S2C Forum Archives
Main Section => Welcome to our virtual Pub Meeting ... => Topic started by: Worf on March 04, 2020, 10:54:16 AM
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They have now published the "consultation" paper on what will be happening to petrol in the UK. (As we all know, "consultation" means that what they are proposing is what will happen, despite any opposition.)
LINKY (https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/869814/introducing-e10-petrol-consultation.pdf)
My reading of this, is that in future all "premium" fuel (currently E5 95 octane) will be labeled E10 and contain up to 10% ethanol.
If we want to avoid this percentage and potential damage to our vehicles we will either have to use some sort of "ethanol killer" additive, or switch to using "super" (97 octane) which will contain up to 5% ethanol (E5). so more expensive for us either way.
AFAIK Esso Super still contains no Ethanol and I use it for all garden equipment which seems to hate the stuff, but I dont know if this situation will continue. Apparently if you want to avoid ethanol completely then you need to move to the Outer Hebrides !
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Which of our engines at risk,
Rover engines 1.6/2.0/2.25/2.5/3.5/3.9/4.2 and other non rover engines now fitted
does this have anything to do with leaded/unleaded engines :stars
Do I need super in my lawn mower :stars
Sorry if these is a stupid question :-[
Found this-
https://www.burkesbackyard.com.au/blogs/don-burkes-blog/petrol-warning/
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https://www.footmanjames.co.uk/blog/e10-petrol-threat-for-classic-cars
https://www.acea.be/uploads/publications/ACEA_E10_compatibility.pdf
- Land Rover engines pre 1996 :agh
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Which of our engines at risk,
Rover engines 1.6/2.0/2.25/2.5/3.5/3.9/4.2 and other non rover engines now fitted
does this have anything to do with leaded/unleaded engines :stars
Do I need super in my lawn mower :stars
Sorry if these is a stupid question :-[
Found this-
https://www.burkesbackyard.com.au/blogs/don-burkes-blog/petrol-warning/
AFAIK applies to all of "our" engines
Nothing to do with leaded/unleaded
I always use Esso Super in my lawnmowers/strimmers/other garden stuff after massive probs with E5 turning internal rubber bits into mush (and before anyone says it is poor rubber, I replaced it with genuine mower manufacturers stuff and it did the same thing - no probs since using super, but I know some commercial gardeners now only use "special" fuel)
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https://www.footmanjames.co.uk/blog/e10-petrol-threat-for-classic-cars
https://www.acea.be/uploads/publications/ACEA_E10_compatibility.pdf
:coffee
Those are both dated 2018. The government appear to have now moved on to the options I quoted: ie. no 95 octane E5. Unless I am reading it wrong. ???
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So what happens? The stuff attacks rubber/sythetic rubber parts? - I know there have been problems with E5 fuels - I think one carburettor parts manufacturer had to change material to something suitable but they've been back on sale for some time and as far as I know they're OK on E5 in the long term. Why if the stuff is OK with 5% ethanol is another 5% going to render it soluble? I could understand perhaps if it was 100% but another 5%?
Corrosion - Somehow I can't see pure ethanol dissolving mazac - so is it due to additional water that the ethanol will attract? Is it exacerbated in engines which stand for a long while between use? - or fuel which again stands in poorly sealed containers? My own experience of that was that the combustable parts of the fuel seemed to evaporate leaving something which wouldn't fire easily. Running my lawnmower on minimum fuel and filling each time I used it solved that problem - as no doubt would a different fuel cap gasket (without 3 holes in it!)
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So what happens? The stuff attacks rubber/sythetic rubber parts? - I know there have been problems with E5 fuels - I think one carburettor parts manufacturer had to change material to something suitable but they've been back on sale for some time and as far as I know they're OK on E5 in the long term. Why if the stuff is OK with 5% ethanol is another 5% going to render it soluble? I could understand perhaps if it was 100% but another 5%?
Corrosion - Somehow I can't see pure ethanol dissolving mazac - so is it due to additional water that the ethanol will attract? Is it exacerbated in engines which stand for a long while between use? - or fuel which again stands in poorly sealed containers? My own experience of that was that the combustable parts of the fuel seemed to evaporate leaving something which wouldn't fire easily. Running my lawnmower on minimum fuel and filling each time I used it solved that problem - as no doubt would a different fuel cap gasket (without 3 holes in it!)
Plenty of stuff regarding this on t'internet. Basically, the more the ethanol percentage, the worse it gets. This for example https://amklassiek.nl/en/ethanol-killers/2018/02/20/ (https://amklassiek.nl/en/ethanol-killers/2018/02/20/)
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*watch out for the small geographical caveat*
Esso super unleaded petrol (Synergy Supreme+ Unleaded 97) is ethanol free (except in Devon, Cornwall, the Teesside area and Scotland)
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*watch out for the small geographical caveat*
Esso super unleaded petrol (Synergy Supreme+ Unleaded 97) is ethanol free (except in Devon, Cornwall, the Teesside area and Scotland)
Any other brands to look out for when away from Esso stations ???
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Might be worth seeing what the Federation of British Historic Vehicle Clubs (https://fbhvc.co.uk/) have to say about it. They will have been involved in the consultations at an early stage.
With the advent of unleaded petrol and E5 many - most - all vehicles will have had any old rubber components that are in the fuel systems replaced long ago.
I believe if the parts stand up to E5, then E10 shouldn't be an issue ???
But hey, what do I know, I'm running diesels :first
:Tdi
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As regards the 2 ¼ petrol engine many of us have, i doubt if it matters one jot really...they were designed to run on third world 'petrol' whatever.. ;). I just bung whatever unleaded stuff they punt at the nearest garage I happen to be near at the time, the car still runs......
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The Royal Dutch Automobile Club (KNAC, lots of classics) recommended using ethanol killers. I phoned or mailed some fuel companies (Avia, BP, Total, Esso) and Avia (Avia, Avia Experess, Tango, Tamoil, …) for instance told me their superplus 98 would at the very most contain ethanol residue (left in the tank lorry from previous ethanol containing cargo's). Same goes for BP (active ultimate?) and Shell V-power. The Fehac (Federation of Historic Automobile and Motorcycle clubs) says on their website https://fehac.nl/?p=414 (https://fehac.nl/?p=414) – in Dutch – Tamoil Superplus 98 is "the best alternative", which means Avia. About an 8 or 9 eurocents surplus…
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Might be worth seeing what the Federation of British Historic Vehicle Clubs (https://fbhvc.co.uk/) have to say about it.
Your wish is their command (https://fbhvc.co.uk/news/article/e10-fuels-consultation-fbhvc-position-statement).
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This looks like the stuff petrol heads need .... Millers VSPE Power Plus (https://motornuts.co.uk/millers-vspe-power-plus-multishot?uilang=1&gclid=EAIaIQobChMImcbIsuWS6AIVxbHtCh2egw03EAQYAiABEgIT8PD_BwE)
:RHD
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I wonder what's in it? At 30p per gallon its reassuringly expensive!
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Genuine Snake Oil... ;)
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HdDEL7WLN5U
-D