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Main Section => Welcome to our virtual Pub Meeting ... => Topic started by: Peter Holden on May 26, 2023, 12:32:21 PM
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Saw one for the first time actually in the flesh on the road in our village. I didnt have chance to stop and crawl all over it but it did look like the proper successor to the pre 2016 Defender
It had sales stickers from our local BMW franchise so they must be also selling Grenadiers
Peter
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BMW are sales outlets for a lot of Grenadiers globally - especially in the US if I recall. BMW engines, ZF 8 Speed transmission - those are really the only obviously high tech bits in it, so makes sense to have BMW support.
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:we need pics
;)
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We had one at Malvern last weekend...
They placed us by the LR Register stand...
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Loving the open board room warfare :essen
Looks great Mark - and I never thought I'd say that. I'm looking forward to my first spot in the wild too. I'm predicting the Waitrose car park...
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I'll have one at my house next week. If you fancy a trip out, you are welcome to come and have a look at it.
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Gawd, I'd love to if you had any time for a quick coffee and drool!
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I pulled up behind a Ineos Grenadier at a busy T Junction a few weeks back. It turned left and I right.
It did look the business, though SWMBO thought it a bit somber as it was predominately black in colour..
I’d certainly have one.
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I saw one on display at a steam and country fair a few weeks ago.
Was able to clamber inside and also lift the bonnet.
First impressions: it was big, felt solid and was well put together.
I liked it.
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I'm predicting the Waitrose car park...
No, Waitrose car park is reserved for the new "Defender".
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No, Waitrose car park is reserved for the new "Defender".
Can we have a ‘yawn’ emoji please Alan.
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Can we have a ‘yawn’ emoji please Alan.
Funnily enough, my local Waitrose car park (which just happens to be one of the town's main car parks) is exactly where I first spotted the new Defender a few years back. I'm hoping it won't let me down when it comes to Grenadier spotting.
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I saw one at Devon County Show last week and had a peer through the windows.
Looks nice, but I didn't see the price. I can't imagine it will be cheaper than the Asian 4x4s which start at 30k for a basic Hilux, or a Fully loaded DMax at 50k - hugely popular in some countries. Without the grenadier being made in the UK it feels like it's main USP no longer exists. It's just another big, expensive (probably) shiny square piece of metal made elsewhere in a world full of similar things.
Now JLR's 'Defender' has actually convinced quite a few people to buy it, it's not really an underdog any more.
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Wearing both hats, all I would say is both vehicles have a place. Its not built in the UK for simple economical reasons. People need to remember that we manufacture very little here - almost all our car assembly is based on components built in other markets, so where it is all thrown together is largely irrelevant. It was designed and engineered here (and in Austria). Quite a few components are made in the UK. Both Defender and Discovery (supposedly archetypal British vehicles) are both built in Slovakia...
Those who want it will want it and those who don't will chose to buy something different. As I say repeatedly - the Defender is phenomenally capable and impressive. Its just not my cup of tea. The Grenadier ticks an awful lot of boxes for me. I like it and I want one!
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It was designed and engineered here (and in Austria).
I'm intrigued by that comment - I thought all of the engineering was done by Magna Steyr. Was some done elsewhere?
Chris.
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Austria = Steyr Puch?
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Its now called Magna Styer and they are pretty much global now. It is absolutely a UK designed vehicle under Toby Ecuyer. Engineering has been done all over the place including UK, France, Germany and of course Graz in Austria. Magna also did some work in Turin - I met them while there in October 2020 on the Giro support. Amazing and dedicated people.
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There's an article on the Grenadier in De Auto, club glossy of the KNAC (2023-2), a sort of posh ANWB, the Dutch RAC I guess. I can't seem to find it online and there's no mention of a website in the colophon. It's in Dutch, so I'm not taking photographs and will confine myself to some highlights.
Erik Kouwenhoven, the author, a freelance car journalist, starts of with an impression, a 3-day stay in Northern England and Scotland. "On the positive side, we had only one downpoor, on the negative, it lasted three days. Short, ideal circumstances for testing an all terrain vehicle." He describes it as a mishmash of Defender, Discovery, BMW and G-Wagen. It's followed by the success story of multi-everything Jimmy Ratcliffe, who "invented" the Grenadier to increase the brand awareness of his chemical company Ineos. He named it after his favorite pub, which he subsequently bought. Of course he would. He has already spent up to 1,5 billion on the Real Defender: on law suits by Land Rover over the strong resemblance, BMW engines, SMART factory in France… But he is supposed to spend some 4 billion in total for being able to propose 3 models. Then the usual technical positves: built like it was granite hewn, comfortable enough chassis for long drives, hardly any body roll, diesel and petrol engines with more than sufficient power and traction, fighter jet-like interior, with all those buttons and clocks front, top and bottom, knobs, both the turning and flicking variety, suited for use with gloves on, front and rear axle blockable independent of central diff, roomy, hosing-out-resistant interior. This is not meant to be an exhaustive enumeration. Short, "the Defender Land Rover should have built right from the start." But there are negatives too, steering being the second biggest problem: vague, especially in the sort of driving straight ahead position, with a gigantuous turning circle, not suited for the lifestyle type clientage it will undoubtedly also have. Biggest mother of all problems numero uno of course being its price of a wallet-busting 160.000 euro… (Not that the New Defender, or the Old one, for that matter, were a steal.)
(Kouwenhoven must have missed the entry-level Utility Wagon at € 68.650 (inlcuding VAT!) at Hedin Automotive: https://www.hedinautomotive.nl/ineos/modellen/grenadier (https://www.hedinautomotive.nl/ineos/modellen/grenadier).
Richard
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Hi Richard,
Interesting article.
To counter some of the comments... Steering - yes - was not great, but now greatly improved. Its aimed fair and square as a workhorse, so if people chose to buy it as a shopping trolley or a Chelsea tractor, more fool them in my view. Its not a vehicle for all.
The steering is electric hydraulic working on a traditional chassis mounted steering box. By that I mean it has a standalone electric pump running the hydraulic pressure for the power steering. Some early vehicles had some issues with pressure settings on that which made them interesting at speed to put it mildly. Off road it was even more challenging! That is now sorted on series production vehicles, but as we all know, a steering box is much tougher than a rack system, but will never be as positive as independent suspension and a rack.
Costs - I'd challenge that Euro 160,000. I can get a Defender up to that sort of area if I take first editions and add every option possible, but a top of the range Grenadier tops out at around half that figure, so I'm not sure where those values came from. I've just priced up a Fieldmaster edition and even when adding every bolt on I can think of, I'm not able to get past about £84,000. I could go a bit higher with accessories I suppose. A standard Station Wagon comes in at just over £58,000 here. Expensive I know, but not for what it is in my view.
Yes - I am biased - I have been working with the Grenadier for the past 4 years, but in that time, I've done well over 20,000km and much of that in extreme off road. I love it!
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And I still like my Land Rovers too!
If I didn't, I would not currently own 4 of them...
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Hi Diffwhine,
Thanks. I suspected you might have your say on the matter ;-) The article doesn't mention the date of the test drive, so could be they tested an earlier model.
As for the prices, those are the prices over here, increased by what is known as BPM, Tax on passenger cars and motorcycles (and VAT of course), based on CO2-emissions in gr/km. According to a calculation model on the site of the Dutch fisc on BPM, for an Ineos Grenadier with petrol engine (364 gr/km), the BPM amounts to, you better sit down, € 109.714… https://www.belastingdienst.nl/wps/wcm/connect/nl/bpm/content/personenauto-bpm-tarief-berekenen#huidig-tarief-personenauto-2 (https://www.belastingdienst.nl/wps/wcm/connect/nl/bpm/content/personenauto-bpm-tarief-berekenen#huidig-tarief-personenauto-2) (the first table on that page, the second one is for hybrids). Take the emission 364, subtract the figure in column 1, multiply with column 4, add column 3.
Richard
Costs - I'd challenge that Euro 160,000. I can get a Defender up to that sort of area if I take first editions and add every option possible, but a top of the range Grenadier tops out at around half that figure, so I'm not sure where those values came from. I've just priced up a Fieldmaster edition and even when adding every bolt on I can think of, I'm not able to get past about £84,000. I could go a bit higher with accessories I suppose. A standard Station Wagon comes in at just over £58,000 here. Expensive I know, but not for what it is in my view.
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^^^ taking that into account, I don't understand the 68 something thousand euro for the Utility Wagon. That must be an error…
Richard
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O, right, the 68 thousand something is for a Utility Wagon with "grey" registration (called "grey" because the papers used to be grey in colour). The plates are not grey, just plain yellow with black lettering. The grey registration, a Dutch peculiarity I think, is for commercial vehicles. An exemple: you take your normal yellow registration Discovery, rip out the back seats, weld in a partition behind the front seats, pay a visit to the RDW (DVLA), and lo and behold you have a grey registration Discovery. Admittedly, I oversimplified a bit. Grey registration vehicles are, here's the crux, BPM exempt and you pay 25% of yellow registration road tax!
Richard
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Spotted my first one in the wilds of Oxfordshire this morning. Looked rather tasty in green.
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I have seen quite a few on the roads around North Yorkshire on my travels - you definitely have to look twice to realise what they are. I saw one close up at a dealership in Skipton a while ago, and to be honest, it looked quite impressive. Obviously new 'Parking Rules' apply.....
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I've seen two today at the Staffordshire County Show, a 2 seater and a 4 seater, prices started around £50K for the 2 seater and around £58 for a 4 seater. Outside it looked very good a bit on the bulky side but acceptable. Inside was not so nice the centre consul was like a box sitting next to you and the switches in the roof made it look like an aircraft cockpit, not sure if they were all functional but looked over the top.
I've not driven one but I'm on the Grenadier FB page and there are reports of issues with the steering, not sure what exactly it is, maybe Mark (Diffwhine) can give us an idea.
Would I buy one I'm not sure.
RobS
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..... there are reports of issues with the steering, not sure what exactly it is ....
I`ve heard the steering is very slow e.g. lots of turns lock to lock
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Well...
I've just driven one 150 miles today (a combination of motorway, country roads and the delightful A303) and still love it!
The cockpit design is deliberate and works well. Basically all the big switches in the roof o the rear of the console are power distribution control. This is for anything like winch power control, exterior roof lighting, light bars, beacons and so on. Forward of that you have DSC off (as all modern vehicles seem to have), Hill descent control, axle diff locks and so on. There's also a wading button which turns off parking sensors, cooling fans and so on.
The steering is light and takes a bit of getting used to. People have got very used to a positive feel from EPAS and modern steering racks. This is a steering box, so less positive perhaps. But - hey - we are all used to driving Land Rovers!
What is funny is when people in Defenders wave at you and then realise that its not a Defender. They fly past pretending to ignore you!
This vehicle is off to South Africa tomorrow and an overlander is driving it all the way back.
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Looks good and I would love to have a go in one. Will wait for a while and see what comes up on the second market.. I hate depreciation on new vehicles and also see what , if any faults show up if any.
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I checked the build page, $71,500 base price for us Yanks; https://ineosgrenadier.com/en/us/the-vehicle/vehicle-configurator
Mark(diffwhine) Put in a good word for me if they need a test driver over here for me! :first Hey, don't laugh, my blog has gone over 90,000 page views! :tiphat
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So I just did a build, if money was no object, I'm a simple guy chose the Trailmaster option, came up to $81,055.00 of course we don't get the diesel......... :thud I was thinking of the factory winch install at $2,000 might be worth it but didn't chose it.
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Well...
I've just driven one 150 miles today (a combination of motorway, country roads and the delightful A303) and still love it! ....
Hi Mark, what a hard life you must lead, I don`t envy you at all :pinocchio
I really like the look of the Grenadier, it's different and yet somehow familiar. And, unlike other modern SUV`s, its distinctive and for me that counts for a lot. A very very tiny criticism though, those inboard front lights look a bit odd, I`d move them out to make a twin set.
And in spite of any problems it may have, what a great place to start from, how much better will the next generation be :first
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The winch is quite a tool! You need to order it as an option - its not available as an accessory.
I have theory about winches which many may not agree with. I should add that having driven twice from London to Cape Town and once from London to the Eastern Siberian seaboard, I am yet to regret not having had a winch on any of those expeditions...
A winch on the front is a bit limiting. I like a winch on the back so I can pull myself back out of the poo I've got myself in to. I can also use the same winch to pull a following vehicle through the poo if I've got through it OK. I'd only want one on the front if I'm trying to cross the Darien Gap. I think the Red Winch rear mount demountable winch they offer would be my choice. Slots into a 2" receiver on the rear and when not needed - keep it in the shed at home. Cheaper too!
Going completely OT here, I priced up a winch on a new Defender last night...
I think quite a lot will be bought for pose value as Chelsea Tractors, but I think those sort of buyers will realise that its not right for that purpose. Its no shopping trolley. My guess is that once the rush is over, quite a few people who bought for style over function will be looking to offload quite soon. I'm watching out for one of those, or one of the pre production ones that are homologated and legal for sale. Not sure if any will become available though.
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Hi Mark, what a hard life you must lead, I don`t envy you at all :pinocchio
I really like the look of the Grenadier, it's different and yet somehow familiar. And, unlike other modern SUV`s, its distinctive and for me that counts for a lot. A very very tiny criticism though, those inboard front lights look a bit odd, I`d move them out to make a twin set.
And in spite of any problems it may have, what a great place to start from, how much better will the next generation be :first
Believe me... my life ain't perfect! That said, to get paid to test drive and support a brand new 4x4 is hardly onerous!
Good philosophy though - give them / us time to develop it. My wife made some constructive criticism about it today which was interesting and will be fed back to those who need to know. I know people listen which for a car manufacturer has to be good.
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DW, could you put up a pic of a Grenadier with the absolute minimum of "options"?
I want to like it - through utter disillusion with JLR - but it just seems too bulky and heavy for me.
I would prefer it without an RAI, side runners, roof rack, or blobby bits attached to the doors.
The Toyota-esqe inner headlights would look better out of the front grille too.
However, I think the killer for me, for everyday use is its width. (See Strang's photo above, of it parked next to a Defender).
Ideal for crossing Africa but perhaps a pain in British car parks?
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new "Defender" width (mirrors in) 1996mm
Grenadier width (without mirrors) 1930mm
(Original Defender is narrower however 1791mm)
All new vehicles seem to be bloated.
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I was comparing with the Classic Defender.😉
Both of the newer vehicles are too wide.
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What is 8 inches between friends ???
Don't answer that.
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New vehicles are wide to allow them to have side-impact protection. You have effectively got a crumple zone down the side of the vehicle.
Fancy doing this in an old Defender?
https://youtube.com/shorts/5vEKRHICOTg?feature=share
Chris.
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New vehicles are wide to allow them to have side-impact protection.
The problem being that the width of car parking spaces has not been increased to suit.
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This looks car park friendly and quite fun for less than half the price:
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This looks car park friendly and quite fun for less than half the price:
Is there still a waiting list for them?
The original was capable off road and then some.
On road it was tiring on all but short journeys.
1999-up new car launch have rocketed in price, where as you could not give them away at one stage.
I thought I saw a gren in the flesh the other day but as it neared it was g wagon
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very different kettle of fish, they are fun, small and sadly no longer imported to the uk (terrible emissions) they carried on for a bit as a "commercial" but even these are drying up so grab one now if you can
https://cars.suzuki.co.uk/new-cars/jimny/
Of no use if you want to tow anything beyond a small trailer
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very different kettle of fish, they are fun, small and sadly no longer imported to the uk (terrible emissions) they carried on for a bit as a "commercial" but even these are drying up so grab one now if you can
https://cars.suzuki.co.uk/new-cars/jimny/
Of no use if you want to tow anything beyond a small trailer
I didn't know they'd stopped importing them - shame! I quite like the no nonsense fun angle and back to brick looks.
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UK never got the diesel version of the last variant either.
I think crash safety as well as emissions saw its demise, sounds not unlike the defender?????
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It's all about the emission quota, Suzuki are still in the past when it comes to electric vehicles so the engine in the Jimny cannot get through our regs as they have nothing to off-set it's emissions against. To bring them in they have to pay a significant increase in duty so that's why they were restricted or even they could have stopped now.
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This looks car park friendly and quite fun for less than half the price:
SWMBO and I test drove one of those when they first arrived. It was an SZ5 ( Suzuki's "top spec") and was enormous fun. Priced at around £15,000 up to £18,000 at the time if I remember, but I think that was for one with an auto box.
Now, our Suzuki dealer has about 4 on the forecourt which are the Light Commercial Vehicle (LCV) variant. Pretty basic spec, no autobox option, and about as roomy as a Ford Fiesta van. They are all priced at around £27,000 - £28,000. :thud
Still fun to knock about in, good off road, and SWMBO thinks they're really cute, but in truth they are just a toy. At £12,000 to £15,000 new they'd be better value as a toy - if you've the cash burning through your pocket......
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Somewhat randomly, I just passed my first one ever on the road. It was exactly the same colour as the one I uploaded up-thread. But somehow not quite as impressive in the flesh - looked very dinky and a bit silly frankly! As you say, for low teens, it's probably quite fun (and I saw a video with Jonny Smith getting stuck in a lake in one that confirmed this), but over £25k?! Er, maybe not!
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The current Jimney is a cracking little vehicle, but as said, no longer available here. I'm running 4 on a trial with a wildlife charity in East Africa to replace the aging Defenders. They are performing admirably. So far the only complaint is lack of range due to the small fuel tank and nowhere to safely stow jerry cans.
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The current Jimney is a cracking little vehicle, but as said, no longer available here. I'm running 4 on a trial with a wildlife charity in East Africa to replace the aging Defenders. They are performing admirably. So far the only complaint is lack of range due to the small fuel tank and nowhere to safely stow jerry cans.
Fascinating as ever Mark.
Are you keeping tabs on customer feedback on the Grenadier? So far it seems to be the non-centring steering, the sticking out left footwell and lack of lumbar support I've heard of. Someone in the owner group had a bad experience with the external metalwork in a car wash, but that might be specific to one or two car washes and their use of Traffic Film Remover. It's fascinating seeing a brand new, yet somehow familiar vehicle pass into users hands.
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If I pick up a comment that is not about where its built or how it looks which I think might help, I will feed it back to one of the Product Team - yes. I did that yesterday when my wife commented about the lack of B Pillar seat belt height adjustment on the front seats. All the items you note James, are well documented and known about from several reviews and our own feedback having in my case driven the best part of 20,000km so far in them. I reckon probably 3/4 of that has been off road as well.
Its not perfect. No vehicle is as we all know. Some issues are limited by design. Your footwell protrusion on RHD vehicles being a case in point. BMW supply the engine with Diesel Particulate Filter in one place only and to reengineer that would not be cost effective. As the engine needs to be high and as far back as possible to provide ground clearance and impact protection, there isn't much that can be done about it. I just get used to it, but I can see some longer people than the short stumpy git that is me might find it less comfortable.
One thing I do fundamentally disagree with is any suggestion that the seats are uncomfortable. They are by far the most comfortable seats I've ever had in an off road vehicle. I have a very bad back and use lumbar support regularly on both our Range Rover and our Discovery. We did not need any additional lumbar support on a 150 mile drive yesterday.
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Cheers Mark, I didn't mean my comments as criticism by the way - I just find it interesting and am in utter awe at a company going from chemical production to producing a brand new car fit for 2023 from scratch.
I'm sure you're right re the seats. I find both my Landies more comfortable than my somewhat smart (if ageing) Beemer and only need an aftermarket lumbar support thingy in the latter. As for the footwell, I had that issue with a 5 Series estate and it was a bit of a pain as I have sciatica in my left leg. At first it bothered me so much, I considered removing at least the protective plastic to give me a few millimetres more space, but of course, in time I got used to it.
I wish we had something between the Jimny and the Grenadier personally - a £35-40k truck that looked like a brick but wasn't quite so top spec. And I wish the Grenadier well. It's a great thing to be trying and it's impossible not to be impressed by the overwhelmingly positive customer feedback in the owners' groups.
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I'd love it's bigger brother - the G Wagon but that's well out of my price range. :tiphat :-X :-X
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My back play up from time to time but driving the Series is never a problem and the most comfortable place to sit when it starts is the drivers seat of an M49/59 Berlingo
Peter
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This looks car park friendly and quite fun for less than half the price:
So to be clear this is no longer available new. I thought it was a much improved version of the one that went before and ceased in the uk market.
DW I have just had a lightbulb, re the grenadier, maybe it could be sold as a very basic ckd like a Caterham kit, most who express an interest are handy with the spanners.
Peter one of the most back friendly rides, if a little low to get in and out of, I have found to be a saab 900 before vauxhall took them over. Ditto jag xj pre ford.
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So to be clear this is no longer available new. I thought it was a much improved version of the one that went before and ceased in the uk market.
DW I have just had a lightbulb, re the grenadier, maybe it could be sold as a very basic ckd like a Caterham kit, most who express an interest are handy with the spanners.
Peter one of the most back friendly rides, if a little low to get in and out of, I have found to be a saab 900 before vauxhall took them over. Ditto jag xj pre ford.
Just the 2 seat commercial Jimny is available, but probably not for long. Test drove one when they first appeared. Look the part but pretty cramped and noisy on a long run. Could really have done with an extra gear, but not really built to be thrashed along a motorway.
This kit was also available https://www.autoexpress.co.uk/suzuki/jimny/105254/new-body-kit-turns-suzuki-jimny-into-a-mini-land-rover-defender
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There were two key points that attracted me to the Grenadier when it was first announced;
1. Affordable. (Do I recall a figure of £30k being touted? It's clear the current vehicle has suffered immense feature creep)
2. Made in Britain. (Everyone will have their own view on this, but it is important to me, especially when it's been marketed so.)
I feel misled, and what I saw in person didnt inspire me any more than the new Defender. Expensive things for rich people - the exact opposite of what, for me, a Land Rover was.
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While I agree with the sentiments, I think that we have to take into account multiple factors in having a significantly more expensive vehicle than was probably touted about (by the media I might add - not INEOS). In my time it has always been assumed to be in the £45,000 - to £60,000 area, so allowing for Brexit, rampant inflation, Covid 19 delays, restrictions and so on, such mission creep is understandable. A good quality 1 tonne pickup will retails at over £40,000 + VAT these days. My view is that as a long term investment, its one of the best options on the market, because it really is built to last and therefore a worthy successor to L319 Defender and our own earlier favourites. Were it built in the UK with all the investment that would have required, I dare say it would have been even more expensive. As it is, its built in one of the most modern automotive factories in Europe, by experienced workers who know how to build to the standards laid down by other manufacturers - in this case Mercedes Benz and the Smart cars. I'm sorry, but who in their right might would turn down the opportunity to effectively just take over such an existing operation rather than build from scratch?
A reminder that both the current Defender and the Discovery 5 are both built in Slovakia, not the UK, so made in Britain arguments, while important to a few Brits, is meaningless to the rest of the planet with far bigger priorities than where it is built. Every vehicle these days is not really built any more anyway. They are assembled from a large pile of components coming from different suppliers all over the world. This is simple economics, not sentiment - the best quality at the best possible price. If we as a country cannot meet that requirement, then its our loss, but arguably no fault of any motor manufacturer. A positive, is that apart from having being designed here, a lot of the components that make up the Grenadier are made here. I note that some of the major items supposedly made elsewhere, are made from components from British suppliers. One of the big winners is based in Northern Ireland.
And of course - yes I am biased, but after putting up with 30 + years of quality problems with Land Rovers built in the UK at ludicrously high prices, I can be. I still do a lot of work with INEOS and have a great deal of respect for the company and what they are working to achieve. The amount of interest I'm hearing from global fleet users, tells me that in essence, Sir Jim Ratcliffe had the right idea and its on the right track.
Still love my old Land Rovers though (and so does Sir Jim Ratcliffe!).
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I'm probably equally conflicted - I partly grew up in Bridgend, which was where the Grenadier was going to be built before the French Smart factory option appeared. I witnessed the huge impact on the town and its environs when the original Ford and Sony plants were built in the 80s - transforming a dying backwater that wouldn't have looked out of place in a Hovis ad and bringing quality jobs and confidence, which rippled outwards into the wider economy.
I think to some extent, Ineos faces the same own goal issues that plagued the Jaguar XJ220. In particular, people (like me) really bought into all the early PR noises - a no-frills, go anywhere, British built Defender replacement, with all that car's weaknesses (eg lack of steel galvanising) addressed and priced between £30-45k (depending on engine and spec). That proposition ticked a hell of a lot of boxes and I made a mental note that one day I would own one. Famously, when the XJ220 was finally launched, it didn't have half of the show car's features - in particular the 4 wheel driven V12 was now a 2 wheel drive, turbocharged V6 that couldn't reach the speed boasted about in the car's name. And the price had skyrocketed far beyond the original target customer base's wallets.
It may well be that by ultimately producing a car that's in a similar price bracket to the new Defender (albeit without the looks - how big is that duck bill of a front bumper?!) from an existing car factory, Ineos is able to maximise its profit per truck, thereby guaranteeing the operation's long term future. And if that's the case, good luck to them. I hope they're so profitable that one day they are able to justify producing a cheaper truck with fewer frills and then people like me can realistically aspire to own. Maybe like the one that got us all interested when the idea was first announced.
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If I pick up a comment that is not about where its built or how it looks which I think might help, I will feed it back to one of the Product Team - yes. I did that yesterday when my wife commented about the lack of B Pillar seat belt height adjustment on the front seats. All the items you note Gareth, are well documented and known about from several reviews and our own feedback having in my case driven the best part of 20,000km so far in them. I reckon probably 3/4 of that has been off road as well.
Its not perfect. No vehicle is as we all know. Some issues are limited by design. Your footwell protrusion on RHD vehicles being a case in point. BMW supply the engine with Diesel Particulate Filter in one place only and to reengineer that would not be cost effective. As the engine needs to be high and as far back as possible to provide ground clearance and impact protection, there isn't much that can be done about it. I just get used to it, but I can see some longer people than the short stumpy git that is me might find it less comfortable.
One thing I do fundamentally disagree with is any suggestion that the seats are uncomfortable. They are by far the most comfortable seats I've ever had in an off road vehicle. I have a very bad back and use lumbar support regularly on both our Range Rover and our Discovery. We did not need any additional lumbar support on a 150 mile drive yesterday.
I read occasionally that the lack of self centering steering is putting some people off, apologies if it has already been mentioned here. I haven’t driven one myself but would like to hear your comments on this. I assume it’s something you would get used to fairly quickly? I’m very tempted after inspecting one at the dealers but parking in the average car park with such a big vehicle and with apparently a large turning circle might also be putting people off, again look forward to your comments.
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The steering and handling may take a bit of getting used to, but for anybody who drives an old Defender or a Series, it should be of no concern!
It is a big beast - just as any Land Cruiser, Defender or anything like that. Anybody tried to park a Y61 Patrol in a Tesco parking space? They were never intended to be shopping trolleys, so if people want to use them as shopping trolleys or Chelsea tractors, in my view more fool them. For me, its an expedition workhorse, built to do a job and although not perfect, I reckon its a damn good effort for a first attempt. There is plenty of improvement in the pipeline.
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. Anybody tried to park a Y61 Patrol in a Tesco parking space? They were never intended to be shopping trolleys, so if people want to use them as shopping trolleys or Chelsea tractors, in my view more fool them.
If my experience at Sainsburys this morning with my pre-pro One Ten is anything to go by, maybe using the Gren as a shopping trolley might not be a problem.
Can't think why they avoid parking near an old Land Rover.....😂
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I always keep my sidesteps down. They're a good deterrent against careless door openers.
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…….I like cars that have a character or ones that others find challenging but that are fundamentally robust and I believe this is robust. I wouldn’t worry if it had slow steering ….I would be driving accordingly, I certainly wouldn’t be accelerating hard out of a tight turn as I saw one car testing youtuber recently do. I positively enjoy the need to think about engaging diffs etc rather than having it all done for me.
I love the detailing, the roof switches for future mods and the 'polite' horn for cyclists. Any car that has 6 wheel studs each end an axle gets my vote. Anyway, I hope to have a proper look in the coming weeks when a friend of mine is being asked to fit one of his Roof Tents to one.
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The steering and handling may take a bit of getting used to, but for anybody who drives an old Defender or a Series, it should be of no concern!
It is a big beast - just as any Land Cruiser, Defender or anything like that. Anybody tried to park a Y61 Patrol in a Tesco parking space? They were never intended to be shopping trolleys, so if people want to use them as shopping trolleys or Chelsea tractors, in my view more fool them. For me, its an expedition workhorse, built to do a job and although not perfect, I reckon its a damn good effort for a first attempt. There is plenty of improvement in the pipeline.
Thanks and agree with your last comment. I’m sure there will be plenty of people who will buy them who like to think they are crossing the Okavanko Delta but are actually on the M25, nothing wrong with that however it might be interesting to see how many are back up for sale within a year after finding them too big to use for city driving.
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If my experience at Sainsburys this morning with my pre-pro One Ten is anything to go by, maybe using the Gren as a shopping trolley might not be a problem.
Can't think why they avoid parking near an old Land Rover.....😂
exile I saw that picture and found myself saying like the bloke off 'little Britain' I want that one!
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exile I saw that picture and found myself saying like the bloke off 'little Britain' I want that one!
Are you sure 2286?
A One Ten with a 2.25 (2.3) engine, all black vynil interior, black rubber mats instead of carpet, and no power steering?
Wouldn't you prefer the "County" version with its cloth "Defender-style" seating, V8 engine, PAS, trendy side decals and one of the "new for 1983" exciting colours, instead of boring old "Series" Limestone?
Almost no-one wanted one like this in 1983, which is why you will be pushed to find another like it.
However, if you are mad enough....... :stars
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Are you sure 2286?
A One Ten with a 2.25 (2.3) engine, all black vynil interior, black rubber mats instead of carpet, and no power steering?
My S1 109 has the same (5MB 2.25) engine, Vynide interior, rubber mats and no power steering, what’s not to like :RHD
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I've watched a number of videos about the Grenadier now and I haven't yet found one that answers my main question. What does the "Toot" button, friendly horn actually sound like......
Craig.
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My S1 109 has the same (5MB 2.25) engine, Vynide interior, rubber mats and no power steering, what’s not to like :RHD
I agree John.
That's why I like my early One Ten.
It is the most Series-like coiler of them all - especially with its sliding windows and selectable 2/4 wheel drive.
(It's a bit slimmer than the Grenadier as well..... ;))
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I've watched a number of videos about the Grenadier now and I haven't yet found one that answers my main question. What does the "Toot" button, friendly horn actually sound like......
Craig.
I'll have to record one for you! You have the option of three toots, 2 toots or one toot when you tap the button. Its just a low volume horn to tell walkers, cyclists and so on that you are there without giving them both barrels of a main vehicle horn. Remember that INEOS also own a small cycling team...
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wknt-bZq0Fg
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Are you sure 2286?
A One Ten with a 2.25 (2.3) engine, all black vynil interior, black rubber mats instead of carpet, and no power steering?
Wouldn't you prefer the "County" version with its cloth "Defender-style" seating, V8 engine, PAS, trendy side decals and one of the "new for 1983" exciting colours, instead of boring old "Series" Limestone?
Almost no-one wanted one like this in 1983, which is why you will be pushed to find another like it.
However, if you are mad enough....... :stars
Exile without sounding like a regressive cumudgenly luddite. The simpler the better.
I do like heavy oil over petrol. I have actively requested manual steering over power in the past.
Having stood next to umpteen 'modern' vehicles that have been consigned to the bin as they cannot be diagnosed or fixed economically or at all.
Yesterday I was standing next to a 2001 honda pan european 33k miles from new, police owned and maintained.
In daily use.
The rear brake caliper was seized on so hard that it had cracked the disc with the heat.
The three piston were eventually worked free, then it lost all electrical power completely.
Battery was fine, just nothing worked. No immobiliser but that was how it appeared.
VW passat with electric hanbrake piggy backed onto mechanical caliper, they were £500 a piece 5 years ago.
DW I have broken my duck, and seen a gren in the flesh.
It was DBG with a white roof. ST9 postcode, not sure if it was private owner or works.
Looked better in the flesh. So there is faint praise.
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Hi 2286,
I recently commented here about my "tidy" Land Rover Freelander that failed its MOT due to the tail-gate locking mechanism ... my memory banks are reluctant to engage, but no doubt its in my posting history. My LR expert offered me £25, later raised to £50. I eventually accepted £100 from a "yard and cabin" dealer, who advertises that he buys any car.
The locking system involves lowering the tail gate window, and costs several hundred pounds. Perhaps I should have removed the lock, and fitted a pair of "Mr Bean" coal house door bolts and one padlock? But that would have left the tail gate window wide open.
An unrelated lesson learned ... do not put £100+ worth of fuel in the tank immediately prior to presenting a car for an MOT.
602
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Sadly I’ve crossed the Grenadier off my wish list for the simple reason that the rear seat don’t fold down flat with the floor. A massive design oversight in my humble opinion. I’m sure they could have found other space to fit the batteries etc in such a big vehicle, perhaps under the rear floor like Volvo.
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Sadly I’ve crossed the Grenadier off my wish list for the simple reason that the rear seat don’t fold down flat with the floor. A massive design oversight in my humble opinion. I’m sure they could have found other space to fit the batteries etc in such a big vehicle, perhaps under the rear floor like Volvo.
The same ailment afflicts the L405 Range Rover. In the P38, the seats could be folded flat, and then rolled forward to give a reasonably long flat floor.
The L405, pah, they just fold to nearly flat, but not that useful, and they certainly don't tip forwards.
One of a number of retrograde steps.
Chris.
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602 hasp and staple for the lock and a canvas flap in place of the window for the freelander.
Marky Volvo 940 estate had super flat load area. The the head rests in the rear stowing themselves was the magic bit.
The two stage bonnet hinge to allow it to raise vertical for larger tinkering.
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Quite like this front end redesign.
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Portals too!
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Have you ordered one yet Calum?
Peter
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Random thought: how much is the road tax?
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Portals too!
I wasn't aware that one was public yet. Its quite a beast!