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Main Section => Welcome to our virtual Pub Meeting ... => Topic started by: Malcolm R on January 28, 2021, 06:35:41 PM
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I've been having an argument with a friend who owns a Hilux and he's obviously been listening to too much propaganda because he's convinced Land Rovers are extremely unreliable and bound to break down a lot. I admit that there might more problems than a good modern car but it got me thinking about what could be considered unreliable about them and why would they break down. Having never driven a land rover for more than 10 minutes I have no personal experience of the main problems that might be faced.
Basically the question I want to ask is how have you lovely people on the forum broken down in the past, and could it have been avoided. From snapped halfshafts (do other cars experience this?) To failing steering or even just the wipers or headlights stopping and making it undriveable please let me know what sort of things have happened to you. And do other cars of the era experience the same problems. Many thanks,
Malcolm
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Generally I would say most breakdowns are down to lack of maintenance, no two ways about it. Nowadays I would also say a lot of blame is also on the 'quality' of aftermarket parts.
I always say, if you can't maintain a series Land Rover to a reliable condition you need to find a new hobby :-X They're simple machines, very little to go wrong, but they are getting on a bit now. It's testament to the design that they can keep doing their job for no long with little to no maintenance.
I've had three yellow taxi journeys in 11 years of running my 88" nearly every day. First was a sheared steering relay (aftermarket part...) second was the timing belt tensioner giving up and third was the head gasket going. Annoyingly none of them I could really have foreseen. The belt tensioner perhaps might not have happened had I changed it sooner, as I had owned the vehicle 5 years at that point. The gasket I had no idea it was on the way out (it went between no.4 piston and no.8 pushrod tube).
The good thing is even if you do neglect them a bit, there's not a lot that will actually stop you from proceeding full stop.
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In 50 years of owning Land Rovers I have had to call the AA etc 4 or 5 times which I think isn't bad going. Occasionally I have had breakdowns that I have fixed myself. Spark plug going down so running on 3 cylinders , broken rear half shaft, so took out the shafts and prop , then drove home on the front axle. Choked jet in the carb and similar issues easily fixed .
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Only one break down in 16 years....rear prop joint failed and the result was the prop flailing which took out the brake line and therefore the brakes. Got home ok
Maintenance failure where despite greasing the spiders on the prop the grease wasn't reaching all parts of the joint. So now I only grease with the prop off on the bench so I can ensure the grease pushes out of all four joints
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landrover discovery topped the naughty list in 2020.. The uneducated are better off in a Toyota to be honest. It all went wrong with the Ev'j'oke
https://www.carlogos.org/reviews/worst-car-brands.html
IMHO
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Unfortunately I’ve been recovered twice in the 11 years of running my series 2.
One was complete gearbox failure in the middle of a 100 mile trip to Aberystwyth (6 years ago), and the other was a failed clutch slave cylinder (in Aberystwyth) 2 years ago. The first was unavoidable, no warning and no clues in gearbox oil changes.
The failed clutch slave cylinder was fixable, as I had a new cylinder and a friend had a new pipe but the weather was truly awful - camping field flooded - so I opted for the BYT rather than drive 100 miles home with no clutch - I had already run 10 miles back to the campsite along green lanes with no clutch until this point!
There have been other minor issues over the years - I remember issues with the accelerator linkage meaning I had to drive with the hand throttle. Recently I lost brake and rear side lamps on the way back from Coventry so drive back with alternating indicators flashing so I could be seen.
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Three breakdowns in the last 22 years that involved recovery.
1) Popped wheel cylinder and broken halfshaft. Derbyshinre.
2) cambelt snappage (2.5 Sherpa). Leicestershire.
3) oil cooler pipe failure (200TDI). Embsay railway station, Skipton.
I had a gearlever snap once in Lincs., but got towed home by a friend.
Been quite lucky really. :RHD
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This is tempting fate :shakeinghead I am gripping a plank of wood.
10 years ownership and 40ish k miles including trips to Spain, south of France, Italy, Denmark, all over UK all different times and many heavily laden Scout camps. Many minor issues but never had to call on the breakdown cover. Land Rovers give you fair warning of most problems and if ignored lose the rag and fail on you when you should be expecting it.
So regular fettling and many an hour on trips sorting minor issues, often electrical - my loom is a mess but getting better as I sort the PO's appalling connections and problems are few now.
That said, if you want something maintenance free and reliable, buy a VW Passatt. But they really are boring.
Paul
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I had a gearlever snap once in Lincs., but got towed home by a friend.
Hi,
Way back when ... early 1960s? ... I had the clutch linkage snap on a early 1930s Morris 8.
I managed to drive from the (London) North Circular, straight through central London, to Croydon, just by jamming it into gear without the clutch. I managed to fix the clutch, and change the back axle, before returning to RAF camp on Sunday night.
Of course, if I'd been driving a Series Land Rover, I would have flicked it into Neutral as I approached the traffic lights, and switched off the ignition. As soon as the truck stops moving, select LO in the transfer box, and first gear. Switch ignition ON.
When lights turn green, hit starter button. Truck lurches forward until the engine fires.
Once moving, change into HI in the transfer box, clutchlessly, by matching the revs. Then move up the main gearbox, again matching the revs.
OK, the "old hands" will know all about this, but I'm assuming there are a few Tyros in the club, who haven't thought about it.
602
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The problem is that every new owner works on or replaces exactly the same parts, oil ignition, filters, carburettor, brakes etc. Bearings, the ones easy to get at, like wheel bearings, usually get replaced if slightly worn, even though they would last another 50 years. Unfortunately it's all the gears in the diffs and in the gearbox, and the half shafts that take all the strain, but hardly ever get replaced with new quality parts. Any 50-60 year old part can fail at any time. I can assure you an old series L/r can be a very reliable vehicle under harsh conditions with a minimum of maintenance.
.W.
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USA here, I've had the broken gear lever, half-shaft, dip stick tube all I have gotten home on my own with. Where I needed help was a broken rear diff while on a hill blocking said hill and when a cooling fan got loose and wore thru the radiator tubes. The last one I got towed to a repair shop as I was 100 miles from home and I pulled the rad and got it fixed and back on the road in 24 hours.
Land Rover, turning ordinary men into mechanics since 1948
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Land Rover, turning ordinary men into mechanics since 1948
:-X :-X :-X
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My best was the gear stick snapping off at the tunnel....during my driving test. Recovered back to Barracks, new vehicle, 15 minutes more driving. Pass :first
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I would agree that most are due to lack of maintenance, or ignoring things that you have your doubts about.
In ten years ownership I have only had one real breakdown due to a broken pin in the clutch actuating mechanism; luckily on my mother's driveway, so it was a case of getting the train home and returning next weekend with the parts.
The other incidents were due to things that I knew I should have sorted but didn't get round to, but were resolved quickly. 1- I had run out of LPG and was relying on a dodgy unbranded Facet style petrol pump. A few sharp taps with a heavy object woke it up again. 2 - I knew my ignition switch was a bit dodgy because I sometimes had to wiggle it a bit and of course it gave out eventually but was easily bypassed. 3 - Again with no LPG, my worn Zenith caused it to stall while pulling away. Luckily the new battery was able to sustain it through what seemed like 5 minutes of starting attempts.
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Hi,
I broke a half-shaft in France (near St.Malo, but returned to Swansea, via the Chunnel, towing a small caravan). I did the "pull all the shafts and engage the front axle routine". About 600 miles. No real drama.
And I mis-fueled (petrol into a diesel tank) "somewhere in Wltshire, so called for recovery. Mistake!
The first recovery truck couldn't handle the caravan, so we had to wait for something bigger. At least we were in a proper lay-by, away from the highway.
It took the workshop an hour to pump out the tank (which I had to pay for). I also had to pay for disposing of the waste fuel. I'd have had to refuel anyway. But £100+ to empty the tank? :agh
It would have been cheaper, and probably quicker, to phone for a taxi, ask them to bring me a NEW jerry can full of diesel, and three NEW jerry cans, but empty, and a syphon hose. At least I'd have four jerry cans to play with afterwards.
Actually, the Land Rover, a Series 2 LWB estate, diesel, was still running. I could probably driven it to the nearest garage ... if I'd know where I was ... somewhere in Wiltshire, on a "lesser" A road, that I'd never used previously.
The Landy started instantly, after the tank was drained, so I could drive to the pumps. No lasting ill effects.
So, add a proper syphon hose (with non-return valve) to the shopping list.
Two thoughts ...
1. Can anybody suggest a small container capable of holding 10 gallons. Russian doll type stacking action?
Polythene bag inside a ladies stocking?
2. Barbara is incapable of climbing into a recovery truck. In fact a couple of years ago, she found she was incapable of climbing into a taxi, but I wasn't there, so I don't know what type of vehicle it was. I believe London Black Cabs must be wheel-chair friendly ... unless that space is still occupied by a bale of hay for the horse?
I must re-read the terms and conditions of our RECOVERY insurance. I think "taxi" is mentioned.
602
OT .. Barbara is having an argument with her Disability Social Worker, who says she needs a modified car. Barbara says that if she can get into the driver's seat, and the gear lever and hand-brake are on her left, she can drive it. I agree. But I think an automatic is on the cards (Oh! ... the shame) although she is muttering about going electric.
I don't think she is entitled to MOTABILITY. Can anyone advise? I'd better not tell you her age, (but she was born in 1943)
She climbed into a Ferrari at Silverstone, and screeched "Where's the gear lever!" She'd never met paddle shift, but soon got the hang of it .... 3 laps, hitting 125mph!
To set the scene of our marriage ... I have seen Barbara and a police sergeant, standing in the middle lane of the M4, wagging fingers in each others faces. Traffic passing both side, albeit slowly. It ended with the Sergeant telling me to "Get your wife out of my sight, and I'll say no more about this!"
We've been married for 56 years, and I still wake up screaming.
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Hi :tiphat I've owned land rovers for 25 years and never had to call out a breakdown recovery, in that time the only memorable breakdowns i have had are I've had a broken half-shaft broke 3 miles from home put in 4wd and drove home to fix it, and had a troublesome carb with one that would ice up but that was sorted very quickly, as Calum has rightly said if you correctly maintain you're vehicle that should put you in good stead, one of my land rovers (1966 series 2a) i used to drive to Devon to see my mum once or twice a month along with using it for our camping holidays throughout the year :cheers Paul
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They are as reliable as you make them.
Easier (and cheaper) to fix than modern cars :first
:breakdown truck
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Owned my 88” S2A for 27 years, covered 137,000 miles in him and never had to call a recover company. Rear half shaft broke once, into 4WD and made my own way home (now that’s an interesting experience in steering !)
Broken clutch pedal return spring, tied it up temporarily with a bungee cord. Condenser blown, changed it at the roadside and that’s all. They are as reliable as you make them, remember preventative maintenance is the key...
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One short yellow taxi ride to get off the motorway in the middle of the night. I slept in the land rover and fixed the fault next morning.
I also remember being woken at 6am one morning by a mate who was on his way from Dronfield back the Mytholmroyd (not it wasnt Calum) the day before his wedding. His clutch had failed in Chapeltown and he had caught the first bus back to Sheffield. His clutch had failed. We raided my brother in laws stash of spares and took my land rover back to Chapeltown, we took the gearbox out under one of the raiway arches and fitted the new clutch at the side of the road. That must have been in about 1970.
One of the land rovers that we took to Romania in 1970 was very very poorly on the journey and there was some debate about whether it would make it home. It did but the repeated failures on it were down to poor maintenance. My £15 wonder made it there and back without any problems theough the photos almost all show it with the bonnet up.
With series land rovers if you use them then you have either got to be prepared to get your hands dirty or have evry deep pockets. They are maintenance intensive if you want them to work properly.
I much prefer working on the land rover to the eurobox or the Romahome, at least things come undone most of the time. I must sort out the front swivels in the warmer weather.
Peter
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The secret is to maintain properly - which means doing ALL of it - including the bits you find difficult - like the contact breaker points. Its also being sensitive to problems like if its getting difficult to start - it means something's going wrong - and needs to be attended to rather than ignored.
Regular use is also adviseable - to keep things like brakes in good order and to deter corrosion in cylinders.
Contrary to the opinions of some the roads of the 60's weren't littered with broken down vehicles.
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Strangest breakdown recovery I had was with a Mitsubishi plug in hybrid I had as a company car (thankfully now gone).
The charge lead / transformer had a dodgy connection and was a sealed unit - known weakness on that car, but the dealers would only swap it if they had the whole car to check so sent an AA vehicle to recover it from the house. We live down a narrow track so I drove it to the main road and onto the truck. The recovery driver couldn't really understand why he had been sent to recover the completely driveable vehicle just to change a 2 metre power lead.
Give me an old vehicle with nuts and bolts over a computerised battery toy any day.
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We had a S2 (and S1) on the farm in Australia as our run about's (i think they are both sitting at the tip still... we are no longer on the farm)
Biggest issue we has was them conking out in a middle of a puddle. it hated water. sniff of water in the dizzy and game over.
eventually the 2.25 was replaced by an Aussie Red motor, giving better power!
Careful wrap of rubber gloves and bicycle tubes to prevent the dizzy for getting wet definitely improved the situation!
Few half shafts snapped, and synchros crapping out in the gearbox.
Worst part about land rovers in Aus was the price and availability of parts. the Jap motors/cars are so much better supported and as such got a better reputation!
Always a premise that Landrover are expensive and unreliable... so i bought a S2 anyway! :-X
We have (and still have) a 1990 GQ patrol, 4.2 L diesel.
On the last trip i took (13,000km up and down the length of Australia including a few bonnet deep water crossings) the odometer rolled over 580,000 KM.
- No engine overhaul since new
- no gearbox change since new
- No diff or axle issues at all (i think i may need to tighten the LSD on the rear)
Only thing that had me head scratching for 20min on the side of the road/back of nowwhere. Is a failed slave clutch cylinder (drove 1000km without a clutch to the nearest auto parts store) and a failed fuel shut off solenoid (removed the plunger on the side of the road, had to stall the engine to turn it off).
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First of all, your land rover can legally travel faster - the speed limit for a Hilux is of course for a goods vehicle.
Second, should the Hilux break down - it's quite likely an expensive repair. Give it a couple of years it might be beyond economic repair. Parts availability for a five year old Hilux?
Your land rover can be repaired - point out the number of parts suppliers!
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I've had my 88 14 years, only let me down twice. Once 2 miles from home when the rear diff exploded and jammed up. The second time was after a 5000 mile trip round France for the 5th time plus all the usual stuff and a bit of 'Get me home, heavy foot on the M-way the gearbox gave up, 200 yards from home. Now touching wood lol
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Land Rovers don't breakdown - they fail to proceed.
... or is that Rolls Royces.
:RHD
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Hi Wittsend,
Sorry, but quite close to you ...
1931 MG L-type Magna, Think open 4-seater Midget. Returning to RAF Barnhan (near Thetford) after a weekend in Croydon (South London), a smidgen over 100 miles apart. Got a puncture as I was approaching Newmarket, about one o'clock in the morning. Back tyre went flat. No jack.
The spare had a huge hole in one side-wall, so it was only for show, hung on the exterior slab petrol tank.
A TR2 came coasting out of the mist, so I flagged it down. Two Cambridge university students, trying to get back to Uni, with only fumes in their tank.
They lifted the MG, while I changed the tyre. I gave them a gallon of petrol, and they carried on their way, and I carried on mine.
I found the MG was happy to drive in a straight line, at 50mph. on a flat tyre. That was until a lump of tread started whizzing past my right elbow. It seemed expedient to slow down a bit. I reached camp without further incident.
When I examined the wheel the following day, there were two tyre beads, not connected together, with evidence of there once being canvas and rubber. The rim was undamaged.
I stuck a patch on the inner tube of the punctured tyre, and was mobile again.
About par for the course in those days (early 1960s) and character building. The MG cost me £35. I wish I had it now.
602
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First of all, your land rover can legally travel faster - the speed limit for a Hilux is of course for a goods vehicle.
That would depend on the model I think ? The "spec" I can see puts the kerb weight of a single cab 2019 Hilux at under 2 tonnes, so inside the definition for a "Dual Purpose Vehicle", meaning car speed limits apply ? A Double cab is listed at 2080Kg so just exceeds the limit. Even then there may be wriggle room, the C&A regs refer to "unladen weight", the Spec refers to "Kerb weight" which I believe includes fuel ? The exchange of letters with the Prosecuting Authority might be fun...
Noting too that the OP is in Norway, dunno what rules may apply there...except it will be expensive if you transgress :-)
:tiphat
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Land Rovers don't breakdown - they fail to proceed.
... or is that Rolls Royces.
:RHD
Definitely Rolls Royces... By the same token, legend has it that when a Rolls Royce salesman was queried as to the need for a tool kit in a Rolls, his response was... "Sir - do you have nipples?"
My penny's worth - In Africa and the Middle East, it is common for Land Rovers to be nicknamed Hungry Crocodiles on account of them seemingly always having their bonnets open! If that isn't a testament to unreliability, I'm not sure what is.
Can't complain - their unreliability has kept me in work for the last 30 years
To quote 602... I'll get my coat...
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In Africa and the Middle East, it is common for Land Rovers to be nicknamed Hungry Crocodiles on account of them seemingly always having their bonnets open! If that isn't a testament to unreliability, I'm not sure what is.
Hungry Crocodile. I love that.
However, every Bristol area Series 2 meeting I go to all the bonnets are up as we all inspect each others...you know what I am trying to say.
Back on topic, I had my first proper breakdown in 25 years ownership this summer. Two AA men couldn't work it out, the second said he currently owns three Series vehicles. It was towed to my usual garage, and after rebuilding the carb one more time, they opened the distributor and found the springs had fallen off the black circular plastic piece that is part of my electronic ignition. So you could say if I had points and a condenser I wouldn't have broken down. Nonetheless the electronic ignition had done 20 years good service
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:-X :-X :-X
That’s the funniest line I have heard for a long time.....can we please get some series 2 club T shirts made up with that on it? I'll buy 4
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One breakdown in 20 years for me! The tiny spring holding the carbon bush to the top of the rotor arm fell out of the Dizzie cap, and neither the BYT man or I could find it. I don't think there are THAT many vehicles with a better record.
There might be the odd 200,00 mile Volvo or Merc without a single breakdown, but I don't accept that Series Land Rovers are inherently unreliable. That Volvo or Merc would not have been subjected to the kind of really hard work (and often abuse) that many Series Land Rovers experience.
Modern Land Rovers such as the P38 RR and RR Sport etc might be a wholly different story, but for me, the Series Land Rover will always soldier on, no matter what is asked of it.......
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I went to get my Landy one morning from the pub as I'd very much over enjoyed my birthday there the night before. With a raging hangover I pulled out of the car park onto a busy A5 when the gear stick snapped off at tunnel level and in surprise i stalled it :agh After I'd calmed down I managed to hammer a screwdriver into the remains and drove home. I was young and had only had it a couple of weeks. It's provided several more opportunities to be creative since.......
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First of all thanks for all the replies, it's very interesting to read through all these and please keep them coming. I'll be honest there are a lot less breakdowns per person than I expected.
As I sort of expected there a good few broken halfshafts and this sort of makes me think even deeper into the reasons why they break down. I don't know if anyone can tell me if breaking halfshafts is a problem other vehicles of the era experience or even how often do more modern vehicles break halfshafts (or whatever they are called on modern cars - just axles?). Basically what I'm wondering is if the design or metallurgy choices of Land Rover have potentially increased the chance of them breaking. But anyway that is just one example and thanks again for all the replies.
My friends Hilux is a 1984 mk2. The parts availability is absolutely a massive issue. Haynes didn't even make a manual for the mk2 and when his thermostat housing broke he had to order a new one from Australia because no others were available. There is also no chrome left on his swivels but because they are actually welded directly on to the axle case and they can't be bought new he's had to just sand them a bit and hope for the best. I have never heard of this law about pick ups having to drive slower on certain roads, number plate check says his weighs over 2300kg so I'm guessing that will apply to him.
Malcolm
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We have a fleet of old beaten up Hiluxes at the local gliding club for towing the winch cables out. They are very robust of course but if anything non-trivial goes wrong they are not economic to repair.
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After I'd calmed down I managed to hammer a screwdriver into the remains and drove home.
Hi Kingkay,
Subject to traffic, terrain, etc ... the "Get me out of here solution" (assuming you are in any gear), is to pull the transfer gear lever into LO, and keep driving until it is safe to stop.
Once stopped, wangle the main gear lever into Top gear(or perhaps Third),. With the transfer box in LO, set off in which ever gear you are in, and once you have sufficient speed, double de-clutch into HI
Character building, but not impossible ... and with a bit of practice, not too difficult.
If you lose your clutch, engage first gear, and LO, switch ignition ON, and start the engine. Car will lurch forward, and the engine will fire, give it a little welly, and change into HI. Then move up and down the main gearbox ... clutchlessly. Perhaps not a good idea in the London rush-hour.
In 1960, I moved a 5-ton Coles crane, from RAF Sharjah, to a building site in Dubai (A little fishing village. with barusti (sp?) (palm leaf) shops. This was for a new power station, so the lights did not go dim in Dubai village, when the Sheik switch his palace lights on (I'm not exagerating).
I had a steering wheel, gear lever, and handbrake. We borrowed the battery from the Sheik's Yank-Tank, to start the crane ... in first gear. Once it was rolling, my mate who was standing on the bumper, removed the battery and handed back to the Sheik, climbed round bonnet, and joined me in the cab. (The crane had magneto ignition).
Once through the main gates, I opened the throttle, let it rip across the desert. Glorious ... about three inch diameter exhaust pipe ... but only about the first three feet.
Manouvering the truck around the building site, without half the controls, was ... er ... interesting.
602
PS, While getting the crane started, I had to go back to camp to get some more tools. The Sheik lent me his Chevvy. I got a smashing Present Arms as I drove through the camp gates. :tiphat
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Hi Malcolm :tiphat my halfshaft snapping was a first for me and I’ve had a few landrovers, what I can say is it had previously been broken and welded/repaired however that was at least the owner before the owner I bought it off and I had driven a few thousand miles in my ownership before it broke, interestingly it was 1/2 an hour and 5 miles after having a new set of wheels fitted by a local garage ( they had swapped all 4 tyres off the old wheels on to the new wheels ) when I looked down the yard to see what was taking so long I could see a guy sat in it and it was parked in a strange position, when he finally brought it out to me he commented that the gear stick is bent and he couldn’t get it in to gear :thud :shakeinghead I believe that they caused this failure a few miles down the road ??? :cheers Paul
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I believe that they caused this failure a few miles down the road ???
Hi Paul,
You may be right ... but I reckon that you are on a "hiding to nothing", especially if it was the half-shaft that had been repaired ... I've never heard of anybody repairing a half-shaft before.
If anything is going to break, it will be right next to the strongest bit.
My sympathies, but it's best it broke in a non-critical location/situation. Remember, your hand-brake would have "broken" at the same time.
602
PS. Did the tyre bay warn you to check your wheel nuts after 10 miles? Try Googling WHEELS COMING OFF CARAVANS
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Only one actual breakdown since I acquired my SW 3 years ago but it was an expensive one! Layshaft failure. Had to call out friend for tow since it happened on a steep hill with nowhere to turn. Once extricated from the hill I drove it home with the gears I had left- 4th low, 4th low overdrive, 4th high, 4th high overdrive. All good fun!
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Series breakdowns?
Broke a half-shaft on the way home from the pub meet. Got home in 4wd.
However, as certain locals will know :agh, my more "modern" Land Rovers have been a tad more problematical: one yellow taxi, two-tow homes and one seized water pump as I started it in my yard.......
However I still like the bumper sticker I saw:
"I'd rather push my Land Rover than drive Japanese".
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Hi,
Are we comparing like with like ... or a new Hilux with an old Land Rover?
A few years ago, I had a Mitsubishi Shogun LWB diesel ... crew cab and hard-top over the tub. I can't remember anything going wrong, apart from having to pay the commercial toll over the Severn Bridge.
Surely a 4x4 is a Dual Purpose Vehicle, so should pay the car toll, same as estate cars. Apparently, ALL Land Rovers crossed at the car toll.
Question ... Land Rovers go on for ever, but I can't remember seeing a Shogun being advertised for many years. Is that because ...
1. I haven't been looking?
2. They have all been shipped out to the Third World?
3. They have all died? What is the live expectancy of an old Japanese 4x4?
602
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My experience is that from having run a large fleet of Nissan Patrols (Y60 and Y61) in the Balkans as well as currently looking after multiple fleets of Toyota 70 Series Land Cruisers and Hiluxes in Africa, is that they don't generally break down. I have one Land Cruiser pushing 1 million kms and there is nothing wrong with it - it just keeps going.
Most old vehicles will get cannibalised on fleets, so its difficult to pin down disposal figures, but in general, the difference fundamentally is that Japanese vehicles were always well built and things do not generally go wrong. They just eventually wear to a point where they are beyond economic repair. When something goes wrong, the repair costs are usually prohibitive - Front axle swivel or track rod end replacement being classis examples. For most Japanese 4x4s, this involves a new axle casing and complete track rods.
Land Rovers on the other hand have always been less receptive to lack of maintenance. Reliability can only be sustained by constant preventative maintenance - be that as a private owner or a large fleet. The costs are generally much lower - you can sort a front chrome swivel on a Land Rover for less than £100. On a Land Cruiser, that's probably 10 times that. The difference is that the quality of the swivel on the Land Cruiser tends to be much more durable and long lasting, so the perception (and probably the truth) is that they are far more reliable.
The last study I was on looking at comparative costs for LR Defender v Land Cruiser confirmed that on a fleet basis, the running costs were broadly similar. The difference was that where Toyota and Nissan lost ground was on fuel economy where LR won hands down. Land Rover failed dismally on unscheduled workshop time (a polite term for breakdown).
If all we are concerned about on our old Series vehicles is a few broken halfshafts, then I'd suggest that's not a bad track record. Bearing in mind how old they are, that can't be bad. I've only ever broken rear halfshafts in standard 88" and its always been common knowledge to uprate them if the vehicles likely to be subject to real abuse.
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I feel I must speak up for halfshafts.
A failed (rear) halfshaft failure should not leave you stranded.
It's not a breakdown. You simply push the yellow lever down and drive on the front axle.
The steering will feel a little heavy but nothing untoward. Can be a bit more complicated if you have FWHs.
The "trick" is recognising that a halfshaft has failed when you're sat in the cab wondering why you're not moving.
One of the "rites of passage" in owning a Land Rover.
You can consider a failed halfshaft a bit like a blown fuse.
When you think that halfshafts could be 50, 60 years old - they've not done bad.
New halfshafts are quite cheap.
Prudent owners travelling away from home on adventurous road trips would carry a couple of spares.
Haflshafts can be repaired in the field - done it my self in deepest France.
All that's needed is a container to catch the diff oil. A tent peg to prise out the stuck end and a paper picnic plate to make drive flange gaskets.
:RHD
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Hi,
For a short period after leaving the RAF, I worked in an HGV main dealer.
The receptionist would advise us what the customer would accept on his invoice, or wouldn't accept, and we were expected to work accordingly.
On more than one occasion, I've been a day ahead on the bonus scheme, and then been given a "pre-delivery".
My choice was to do a proper pre-delivery, and have another week on basic wages ... or change the engine oil, check the coolant level, tyre pressures, and sign it off. Guess what I did? Guess what everybody else did?
Servicing and repairs were charged according to how long the book said the job should take. The mechanic was paid 25% of the total. The quicker the job was done, the quicker he could get onto the next "nice little earner". There was no incentive for management to check his work ... they were on the same "earner".
My sister bought a new Mini, which I didn't see until after it's first service. I noticed that there was still green paint on the rocker cover gasket. Surely the tappets should have been once, if not twice, by that time? Just to rub salt into the wound, she had probably been charged (twice?) for new rocker cover gaskets. This was in the late 1960s, early 1970 when British cars were considered rubbish, and European car sales were booming. I wonder why? (The Japs hadn't arrived yet)
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Back in the 1970's my Aunt bought a new Mini and was complaining to me , as I worked at Longbridge, that it was difficult to start and she had to use both hands to pull out the choke. In cold weather she had to call out the Garage to get it going which had happened 3 or 4 times . I had a look and found that the heater hose was wrongly routed between the SU carb and the bulkhead. When operating the choke ,the jet was compressing the hose and causing the restriction. Although the initial fault was poor assembly in the vehicle build, what really annoyed me was the garage was charging for these visits and not correcting the root cause. In 5 mins I had collected my tools and rerouted the hose to its correct position,, problem solved for good.
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I feel I must speak up for halfshafts.
A failed (rear) halfshaft failure should not leave you stranded.
It's not a breakdown. You simply push the yellow lever down and drive on the front axle.
The steering will feel a little heavy but nothing untoward. Can be a bit more complicated if you have FWHs.
The "trick" is recognising that a halfshaft has failed when you're sat in the cab wondering why you're not moving.
One of the "rites of passage" in owning a Land Rover.
You can consider a failed halfshaft a bit like a blown fuse.
When you think that halfshafts could be 50, 60 years old - they've not done bad.
New halfshafts are quite cheap.
Prudent owners travelling away from home on adventurous road trips would carry a couple of spares.
Haflshafts can be repaired in the field - done it my self in deepest France.
All that's needed is a container to catch the diff oil. A tent peg to prise out the stuck end and a paper picnic plate to make drive flange gaskets.
:RHD
That was very much my thinking too. If that's the only common issue, its not a bad testament when you compare to problems on Defenders.
If we add corrosion as an issue on these old vehicles - spare a thought for those people with over-priced late model old Defenders. In the last 3 months I have done extensive welding repairs (including rear cross members) on 4 different 2013 and 2014 model year Defenders. As for their bulkheads - might be better to have been made out of cardboard - might last longer.
Series vehicles opened up Africa and most of the "Third World" (I hate that term!). It was the Series 2s and 2As which had the best reputation for reliability and durability. It was the Series 3s and the Leyland era when it all went off the rails. Dashboards fell to pieces for a start. I've rebuilt countless Series 3s for safari fleets in Africa with older Series 2 and 2A bulkheads as they were far more robust, simple and reliable.
In short, I believe that the Series 2As are probably the most reliable and most sorted Land Rovers of them all. A quick check of my client fleet records for Africa as of now, confirms that I appear to have the following still running:
9x 2A 109s in Ghana - all running as recovery trucks or working pickups
11x 2A 109s in DRC - again - recovery trucks and service pickups
4x 109 Pickups - Zimbabwe - farm support vehicles
Admittedly all are classic examples of Trigger's Broom, but proves the point that they are still viable vehicles and people are making a living out of them.
I currently have no Series 3s on my books, but do have 5x 110 300 Tdi Station Wagons, 6x Puma engined 110 Defenders (two off the road waiting for engines) and 1x TD5 110 Station Wagon. I also have just under 700 Toyotas on the books...
The facts sort of speak for themselves...
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I feel I must speak up for halfshafts.
A failed (rear) halfshaft failure should not leave you stranded.
It's not a breakdown. You simply push the yellow lever down and drive on the front axle.
The steering will feel a little heavy but nothing untoward. Can be a bit more complicated if you have FWHs.
The "trick" is recognising that a halfshaft has failed when you're sat in the cab wondering why you're not moving.
One of the "rites of passage" in owning a Land Rover.
You can consider a failed halfshaft a bit like a blown fuse.
When you think that halfshafts could be 50, 60 years old - they've not done bad.
New halfshafts are quite cheap.
Prudent owners travelling away from home on adventurous road trips would carry a couple of spares.
Haflshafts can be repaired in the field - done it my self in deepest France.
All that's needed is a container to catch the diff oil. A tent peg to prise out the stuck end and a paper picnic plate to make drive flange gaskets.
:RHD
I've carried this kit on every 800-1000km or more trip with me for the last 18 years.
2 long half shafts
1 short half shaft
1 length of hard drawn copper pipe, flattened at one end for knocking out the broken bit.
1 short bit of bent copper pipe connected to some rubber hose for filling diff, swivel, gearbox etc.
1 small funnel
All carried in a 1m long plastic down pipe.
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I bet since you put that lot in the back, you've never bust a half shaft! As soon as you take it out and leave it at hoe, that's when disaster will strike. :tiphat
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I bet since you put that lot in the back, you've never bust a half shaft! As soon as you take it out and leave it at hoe, that's when disaster will strike. :tiphat
Your right, I never needed it.
.W.
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I bet since you put that lot in the back, you've never bust a half shaft! As soon as you take it out and leave it at hoe, that's when disaster will strike. :tiphat
Quite right - carry the kit and you won't "breakdown".
I too use plastic pipe to store the halfshafts in :first
When my halfshaft failed in France I was resigned to completing my trip on the front axle.
However, a Swiss owner lent me his spare shaft and so I did the field replacement - at night, on wet grass.
Since then, when away from home I carry spare halfshafts. Not so much for me, but in case another owner "breaks down" and I can return the favour !
Prudent owners should be carrying some basic spares on board.
To include:-
Fan belt
Points
Rotor arm
Dizzy cap
Condenser
Spark plug
Wiper arm & blade
Rad hoses & clips
Various light bulbs
These are relatively small items.
Even if you are mechanically challenged - the spares will help a good Samaritan fix your vehicle.
No doubt some other parts could be included ???
Wheel bearings with lock tabs.
etc. etc.
If I venture out of Norfolk then I carry this sort inventory.
Round Norfolk, I don't bother.
To me a breakdown is when the head gasket blows, or the sump drops off, or a wheel falls off and you need the big yellow taxi home - something that can't be repaired at the roadside.
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I carry spare halfshafts inside my front bumper. They've been there at least 10 years but are inside bicycle inner tubes so hopefully not too rusty.
My most exciting breakdown day was when my stater motor died at the bottom of a very muddy valley at a pay and play site. It took a chain of 3 Defenders to tow me up the hill. Once we got it bump started I headed back to London. Approaching Hanger Lane roundabout the clutch release failed. So we had to get across the roundabout, through many traffic lights and junctions with clutchless gear changes to get home. Wherever we came to a halt would be where we called the Big Yellow Taxi.
Amazingly, we made it all the way home. It was an exciting trip especially in first gear and a foot on the brake as we crept towards the car in front hoping the lights would change!
Another was at another Pay and Play site when the front axle uj shattered. The bits fell in the swivel so we could turn left but not right :stars I stripped it down, removed the bits and drove home.
The only times we've needed recovery was for a failed wheel bearing on the M1 and when my front diff poked a hole in my Prima engines oil filter whilst greenlaning.
:cheers
Edit,
Forgot to mention the two rear diffs I've changed at the Dirty Weekends over the years (and the third one where we had to pull the halfshafts to drive home as Nitemare Pete had run out of spare diffs). :thud
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I can tell you are a Yorkshireman, you just dont give up.
Peter
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:-X
The off roading was hard on the old bus. The 3000 miles round the Alps a few years ago were relatively trouble free.
:RHD
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I carry spare halfshafts inside my front bumper. They've been there at least 10 years but are inside bicycle inner tubes so hopefully not too rusty.
My most exciting breakdown day was when my stater motor died at the bottom of a very muddy valley at a pay and play site. It took a chain of 3 Defenders to tow me up the hill. Once we got it bump started I headed back to London. Approaching Hanger Lane roundabout the clutch release failed. So we had to get across the roundabout, through many traffic lights and junctions with clutchless gear changes to get home. Wherever we came to a halt would be where we called the Big Yellow Taxi.
Amazingly, we made it all the way home. It was an exciting trip especially in first gear and a foot on the brake as we crept towards the car in front hoping the lights would change!
Another was at another Pay and Play site when the front axle uj shattered. The bits fell in the swivel so we could turn left but not right :stars I stripped it down, removed the bits and drove home.
The only times we've needed recovery was for a failed wheel bearing on the M1 and when my front diff poked a hole in my Prima engines oil filter whilst greenlaning.
:cheers
Edit,
Forgot to mention the two rear diffs I've changed at the Dirty Weekends over the years (and the third one where we had to pull the halfshafts to drive home as Nitemare Pete had run out of spare diffs). :thud
You forgot to add we all took the Micky while you struggled to change the parts, we would have helped if you got stuck :neener :neener
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Approaching Hanger Lane roundabout the clutch release failed. So we had to get across the roundabout, through many traffic lights and junctions with clutchless gear changes to get home. Wherever we came to a halt would be where we called the Big Yellow Taxi.
Amazingly, we made it all the way home. It was an exciting trip especially in first gear and a foot on the brake as we crept towards the car in front hoping the lights would change!
Between us, my lad & I did over 300 miles in Morocco doing clutchless changes, including stop-start through a couple of towns, and a hairy climb to a camp site in stop-start traffic!!
Needs must - it was our second day in Morocco, so didn't even consider giving up, and I'd done it before with one of my first wrecks cars in the late 70s, so had some experience.
Easy enough to set off, though it probably puts quite a bit of strain on the starter, especially uphill starts! 1st gear, operate starter and away you go.
The rigid pipe from flexi to slave cylinder (S3) had developed a pinhole leak.
Took it off, laying underneath fighting off the ants while the others were being plied with hard liquor by the campsite caretaker! and a local guy brazed it up the next morning :cheers
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The snag was we didn't have a working starter motor either :agh
It's stuff like this that makes every trip in the Land Rover an adventure :first
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The snag was we didn't have a working starter motor either :agh
Ah, of course. Not easy to arrange stops so you're always facing downhill :stars
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I broke down in my Series 3 in 1990 whilst going to the tip without checking the oil first . Blew a nice hole in the block !
I too have had the gear-lever break off at the bottom in a Series 3 work vehicle back in 1976 when it wasn’t very old or many miles on it . Luckily I was still in the quarry where I worked and had just pulled up where I needed to be so I just left it for the ‘ fitters’ to sort out .
But I’ve had many more breakdowns in our work Ford Rangers, two in quick succession on the same vehicle . We have about 10 on the fleet at any one time and they’ve all broken down at some point. Mine needed a new engine this time .
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Series 1 related, my pal had a diff pinion bearing collapse, early S1s had a huge double ball race and spring in Baslow on our way to our cavinclub cottage near Bakewell. Rear propshaft off, pinion out, blanking plate made from cardboard and plastic fertiliser bag and red hermatite (I remember that bit cos it got everywhere, did I add that it was raining at the time). There followed an interesting drive for the rest of the journey as being an earlyone it had a "freewheel" gearbox which meant that as we were relying on the front axle for drive every time his foot came of the gas it coasted and he had no hand brake. Once at the cotteage we pulled the diff and swapped it for the one from my land rover that was in pieces. The diff was rebuilt during the week with a new pinion bearing and spring. We borrowed the diff setting up tools from Crabtree and Nicol tthe Rover agent in Sheffield. For an early diff they were just 2 pieces of machined steel. these tools were brand new they had had thenm since 1948 and never ysed them, that is why we could borrow them. The diffs were swapped again the next weekend and my dad measured the tools and got copies made in the toolrom where he worked.
We had some really interesting and challenging times with those early S!s running them on a shoestring.