You could reasonably argue that all sport shooting should also be banned if the impact of the noise was the main issue. Shooting might not happen around your house but it does around mine, mainly pheasants and far more times a year than fireworks do. The same argument around disrupting other people's normal course of life could be applied to other activities which people do for pleasure that have an immediate impact on others. Drinking alcohol in large volumes and then being an idiot (drink driving or even just making a lot of noise and mess) is an obvious one on a Saturday night but I believe those who are irresponsible should be targeted, rather than simply imposing a ban. It could (reasonably) be argued that alcohol can be consumed without having an impact on others but there are other activities, such as closing down town centres for carnival parades, going on holiday towing a caravan or even driving a slow classic vehicle (e.g. a Series 2) which cannot be done without having an impact on people around you. These are all likely to cause inconvenience for longer, and on average to more people, than having some fireworks.
Probably easier on balance to tolerate the things which other people enjoy and you don't, unless someone is being a right idiot at which point the authorities could be called (and might even turn up if they want to watch the display!)
Alec
Well said.
One of the first things that came to my mind, and you touched on, are slow moving vehicles.
What if someone was really annoyed at slow moving vehicle every day on a two lane road because it impedes them getting somewhere faster? Said person complains enough it's decided that slow moving vehicles be banned since they are a nuisance? It can happen.
There has been talk of limiting slow moving vehicles from using main thoroughfares during main commute hours in my area.
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^^^ or even banning slow moving pensioners in supermarket aisles at busy times :shakeinghead :shakeinghead
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Quote (The explosive content of anything available to the public is very low - less than in a shotgun cartridge. They are also quieter than a shotgun) sorry dont agree with this comment alec, the fireworks im hearing around my house are definitely louder than any shotgun iv herd and also you can feel the pressure in the air if you are outside when they go off, many people enjoy fireworks and so do i but iv seen the problems that they bring to many pet owners and also the miss use by some of the younger element, this is why i think its time to move on and make them not for public use.
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Quote (The explosive content of anything available to the public is very low - less than in a shotgun cartridge. They are also quieter than a shotgun) sorry dont agree with this comment alec, the fireworks im hearing around my house are definitely louder than any shotgun iv herd
Shotgun 155-165dB https://www.isvr.co.uk/workplace/firearms-and-hearing-protection.htm (reference source is a noise consultancy based at the University of Southampton)
Fireworks available to the public limited to 120dB in line with BS EN14035 https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/31873/10-1043-fireworks-retailers-guide.pdf (reference is government guidelines to retailers)
If the fireworks in your area are louder than a shotgun they are illegal. This would mean they are either illegally sold display fireworks or are being imported privately as there are effectively no remaining manufacturers in the UK and only a handful of legal importers (of which the company I work for is one) and they are very restricted in what they do.
Alec
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Thank you for that info Alec, all i can say is a lot of them are a lot louder than a shot gun and even the 22.250 so they must be getting them illegally, some time you can feel the pressure in the air from them when they are over head.
phil.
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WHY, WHY, have I been seeing and hearing fireworks going off for the last 15 days :shakeinghead
BAN THE DAM THINGS >:(
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:ditto
Locally two horses and three dogs dead because of these explosives.
I don’t think that’s a mild inconvenience like getting stuck behind a caravan >:D >:D
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Back in the day, there was a noise on Nov 5 or the nearest Saturday night. Now they're going 5-6 weeks before or after. Or any Tuesday.
The sight of them becomes even more exciting than a lamp-post. I say, have done. Run them every day. A quick display before you get a packet of fags and the paper, and another before you go for a sh*t. A bigger one when you're done.
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Not just Nov 5th being the reason for the fireworks it is also Dewali which lasts for several days. Some years ago on holiday in France we spent the last day in Le Havre on Bastille day to say that the French attitude to feu d'artifice is a little more casual than ours would be an under statement.
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I would have thought that over the years the number of people who have suffered life changing injuries caused by fireworks is reason enough to only have regulated official displays
Do not the NHS have enough problems ???
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I would have thought that over the years the number of people who have suffered life changing injuries caused by fireworks is reason enough to only have regulated official displays
Do not the NHS have enough problems ???
We are a bunch of old grumpy *&%^$ Trouble is, I struggle to disagree with even one of you.
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We are a bunch of old grumpy *&%^$
its as if you know me
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It’s not a new thing. If anything, it’s less now than it was in the 70s. Bonfire night was like a war zone when I was a kid.
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I'm slightly divided on this one...yes, they're a bit of a pain these days when they're banging on with them for weeks, rather than just on bonfire night as per when I was a kid...also there's always been injuries associated with fireworks, tho I doubt the numbers are very significant compared with the everyday A&E fare..
On the other hand, I'm very much against this utterly absurd nanny state EU 'ban everything' from paint, paint stripper, light bulbs, drinks, bent bananas etc etc malarkey , which is ever on the march, so on balance I'd not be banning anything else thank you..!
Luckily all our animals, both dog and cat variety, couldn't care less about fireworks, one of the cats even deliberately went out to watch them the other day.. :shakeinghead
...perhaps if there has to be official interference, some kind of code of practice so the sale of them could be restricted to a given period close to Nov 5th or something.. ???
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So glad to see all the miserable old beggars have moved over from the old forum. :neener :-X :tiphat
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I love fireworks and luckily my lad has a part time job for a local firework company so gets a discount!
The Dum Bums (I'm not making that brand name up) were very loud this year.
:cheers
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I'm one of the grummpys from the old forum ...
I'm also an ex-explosives and fireworks experimenter.
I'm of the school that would ban the sale of fireworks to the general public.
You can't beat a proper professional display. The quality of flashes and bangs far beats what you can let off in your garden.
I also feel for the animals with the current practice of the 3 week window around November 5th and on New Year's eve :shakeinghead
I wonder had Guy Faulks done the job properly how things would have turned out.
:RHD
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When I was a lad my favourite firework was the "helicopter", two rockets and a wing, it would rotate and take of vertically. I had just lit the touchpaper on one and placed in the middle of our very quiet residential street. I retired the requisite 10 ft or so when I heard the unmistakable sound of a police "Noddy" bike (LE Velocette) gently approaching. I hid behind the garden wall praying the thing would take off, but was unable to resist peeping over the top. The copper's front wheel was about 3 ft from the helicopter when it ignited and shot into the air. To his credit he did not fall off , but veered & wobbled about before stopping and seeing me. He gave me a proper talking to but did not inform my mum. Good bloke.
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If Guy Fawkes had done the job properly and his plot succeeded priests would have been celibate and we wouldn't have suffered our last Prime Minister.
Having said that I suppose the real villan is Henry V111 whose problems with the church removed the requirement for celibate priests.
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I'm sure even if GF had done a better job, those subsequently in charge down the years would still be of an identical nature to the corrupt scumbags we have nowadays...maybe even worse!
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I somehow don't think some of the ones I made in the early 60's using weedkiller would go down too well these days. And I still have all my fingers. A friendly chemist would sell you anything then.
"With loud report" didn't really do them justice :cool
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How do the environmental lobby react to the totally un-necessary pollution?
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This morning on the news, a few miles from here.... first person lost his hand. :agh .. I’m sorry for him.
But, the first horses are already safely locked in, first dogs already start to react afraid. :shakeinghead
I love fireworks from a distance.... just 8 weeks to go and life goes back to normal. Can’t wait. :-*
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I somehow don't think some of the ones I made in the early 60's using weedkiller would go down too well these days. And I still have all my fingers. A friendly chemist would sell you anything then.
"With loud report" didn't really do them justice :cool
We used to cut open shotgun cartridges to make various interesting 'bombs' when I was a lad...I've still got all me fingers too.. :-X
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We used to cut open shotgun cartridges to make various interesting 'bombs' when I was a lad...I've still got all me fingers too.. :-X
Same here... I'm still doing it to an extent. Periodically I work on the launching rounds needed for the dummy
Wurfgranaten rounds that go with my WWI Granatenwerfer 16.
The father-in-law and I have been considering getting our licenses in order to fire the big *&%^$, our town has lost the two gents who operated our public display due to retirement and job transfer. The father-in-law use to help set them up and fire them, but now that no one here has a license.
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Have to add my tuppence worth...
A person in my village is of the view everyone, via the village Facebook page, should book in with her regarding all their fireworks events because her dog gets upset and stressed.
I really do feel for the distress to her dog.
BUT, it’s her problem to get help for her dog! I don’t see why the 420 parishioners in the village need to organise their lives around one neurotic dog.
Surely the dog owner needs to sort out training and or tranquillisers or absence for said dog and not dictate what 420 adults plus their children and pets have to do?
The world is going crazy!
Let’s keep a sense of balance here.
S
X
The balance is out of whack from where I’m standing.
Sx
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???
Have to add my tuppence worth...
A person in my village is of the view everyone, via the village Facebook page, should book in with her regarding all their fireworks events because her dog gets upset and stressed.
I really do feel for the distress to her dog.
BUT, it’s her problem to get help for her dog! I don’t see why the 420 parishioners in the village need to organise their lives around one neurotic dog.
Surely the dog owner needs to sort out training and or tranquillisers or absence for said dog and not dictate what 420 adults plus their children and pets have to do?
The world is going crazy!
Let’s keep a sense of balance here.
S
X
The balance is out of whack from where I’m standing.
Sx
I’ve got three dog, one of them is totally panicking after a week of firework.
We have trainend her a lot, now she almost doesn’t react when there is thunder and lightning or the house must be shaking. But it is almost a daily training and it never is really over.
And yes people are allowed to have a feest, overhere there are 2 days that are legit. But 2 months in advanced, no I can not enjoy that.
In the fields in my area there are already almost no horse outside.
Reactions like that...... hum ... :wooly-jumper sheep
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All this talk of fireworks simply tells me that people are more affluent than they realise :tiphat
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I'm one of the grummpys from the old forum ...
I'm also an ex-explosives and fireworks experimenter.
I'm of the school that would ban the sale of fireworks to the general public.
You can't beat a proper professional display. The quality of flashes and bangs far beats what you can let off in your garden.
I also feel for the animals with the current practice of the 3 week window around November 5th and on New Year's eve :shakeinghead
I wonder had Guy Faulks done the job properly how things would have turned out.
:RHD
I agree .
I am about to pay my membership subs for the IEexP ( google it) . The general public should not need to buy them these days , go to an organised display.
We have had idiots who have been going up onto the New Forest and targeting the ponies over the last couple of days.
Have also heard this afternoon that someone we know has lost their horse this weekend because it panicked when someone started letting fireworks off close by.
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Having read and digested all of the above, I must come to the conclusion that most of the fireworks around here are illegal. My great concern with fireworks comes from the very loud bangs. At this time of year all the sheep have had the Tups in the fields, and in the early stages of lamb. You should see them running around, not good.
On the subject of organized displays, they too must have their noise limits turned down. We can hear some which are clearly miles away.
I grew up in the 50's and enjoyed Guy Fawkes night, but it was much quieter and short lived....... albeit half of the neighbourhood burned down each year.. :agh
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Speaking of dogs and fireworks... Luckily our doggo doesn't care... Does anyone elses council go round the area removing the dog waste bins so they don't get detonated by the local likely lads with spectacularly disgusting results :shakeinghead
Or is it just a Medway thing ???
Neal
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Setting off a 60 second (£60 :agh) barrage in a phone box is a trick we come across, sheer wilful damage actually losing the spectacular effect designed in.
Or is THAT just a Liverpool thing ???
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Having become horse and pony owners in the last few years I have gone from live and let live to there are some people who are just so thick or just plain ignorant that they can't be trusted.
Agree with the money comment above someone I know who is often slow to pay bills seems to have blown up a a fair few quids worth of fireworks a few nights back.
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HI,
When I was in the ATC (Air Cadets), the C0 tat we all brought our fireworks in, and had a proper display.
What actually happened was that the Squadron split into two factions (about 20 lads in each), got lined up on opposite sides of the parade ground, and had a battle. Crackers were lit and thrown, rockets were laid horizontally on a bench, then lit.
It lasted about 20 minutes. Exilerating (in Spades). And nobody got hurt. The CO was old school, probably enjoyed the spectacle. The Adjudant was a prat, but was over-ruled.
One evening parade, I took a WW2 incendry bomb in too show the lads, put in the stores for safe keeping ... and forgot about it. In the week before the next parade, I discovered girls ... and never went back. That would have been about 1956, but I've only recently remembered it. I wonder what the Stores Officer thought about it during his next inventory check. I think it was magnesium, so he probably weighed it in.
One of our mini-cab drivers, Peter, was walking home during a WW2 air raid. Him and his mate heard the bombs coming. Peter "took it on his toes". His mate took cover in a shop doorway ... closely followed by an incendary bomb. They never found him.
I don't know if that affected Peter's attitude to life. A rival mini-cab firm ran out of drivers, so called on us for back-up. Pete was sent out to assist. Twenty minutes later, the rival cab firm phoned again .... "Please ask your driver not to torch our office!" Peter had gone for the pick-up, but nobody there. He still expected to paid. (Yes, I think he would. Matter of principle).
We had a regular lady customer ... TV actress, but earned money on the side by selling life insurance. On occasions, she was known to drop a £5 note from an upstairs window, and tell the driver there was no need to wait. One day, she came storming into the office, wanting to know why her driver, who was waiting, had been arrested for cleaning his gun while sitting in his cab (He had a sleeping bag, slept in the cab office, had been DD'd from the army).
Most Saturday nights, a woman came into the office, selling chicken legs at two shillings each. She worked in a hotel, and liberated the left-overs.
I did a year of mini-cabbing (own car), but wasn't happy about zoomping up Purley Way, at 3AM , doing 70mph, looking in the mirror ... and forgetting to look back at the road. When my Hire & Reward insurance was due for renewal, I called it a day. I did 50,000 miles , in that year, mainly in South London. An experience, but I don't think I'd want to do it again. But then again, it enabled me to buy my first house, although being introduced to a crooked estate agent helped ... but that's another story. He did two years in jail, I sweated, but when you have a wife and baby who need a roof, it's a different ball-game. I was very glad when I sold that house ... almost exactly 100% profit in four years, bought another house in Wales, for cash, got a job in DVLC.
602
602
Happy daze!
602
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Sorry to hear this is an issue there too. I thought it was a redneck American phenomenon. I am surrounded by idiots who spend their entire welfare check on fireworks. This September, a huge horse farm burned to the ground as a result of an amateur fireworks display. They lost 4 horses that were in the barn lame, the other 2 dozen were turned out for the night. The place is a total loss.
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Can't say I get it. See a proper display. Compared to the proper professional 'article' domestic-sold corner-shop fireworks are just a nuisance or worse, and go like a wet Tuesday anyway.
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This is what you want ...
16th Norwich Sea Scouts are holding their Annual Fireworks display on Sat 26th Oct at their Scout hut, The Street, Old Costessey. NR8 5DB.
There will be Hot food, Bar, hot drinks, Fair Ground rides, Plate Smashing, Coconut shy and many more traditional games to play. Gates open at 1800. £5 per person, under 3yrs Free...
We've been most years - safe for the kids.
The whole village turns out - real community spirit.
A good fund raiser for the scouts.
One year the bonfire set fire to some trees and the Fire Brigade sent out 2 engines - great fun :first
:fire
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I agree that Fireworks should be banned from public purchase. It should stop all the mindfull idiots from letting them off at any time of day and night for weeks on end.
It scares the hell out of my dogs, my neighbour's dogs, local cats, local chickens, nearby horses and other farm animals, such as sheep, pigs and cows, etc. Not to mention all the daytime and nocturnal wildlife, like birds, foxes, hedgehogs, badgers, etc.
There are humans nearby that have been traumatised by war and the explosions that go with it. Until you have experienced such a thing as war, you'll never know what sticks in your mind. These loud bangs going on day and night for weeks on end only traumatises the veterans even more. There are also children in a difficult disposition that hate fireworks and the bangs that go with it. It's not just the animals that are affected.
There are way too many animals that have died through the shock of a loud bang just randomly going off. Right now, Facebook is full of it with people posting the death of the pet dog, cat, horse, etc. So, should we be sorting out training and or tranquillisers for every animal and person mentioned above?
Then there is the damage fireworks cause to local property. I still have a rocket stick laying on the wing of my landy, which is where it landed. That landy is right outside my front door and could have landed on me or my dogs as I leave the house. What goes up, must come down and as it is a firework, it could just set fire to someone's property, with a good chance of causing death by fire. There has this year already been four horses die in a barn fire caused by a firework. Not to mention the extra work the fire brigade have to do and the doctors and nurses fixing up the idiots that have bought their bangers and blown a hand or a finger or two off. While we're on the subject of idiots, you get the ones that enjoy taping up fireworks to animals roaming the street. Getting dogs to hold bangers in their mouth and the list goes on. I would love to get my hands on that sort of idiot.
If we have to have them, big public displays on the 5th of November only is the way to go. At least then we could take precautions for our pets, etc and start dosing them up on tranquilisers. Training has never worked with mine. I've tried and tried and spent good money with so-called trainers to no avail.
These displays should be only for those that want to go and have their eardrums dismembered and shout and scream a lot as the sky lights up with a bright sparkle. With a lot of these displays comes very loud music and a BBQ. That way, you can eat what you have killed with the traumatising banging of your firework. I hear Gypseys eat roasted hedgehog as quite a delicacy. I wonder how many get roasted alive under the big bonfire that has been growing for weeks.
Now don't get me wrong and think that I hate everything firework. I love to see a good display and I enjoy a beer or two while watching the sky light up. I'll be there with my earplug in my damaged ear (Done in 1970's Northern Ireland) and enjoying the display. The only trouble is, are my dogs have to stay at home with someone to look after them while I'm out. Also, while I'm watching the sky light up, I can't help think about all the wildlife that is getting traumatised while we all have a pint and watch a good display and enjoy ourselves. Then there's the smell of roasted hedgehog in the air.
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This one should sit on anyone's bucket list. I don't know about you, but sadly the wonderment of youth means fireworks are a kid thing. Fireworks pass me by. But Ottery St Mary's Tar Barrell Night is on another level. Do it.
https://www.tarbarrels.co.uk/
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=elrOWiqvAJ4 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=elrOWiqvAJ4)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mBv1Sc1-RTs (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mBv1Sc1-RTs)
Mad dogs and Englishmen.
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Sorry to hear this is an issue there too. I thought it was a redneck American phenomenon. I am surrounded by idiots who spend their entire welfare check on fireworks. This September, a huge horse farm burned to the ground as a result of an amateur fireworks display. They lost 4 horses that were in the barn lame, the other 2 dozen were turned out for the night. The place is a total loss.
I live in one of the "redneck" areas of the US and have as yet to see any of the issues all y'all seem to have such extent. We also have several horse ranches/farms in the area and haven't ever heard of anyone complaining about fireworks and horses to this extent either. Yes, once in a while you have some jerk toss firecrackers at a horse and rider and usually the person is fined. We have laws around here dealing with such. One of those horse farms hosts and annual display for those communities that are too small to afford them.
We are also in a part of the country that has a high propensity to be under burn bans and fireworks ban during high heat and droughts, this year was one of those years. Fireworks weren't completely banned but were cautioned. We had 1 fire and it was a hayfield.
We have owned cats and dogs who have tolerated fireworks and those that don't. We don't blame others for our animals issues, we take appropriate precautions. If someone purposely try to upset our animals that's another issue. Something I find interesting is that this issue with cats, dogs and fireworks wasn't an issue, like it is now, when I was growing up (and the fireworks were more powerful). Yet, for some reason it has been becoming an issue within the past 15 years or so.
We also live right next to the location where our community has its public display. The fireworks are literally about 3 football field lengths from our back door. Since we have animals that freak out with fireworks should I be demanding that the public display be banned as well, or at least located elsewhere?
IF fireworks are so out of control in your areas perhaps they should be banned. However, I do not think something, such as this, should be banned across the board because a minority have issues.
With the exception of 5 years, I have lived in this area my entire life and I can not think of a single time that an attempt has been made to ban fireworks altogether.
As to those injured by fireworks.. check your local records and I'm sure you'll find out the vast majority are self inflicted accidents. For those idiots it's their own fault, it doesn't mean everyone should be punished for it.
Let's look at a few facts; and I imagine that the ones below, percentage wise, are probably close to those in other countries, maybe not.
According to the US Consumer Product Safety Commission, per year an average of 9,000 people are treated for fireworks related injuries and 8 fatalities. Several of these are caused by mishaps at public displays. That's pretty low for a nation of over 329M people.
Now, let's compare this to automobiles.
Average number of car accidents in the .U.S. every year is 6 million. More than 90 people die in car accidents everyday. 3 million people in the U.S. are injured every year in car accidents. Around 2 million drivers in car accidents experience permanent injuries every year.
I have had 3 relatives killed in three separate auto accidents and 7 friends and acquaintances either killed or permanently injured in auto accidents.
On top of this, I find several aspects of autos annoying: excessive speeding, high powered LED lights, loud rumbling engines, big speaker systems that you can hear a block away, and so on.
So, shouldn't we be clamoring for at least a ban on privately owned autos? ???
The above doesn't take into account animals, however, in 1993 an analysis of "roadkill" was done within the New England states of the US. Merritt Clifton (editor of Animal People Newspaper) extrapolated the data and applied it to the entire US. He estimated that the following animals are being killed by motor vehicles in the United States annually: 41M squirrels, 26M cats, 22M rats, 19M opossums, 15M raccoons, 6M dogs, and 350,000 deer. This doesn't take into account those animals injured.
In the past 30 years we have had 3 pets killed by autos and 1 permanently injured. Based on this, I should be demanding that personal automobiles be banned? ???
In a nutshell, I have issues with a minority of people wanting to do something that affects an entire population, such as ban on the private use of fireworks, simply due to the reasons above.
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"So, shouldn't we be clamoring for at least a ban on privately owned autos? ???
The above doesn't take into account animals, however, in 1993 an analysis of "roadkill" was done within the New England states of the US. Merritt Clifton (editor of Animal People Newspaper) extrapolated the data and applied it to the entire US. He estimated that the following animals are being killed by motor vehicles in the United States annually: 41M squirrels, 26M cats, 22M rats, 19M opossums, 15M raccoons, 6M dogs, and 350,000 deer. This doesn't take into account those animals injured.
In the past 30 years we have had 3 pets killed by autos and 1 permanently injured. Based on this, I should be demanding that personal automobiles be banned? "
We have Highland Cattle grazing free around here , 800Kg . I don't see people aiming their cars at them to try and hit them or for that matter any of the pigs , ponies, Red deer , Roe Deer , cyclists etc etc . They do however let fire works of to annoy /stress and injure them . Just for fun !
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We have Highland Cattle grazing free around here , 800Kg . I don't see people aiming their cars at them to try and hit them or for that matter any of the pigs , ponies, Red deer , Roe Deer , cyclists etc etc . They do however let fire works of to annoy /stress and injure them . Just for fun !
We have the same thing happen here, and not just in re fireworks. When caught, those people are prosecuted under the "animal cruelty" laws. Don't you have laws over there for such?
I live in farm country, lots of cattle, horses, pigs, sheep, chickens and so on. I have raised all of the above and so have many others I know. Still, trying to ban fireworks due to the annoyance, stress and injuries caused to animals is not an issue. We take this seriously and prosecute. Some States, such as ours, have special law enforcement officials for such.
We don't go about trying to punish an entire populace for the actions of a few - at least the vast majority of us don't.
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That's probably our problem - lack of enforcement and weak punishment = no deterrent :shakeinghead
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We have Highland Cattle grazing free around here , 800Kg . I don't see people aiming their cars at them to try and hit them or for that matter any of the pigs , ponies, Red deer , Roe Deer , cyclists etc etc . They do however let fire works of to annoy /stress and injure them . Just for fun !
Forgot to mention... we have "free range" laws here. If someone runs into your livestock, either intentionally or accidentally, they are responsible and must compensate the livestock owner for any damage done to the animal. To help insure that livestock do not wander onto freeways and the turnpike the State is responsible for installing fencing.
As to people who intentionally run into smaller livestock, smaller wild animals, pets and even cyclists and runners and walkers - yes, we have those and they are prosecuted if found. Our animal cruelty laws do extend to those motorists who intentionally go out of their way to hit an animal that's on the road, raccoons, opossums, armadillos and turtles are especially susceptible to this.
Don't you have similar laws?
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That's probably our problem - lack of enforcement and weak punishment = no deterrent :shakeinghead
We don't have weak punishments, but we are undermanned. As an example, if you are caught with illegal fireworks the fine starts at $250, if caught firing them it doubles and can be even higher depending on the location. If your carelessness causes damage, such as fire, injury or death, you are held accountable. A few years ago a house caught on fire, due to fireworks, in a town near us. The house was a total loss. The fireworks were being fired during a time of year they are not permitted. The person responsible was arrested, charged, and heavily find; they were then sued by the homeowner for their loss and the county sued for their time and use of equipment, homeowner and county both won.
SWMBO told me to tell you about our animal cruelty law here. A few years ago it was rewritten. The State Legislator responsible for it is someone we know and I have worked with on a few things in the past. The original law had no real teeth, now it does. The minimum fine is $5,000 with a prison sentence of between 1 to 5 years. These penalties were increased due to an increased amount of dog fighting groups and dog baiting (using smaller, weaker animals as training bait).
When it comes to livestock, such as cattle, horses and sheep primarily, some of the States in the area are looking at reinstating a law that hasn't been around for decades!! "Cattle rustling" is on the rise again as is taking potshots at livestock with firearms. Most of the "rustling" is happening along the US/Mexico border. The law that's reinstatement is being considered is the ability of a livestock owner to "shoot first and ask questions later".
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This one should sit on anyone's bucket list. I don't know about you, but sadly the wonderment of youth means fireworks are a kid thing. Fireworks pass me by. But Ottery St Mary's Tar Barrell Night is on another level. Do it.
https://www.tarbarrels.co.uk/
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=elrOWiqvAJ4 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=elrOWiqvAJ4)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mBv1Sc1-RTs (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mBv1Sc1-RTs)
Mad dogs and Englishmen.
Went when I was a Student in Plymouth - absolute fantastic madness....