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Main Section => Welcome to our virtual Pub Meeting ... => Topic started by: rmgosling on September 10, 2019, 12:12:46 PM
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The new Land Rover Defender (https://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/new-cars/new-land-rover-defender-2019)
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It's not too shabby , could have been a lot worse.
Whether it's a hit or not will depend on pricing, may be a victim of style over substance in the future, I noticed that in all the photos there isn't one taken through the back door of the load area, which is what the old Defender was used for, carrying equipment.
Simon.
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The original Land Rover was just a stop gap for the Rover Car Company before it went back to making luxury cars - it took them 70 years to do so that's all. Beyond the hype, is anyone really excited about this foreign built car? I have watched (some of) Richard Hammond's YouTube video with the great long list of things to go wrong with it and leave you stranded in the middle of nowhere!
Would anyone sell their proper Land Rover to buy one of these to work on a farm? All the farm ones round here are basic 'van' types, when I see a genuine 'utility' version, I might look a bit closer!
Sunny Jim
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Only time will tell if its any good. Looks like a reimagining of bits of nods to the past, like fiat 500 and mini. But when put along side each other they bear no resembalnce.
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I watched the live stream this morning and the mocked up Wilks Bros commercial 90 above was the best looking one they showed.
I'm afraid that I fall into the 'don't like it' camp; it's too rounded off or bulbous at the front to look like a Defender. Although it has some styling cues from old there is a lot of current design language in it, which will date and will not be timeless. Lots of little 'flourishes' like the superfluous rear lights and colour palette.
It looks expensive compared to competition and from other JLR models for the spec. Fuel consumption looks high.
I prefer the appearance of the base 90 on steelies and look forward to seeing one in the flesh. Not convinced that I will be spending £40,290 plus options on one though.
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I'm in the "don't like it" camp too. Not made in Solihull, fake chequerplate, stupid "scowling eyes" headlights... the list goes on :-X
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It looks OK to me, then again I don't get hung up on the Defender name, the same as I don't with the Mini - which I've got, if the vehicle suites your needs then buy it otherwise look away. I would have considered it if the price was better placed as I'm looking for something that will tow, so I might go back to my previous model which was a Countryman ALL4 Cooper S as the towing capacity has increased significantly since they dropped the 2L turbo in it.
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I won't be putting my hand in my wallet for this :shakeinghead
:marmite
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I'm in the "don't like it" camp too. Not made in Solihull, fake chequerplate, stupid "scowling eyes" headlights... the list goes on :-X
I am also in the "don't like it" camp.
I would be looking at a Volvo XC 40/60/90 before one of these, but then I do not need the full blown off-road capabilities that this thing has. :coffee
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No way is that a "utility" vehicle. Does the designer on the broadcast actually believe his own hype?
85 ecu's. What could possibly go wrong ???
Awaiting Projekt Grenadier with interest.
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I am also in the don't like camp on looks and price, looks like a mini on steroids.
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I don't like it.
Personally - I think part of the angst against it is that they named it "Defender". It might of been better received if they had chosen another name, such as "Adventurer". When I think of a "Defender" I think of something a bit more rugged looking; something that Lara Croft or James Bond would drive. I guess this is something they would drive if picking up their kids from soccer practice.
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I don't like it.
Personally - I think part of the angst against it is that they named it "Defender". It might of been better received if they had chosen another name, such as "Adventurer". When I think of a "Defender" I think of something a bit more rugged looking; something that Lara Croft or James Bond would drive. I guess this is something they would drive if picking up their kids from soccer practice.
James Bond has already driven it :-X :-X
I am also in the don't like camp on looks and price, looks like a mini on steroids.
Yep like the Countryman :tiphat I can get a JCW Countryman ALL4 Auto (310 BHP) for £8K less than the starting price of the Defender.
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James Bond has already driven it :-X :-X
Yep like the Countryman :tiphat I can get a JCW Countryman ALL4 Auto (310 BHP) for £8K less than the starting price of the Defender.
Was he picking up the kids from soccer practice or stopping by the local Starbucks? :-X :-X :-X
I haven't seen a starting price yet, but haven't really looked. What is it starting at?
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Was he picking up the kids from soccer practice or stopping by the local Starbucks? :-X :-X :-X
I haven't seen a starting price yet, but haven't really looked. What is it starting at?
On location filming the new Bond film - typical spy shots. ;)
Starting price for the basic 90 size (3 door) just over £40K around $50K and the 110 is a lot more.
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On location filming the new Bond film - typical spy shots. ;)
Starting price for the basic 90 size (3 door) just over £40K around $50K and the 110 is a lot more.
So, James Bond drives a SIII in retirement and drives the new one during spy stuff... sounds like a product plug.
I'm rather surprised at the cost, figured it would be closer to 6 figures.
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So farmers locally went L200 for a long time because they were not all electronic. Old Defenders still all over the place as who wants an expensive truck when a horse will just kick it, cows rub it and sheep *&%^$ all over it. Pathfinders were used locally for awhile but were found to rust out the middle. Seems to be seeing more Rangers around at the moment I'm guessing coz they are cheap.
As an aside, the best logging truck I've ever had was an old Sportage, tiny truck with really tight turning circle. Only issue was it was too light in mud or snow which was easy to fix with a couple of bags of feed on the back seats. Point being need a truck that is right for what you need to use it for.
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I realise I am risking being kicked off but....
Whilst agreeing with the above post that it’s important to have something that suits its purpose I do think the new Jimny holds true to its predecessor. If someone showed me an unabashed version I wouldn’t have a clue who had made it.
Martin
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I'm rather surprised at the cost, figured it would be closer to 6 figures.
Try configuring some of the options and you will probably get there. A 110X starts at £78k :agh
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I’m totally underwhelmed
:thud
S
X
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It's more Freelander than Defender - what a shame. :shakeinghead
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I really like the look of the SWB Defender Commercial , the rest are a bit meh .....
Would I buy one? For £40K+ the handling and reliability would need to be spot on.
I could see a time when I might trade in my everyday car and my SIIa for one - but not until the new Defender has proved itself.
BigH
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Hi,
Well that what my PC just told me on my "front page".
I can't see the army being impreesed. I wonder if it has a chassis?
602
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Hi,
Just Google NEW DEFENDER.
602
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It's a %$!*& Chelsea tractor basically.....
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40 grand..! I've never even owned 4 grand...I must be living in a different dimension I think.... :shakeinghead
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It’s a horrible botch that looks Jeep-ish on those square wheel arches, and a poor mans Disco 3/4 at the front. Very uninspiring.
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I really like the look of the SWB Defender Commercial
I liked the look of this, but unfortunately it's not real. They don't do them in solid blue, red or green just Farrow and Ball.
(https://www.defender2.net/gallery/albums/userpics/23451/normal_D2F1DC3F-B498-4183-917D-6E52FEEFB898.png)
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I do think the LWB version looks just like the awful Dodge Nitro, I think the basic short utility version looks the best.
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I kinda like it. It has the "hip" started with the Series 2 and definitely has a Series looking rear end. The front.....if they had just put in 7" round headlamps would have gone a looong way to looking Defenderish. Those "Angry Bird" LEDs look...........Well, the whole front looks like some sort of face to me.
I read and can't confirm that the diesel won't be available to the US market. IF I could afford one that is what I would want. I wouldn't want all that electronics crud either, too much to go wrong if you are in the outback of Australia or deserts of Southwest US or Africa.
But I bet it will outperform any of our Series 2's.
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Not sure....it might be a grower...I am going to look at it for a few more days/weeks and see how I feel. When I first saw Disco 3 I didn't like it. Now I love it
Found this
https://petrolicious.com/articles/at-last-heres-the-new-land-rover-defender-not-as-effortlessly-cool-as-the-original-but-it-does-everything-else-better
And found it an interesting take
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I tried the build your vehicle option on the LR webpage starting with the base 110 (@£45k! ) and it froze at £70k
The thing that put me off most though? Auto only
Although I would like to try transplanting the 300hp petrol into my 109... For scientific purposes only of course
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What JLR needed was a universal "Wow" when it was unveiled - and not just from people who were paid to say it.
How much "wow" have you heard?
Not nearly enough to make it a roaring success, I fear.
I hope I am wrong.
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Looks like a really fat bmw mini on stilts
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I dont dislike it from what ive seen and read. I never expected it to be like the old defender though either. All the electronics do make me wonder how much will go wrong. I do think it looks like a range rover and an old defender has had a child. And didnt Land Rover show a concept car a number of years ago DC100 i think a lot is from that too.
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Hi,
I don't care how good it is, I don't want it.
What I do want, and could afford, would be a Land Rover built Suzuki Jimny. (I think the Jimny is bigger than the original LR 80").
But hey, I guess Land Rover have done their research, and know what Joe Public wants. What don't I want about the Jimny? The 12 month waiting list!
I wonder what Algies Autos (Google) have to offer?
602
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I wonder if one can bolt in a 300TDI and strip out all the electrickery?
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Try configuring some of the options and you will probably get there. A 110X starts at £78k :agh
Yup.
My brother-in-law asked me tonight what I thought of it; he hates it. He said that his oldest son was listening to an automotive pod cast talking about it. He said that this thing evidently has the world's most complicated, onboard computer system for a vehicle.
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Hi,
I don't care how good it is, I don't want it.
What I do want, and could afford, would be a Land Rover built Suzuki Jimny. (I think the Jimny is bigger than the original LR 80").
But hey, I guess Land Rover have done their research, and know what Joe Public wants. What don't I want about the Jimny? The 12 month waiting list!
I wonder what Algies Autos (Google) have to offer?
602
Unfortunately Suzuki have screwed up the supply of Jimny as they have put the wrong engine in it, so currently for every one that is imported our government imposes a £10,000 penalty - so that's why there is such a long waiting list, my local dealer has sold 3 vehicles in 12 months and are not allowed to sell there demo unit.
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I'm not really a fan of the concept. The biggest draw of a proper land rover to me is the simplicity and adaptability. The new one might be technically incredible, but if I can't take it to bits and see how it works then I'm just not interested.
Thing is, land rover don't care what I think. No matter what they had brought out, I was never going to buy a new one anyway. If I had £40k going spare I'd go on holiday for a year, not buy a car!
They'll probably sell loads of them, though I can't help but wonder if they will be taking sales from other areas in their own product range. It doesn't seem utilitarian enough to occupy a different niche from the likes of the Discovery. In fact, if it was called a Discovery I could probably understand it a bit better.
I can't see the local farmers taking one on instead of the near-ubiquitous Ford Ranger either. The Ranger starts at half the price of the Defender. Incidentally, I went to check the price of the Ranger and it's listed without VAT, where the Defender is listed including VAT. Even the advertised pricing shows who is really expected to buy the new Defender!
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For me, it’s typically McGovern... he seems to only know how to take « styling cues » to create something that « looks like », but not how to design something that « is ». This since he was the Freelander designer with big hair.
So, for him, Defender owners are attracted to exposed screws - he puts them in the new Defender.
He doesn’t have the awareness that the exposed screws are related to simplicity and ease of maintenance (although, anyone who has ever replaced the front windscreen washer on a Defender TD5 will know that ease of maintenance is not always a given!)
But, it’ll sell well withe the Urban Explorer sect who want to give off the aura of ruggedness. The real Land Rover types will stop at the previous models!
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Hi,
I don't care how good it is, I don't want it.
What I do want, and could afford, would be a Land Rover built Suzuki Jimny. (I think the Jimny is bigger than the original LR 80").
But hey, I guess Land Rover have done their research, and know what Joe Public wants. What don't I want about the Jimny? The 12 month waiting list!
I wonder what Algies Autos (Google) have to offer?
602
My daughters SJ (now stolen) was built by Land rover Spain according to the handbook
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He said that this thing evidently has the world's most complicated, onboard computer system for a vehicle.
What could possibly go wrong with something with 85 ECUs, assembled in a brand new factory by a manufacturer that props up dependability surveys who was subject to a billion pounds of warranty claims in a single year?
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If they had not called it a Defender I would have quite liked it...
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I have been mulling this over, I think it has the wrong model designation...
If they made it the new Discovery they may have been on to a winner :cool
The only problem I can see is they've tried to build a "car"
when they should have been building the off road equivalent to a Transit van with multiple body options on a seperate chassis. And that should still be able to pass modern legislation because Ford still build them ???
Neal
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I would have one :cool
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It’s not bad looking.
It’s a Defender the same way the current Mini’s and Fiat 500’s carry their names. I’m sure they’ll sell more of the “new” Defender than the “Classic” Defender.
Back corners do remind me of a 1990’s Vitara though. :-X
(http://www.cars-directory.net/pics/suzuki/escudo/1990/suzuki_escudo_3195048_2_orig.jpg)
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Not sure it's for me but then I said the same about the P-38 Range Rover and ended up buying one of those 10 years after the launch.....
Need a good Camel Trophy now to prove they are up to the job.
Craig.
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It’s not for me, but then we are all different and JLR would not make it without a market.
I have no desire to own one, but then I have no desire to own a new Range Rover or discovery either, plenty of others do.
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:ditto
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I prefer this model - price is OK.
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It looks OK to me, then again I don't get hung up on the Defender name, the same as I don't with the Mini - which I've got, if the vehicle suites your needs then buy it otherwise look away. I would have considered it if the price was better placed as I'm looking for something that will tow, so I might go back to my previous model which was a Countryman ALL4 Cooper S as the towing capacity has increased significantly since they dropped the 2L turbo in it.
Doesnt the countryman share freelander 2 bits and platform?
Dodge nitro resemblance is a good shout, and how well did they sell/when did you last see one.
The new defender is pitched at a new market, the men who dont wear socks with shoes and have paint on trousers. They have money or finance to burn.
The p38 went too far from the orignal range rover and the model that followed it rowed back and was better for it.
I suspect the new defender will have a platform that will be around for a good while and is future proofed but will have make overs to address the criticism and trades on its heritage.
I cannot at this point visualise one with it back axle on the stops dragging a double or triple axle ifor trailer to market.
The base model will sell most due to its price and those who resell will hoover these up and turn them into more executive models for those who want champagne motor at lemonade money.
Bond will drive or wear what he is given or paid to.
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Doesnt the countryman share freelander 2 bits and platform?
BMW 1 series is the platform - not sure there would be a connection with Land Rover.
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Having mulled it over, I have concluded that I don't quite get it.
From its inception the Discovery was always the comfortable, passenger-orientated vehicle while the Defender was the utility vehicle.
This seems to have the target market of the Discovery while still pretending to have utility credentials, however the load space looks to be wrong. The back of an 88" is not enormous, but it is big enough to carry stuff (a few sheep?) and this carried over to the Defender. However, I note that none of the pictures really show the load space and if you look at the side view the door is longer than the space behind, indicating that actually it is very small. The LWB may be a bit better but I doubt it with a second row of seats, which essentially makes it more like a car boot than a true carrying space. If this is correct then it is competing directly with other SUVs or for the SWB not even that as it won't serve as the family vehicle. I therefore don't see where it is targetting, except the 'site foreman' or 'site engineer' market which is a bit small I would have thought to achieve the market penetration necessary.
I also happen to think that the side-on view with the door longer than the rear space is rather ugly, but each to their own.
Alec
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No manual gearbox option it would appear. I suppose that would conflict with the pop up middle seat.
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It's not a Defender it's an Offender.
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We only have a choice of the 4 or 6 petrol engines. I got my build up to $54k.
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Hi,
Have Rovers ever made a bad Range Rover or Land Rover? Have they ever made a bad car (behind the original radiator badge (ignore their adopted cousins).
602
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We only have a choice of the 4 or 6 petrol engines. I got my build up to $54k.
My 110 is now at £100,002 ( $123,227) - a bargain really - I just need to decide if I can live with out the Black bonnet decal for £150 and the union jack dust caps for £35....
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Hi Nomish,
If it says 110 on the front, don't confuse potential purchasers ... ask £110,000.
602
PS I can remember when $1 was worth five shillings (£0.25) ... or will our censors delete such a political statement.
PPS. Why isn't the a smiley of a "toe being dipped in the water?"
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i ran the 'build' and got to £90kplus, leaving out most of the blingy *&%^$ but including the winch kit (gloves, shackles, booklet etc) for £343 but cannot find any option to have a winch fitted ??? ... guess i wont be getting one then :-X
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If it says 110 on the front, don't confuse potential purchasers ... ask £110,000. :-X :-X :-X :-X
602
what I find very odd is the lack of interior photos.... I'm slinging two 40 foot trees worth of wood into mine this weekend - wouldn't dream of doing that to a "new 90"....
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Well, I'm less disappointed than I expected to be....
Take that Wilkes Bros. one, repaint in Marine Blue with Limestone top and wheels, then maybe...
Nah. This is the new Defender. It was never going to look more like a series.
:cheers Nick
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Take that Wilkes Bros. one, repaint in Marine Blue
A little bird told me that the current colour palette (aka Farrow and Ball) is just for the initial launch and that more colours will be added later.
For a bit of fun though, can you see what's wrong with these two photos;
(https://ph-classic-prod-images.s3.amazonaws.com/nimg/40919/LR_DEF_90_20MY_Off-Road_100919_54.JPG)
(https://www.classicdriver.com/sites/default/files/article_images/lr_def_90_20my_off-road_100919_55.jpg)
Bearing in mind that the 80" is 5' wide and the new 90 is 6' 7" wide.
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For a bit of fun though, can you see what's wrong with these two photos;
The 80" is too small...
to carry all the service and diagnostic equipment required to keep the Defender moving? :neener
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A little bird told me that the current colour palette (aka Farrow and Ball) is just for the initial launch and that more colours will be added later.
For a bit of fun though, can you see what's wrong with these two photos;
(https://ph-classic-prod-images.s3.amazonaws.com/nimg/40919/LR_DEF_90_20MY_Off-Road_100919_54.JPG)
(https://www.classicdriver.com/sites/default/files/article_images/lr_def_90_20my_off-road_100919_55.jpg)
Bearing in mind that the 80" is 5' wide and the new 90 is 6' 7" wide.
Must have missed the jet pack option....
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The 80" is too small...
Really? It appears to be as wide as the 90 in photo 1. The 90 appears quite diminutive, despite being the same length as the old 110 and the best part of two feet wider. It's not just from perspective.
Here's another photo of the two together;
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The first picture, with the new vehicle at the front, has clean tyres ??? How did it get there? ??? The track looks dusty etc. :stars
The second picture does show dirt on the tyres.
Has Photoshop (or similar) struck?
Continue the moaning . . . :-X
Cheers
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Really?
No. Not really.
You're correct. It'd the Defender that looks smaller than it should.
Has Photoshop (or similar) struck?
I'd be shocked if they hadn't manipulated the photos at some point. This is advertising after all. They're professional liars!
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Also interesting that the new one in the pics is LHD.
I got my Jeep Gladiator in the Rubicon trim up to $50k. It is more like what the Pretender should have been.; https://www.jeep.com/bmo.html#/models/2020/gladiator
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I hope someone sells a conversion kit for that lego technic defender to make it like a proper one
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I just watched a youtube video by Drivetribe and Richard Hammond. I believe it is a capable vehicle when it is new but apparently it has 85 ECUs... My P38 only has 3 and they aren't cooperating with each other after 19years so time will tell
Neal
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I quite like it, although it's not quite what I thought it would be. I wonder whether they conducted a couple of retrospective design studies, looking at where the old defender might have ended up had it been more comprehensively refreshed every 10 years or so?
We have a 109 (full tilt) and a Disco 4. Although we adore the 109 it just isn't up to modern family life, and maintenance is significantly more demanding than the Disco. A more recent Defender has the character and heritage, but is also not a realistic family bus: too slow, too noisy, too uncomfortable. The Disco 5 is pig ugly, and we wouldn't chop our 4 in for one, but this new defender will have us, and many other Disco 4 owners I suspect, looking long and hard at it.
To look at it another way: what other vehicles from other brands is this up against?
Sure, it's bigger in almost every way than the old defender, but it pretty much had to be to get through crash these days. Look at the Merc G-wagon (also a long, long way from its origins), or the mini, or the golf, or any other long-running model. 85 ECUs is just another way of saying it uses can and lin to keep the wiring harness down to manageable proportions, just like any modern vehicle. There's a little control unit in every switch pack, and they all talk to each other over can. OK, more electronics does mean less reliability, but this can also be seen in the relative reliability of Skoda, VW and Audi: they are the same architecture and the same technologies, after all.
The automotive world is now a very different place to 1948, and many of the derivatives the old series vehicles were available in just don't make sense in any realistic way: transit-and transporter-type vehicles have taken some of the market, L200-type semi-commercials some more, and I can only assume LR ran the numbers and decided it wasn't worth trying to complete because the margins weren't there: all the operators in those segments are huge and have a lot of usable carry-over content from the rest of their ranges. Even the army's needs for vehicles is different now: a defender is a bit much as a batallion runabout, and too little as a patrol vehicle in Iraq.
Trying to make a one-size-fits-all vehicle worked back in a post-war empire world, but those days are long gone and not coming back. Today it just means it'll be out-competed in each niche.
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Crikey, I hope they don’t produce another modern “thing” and call it a landrover series 2A :agh
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Well if you can spend over £100k on a Defender then they are into Mercedes G Wagon territory . I know what I would rather buy for that sort of cash (if I had it) .Since its introduction in the late 70`s it has always been a better built vehicle and , arguably more reliable .
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im sorry i would go for the G Waggon over the new defender , i do like the new merc pickup tho ,
as i suspected the defender has lost its simplicity and ruggedness , but all modern cars are the same , you need a puter to do anything ,
i cant think of any currrent production car that is as rugged and indestructable as a series or a old defender , and thats just silly
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For £60K you can get a highly specced and reliable Toyota Land Cruiser, I think that's the vehicle I'd go for if I had that sort of money.
Simon.
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OK - i'll have one of these
https://www.military.com/equipment/joint-light-tactical-vehicle-jltv (https://www.military.com/equipment/joint-light-tactical-vehicle-jltv)
.... which the defender will never now be ? - or will it ? - it would seem to be what every one is wanting/expecting it to be ?
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Here’s an interesting article about the underside...
https://apple.news/ApFhAsIsoRuuqnGEOMoIYLw (https://apple.news/ApFhAsIsoRuuqnGEOMoIYLw)
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Hi,
If you are in the market for something that used to be rugged, do a Google for ALGYS AUTOS, and read what they say about themselves, and the trucks that they sell.
I think they still list rust-free Discoveries and Range Rovers, but I'm not sure about Defenders. I suppose if you asked then to find a Series, they might TRY to find you one.
Hmmm! Jimny? I didn't notice if any were listed, I must have a shufti.
602