S2C Forum Archives
Main Section => Welcome to our virtual Pub Meeting ... => Topic started by: A-Ro on March 26, 2021, 12:23:44 PM
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My 6 pot is having an MOT and the test centre has reported that they can’t do an MOT because it doesn’t have a chassis plate and that she should not be allowed on the road. It’s been taken there by the garage who were fixing the fuel problem and I asked for an MOT because it is time for a new one and it made sense while she was in the garage anyway. I’ve told the garage that the plate is behind the square heater not because I know it’s there but because that’s where I know them to be. I can’t believe this is happening, I’ve owned her for 15 years and never had any issues in the past.
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Make your own stamped plate and problem sorted, doesn't need to be a " proper " L/R version - been there myself done that :tiphat
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Is it pre- 1st Aug 1980?
If so, not having a chassis plate, or not visible is not an MOT fail!
See HERE (https://www.gov.uk/guidance/mot-inspection-manual-for-private-passenger-and-light-commercial-vehicles/0-identification-of-the-vehicle)
Robin.
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Is it a Series 2?
Is ther no chassis plate anywhere?
Is the chassis number visible on the drivers side dumb iron? If not get it stamped pronto.
Do you have a valid V5 for it
If you have a V5 you can buy the correct stamped plate from the club. Contact Alexander Bywaters.
Hopefully the test centre just refused to test it. Any other course of action could lead to DVLA getting involved. the fact that the garage got it wrong to start with wont wash with DVLA. As far as they are concerened no number on the chassis means no identity. I have written about this quite often.
Speak to the garage doing the work and ask if they can stamp the dumb iron.
Peter
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I asked about the chassis stamping and apparently that won’t do it has to be the VIN plate. Thanks for the link about the VIN plate I phoned them and they went away and looked it up and agreed it doesn’t need one, the only hiccup now is they are a fairly new to doing MOTs and this is the first historic vehicle they have done and they can’t work out how to get the details into the new computerised system. I’m waiting for a phone call so hopefully she’ll be back today.
They did look for the plate behind the heater and there isn’t one which surprises me I’ve got to say, I’ve never had a Landy without one and I’ve had a few over the years. When I get her back I’ll be ordering a new one.
Thanks for your help.
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Let me have sight of the V5 - chassis number and the address, paypal £20 or £15 (member) to [email protected]
I'll sort for you
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Flat-heater models have the plate mounted in the dashboard, above the driver’s right knee.
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Flat-heater models have the plate mounted in the dashboard, above the driver’s right knee.
Mine definitely doesn’t, it will when I order one off Alex though.
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I asked about the chassis stamping and apparently that won’t do it has to be the VIN plate. Thanks for the link about the VIN plate I phoned them and they went away and looked it up and agreed it doesn’t need one, the only hiccup now is they are a fairly new to doing MOTs and this is the first historic vehicle they have done and they can’t work out how to get the details into the new computerised system. I’m waiting for a phone call so hopefully she’ll be back today.
They did look for the plate behind the heater and there isn’t one which surprises me I’ve got to say, I’ve never had a Landy without one and I’ve had a few over the years. When I get her back I’ll be ordering a new one.
Thanks for your help.
When I took one for MOT without a chassis plate or stamped dumb-iron, they took the chassis number from the V5 to input on to the system.
I eventually found the chassis plate for that one - in a box as I'd been doing some work on the bulkhead - but if I hadn't I'd have got one via the S2C (AlexB).
Robin.
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Biggest load of rubbish I've ever heard, "shouldn't be on the road without a VIN number." :thud
As you probably know by now - VIN numbers weren't invented until 1979 - the concept didn't exist before then.
(Gooooooooooooooooooooooogle it)
Take it to another garage/MoT station that knows their business.
That said - if they want to learn. The VOSA/DVLA (or what ever they are called today) have a hot line where the tester can be talked through the process of entering the data into the computer.
From 1967 onwards when flat heaters were fitted as standard Land Rover repositioned the chassis plate as described ^^^
to here:-
(http://www.series2club.co.uk/gallery/technical/images/chassis_plate_position.jpg)
You may not have a chassis plate, but you should see the 4 screw holes (for self tapping screws) where it was/should be - if it's the original bulkhead.
For a new bulkhead, it won't have the holes.
For an early bulkhead the chassis plate holes with be behind where the flat heater is now.
Some POs may have retro fitted an early bulkhead because it was less rusty than the original.
Some POs may have "upgraded" an older vehicle to a flat heater.
Any road up, this should be an easy matter to resolve.
:RHD
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Agree with above!
Take it to another MOT station, one that knows how to deal with historic vehicles. Consider the list of friendly stations on the FBVHC site https://www.fbhvc.co.uk/historic-friendly-mot-stations
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Take it somewhere else.
If they have to refer to a higher authority about the presence/absence of the chassis plate, they’re not going to be competent to make a decision about its roadworthyness. If you do take it to them, be prepared to deal with an appeal of the inevitable fail.
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Minded of the garage that failed Tonka for not having working lights. The Tester had never met an MOD 6-way light switch before...
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Needless to say they have responded to having their ignorance pointed out by failing her on a misaligned headlamp and excessive play in a front wheel bearing. My garage can’t fix these until Monday which isn’t a big issue for me but my garage said that the play isn’t that excessive and they didn’t think there was enough there to fail it outright.
Cest la vie, it’ll be back on Monday.
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Needless to say they have responded to having their ignorance pointed out by failing her on a misaligned headlamp and excessive play in a front wheel bearing. My garage can’t fix these until Monday which isn’t a big issue for me but my garage said that the play isn’t that excessive and they didn’t think there was enough there to fail it outright.
Cest la vie, it’ll be back on Monday.
Maybe they haven't encountered taper wheel bearings?
The place I used to go to (on the list I linked to) didn't fail mine on misaligned headlights - they adjusted them - no charge!
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:ditto
Quite so - they have the beam setter all set up - just takes a tweak on 2 screws to get it right - a few seconds at most.
(Your headlights should be in such a condition that the adjusters work.)
Shouldn't really be submitting a vehicle that doesn't pass the wheel rock test - though a lot of people just "wing it" - put the vehicle in and hope for the best :shakeinghead
No excuse for "simple" fails that could/should have been spotted on a pre-MoT check - things like broken bulbs, worn tyres, cracked windscreen, no horn, etc. etc.
:RHD
:bright-idea
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Yes, you’re right, I’m defending my garage but they are culpable to a certain extent because they should have checked those things.
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First time I took my MGB for a test it became apparent the chassis number plate on the slam panel was missing (had been a full resto a few years earlier and probably missing since then). My tester got it up on the system from the registration plate and wrote the chassis number on a piece of paper and sat it in the window. Passed no problem and I ordered a new blank chassis plate when I got home. :cheers
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With my VRO hat on!!
Whoever says the stamped in number on the dumb iron wont do is talking absolute twaddle.
These vehicles DONOT HAVE A VIN, they were built before VINs were dreampt up (It is an important distinction) They have a cxhjassis or car number stamped on the chassis. It is also on a bulkhead/chassis plate that is fastened elsewher usually on the bulkhead but some are on the seat box and some on the radiator slam panel. However and this is important - it is only secured by screws and is portable. There is no requirement to have that plate, it everyone relied on that it would be so easy to clone vehicles
If the MOT station is new to MOTs they should be on the ball and be aware of the rules as they will have only just been trained.
The bulkhead plate is easier for the tester to read than the chassis number
The stamped in chassis number is the vehicle identifier.
On modern cars there is a non removable VIN visible through the windscreen but it is also stamped into the bodyshell in several places.
If it was my MOT station I would have been arguing the toss.
Peter
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there are MOT stations / testers and there are MOT stations / testers !
My normal station was fine until they let the "child" do the MOT. Testing the handbrake while on the move resulted in my having to replace the lt77 much earlier than I had intended
I don't think things will get better as fewer and fewer old cars will be MOT'd and the gene pool of experienced testers will fade away
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This is from the testers instructions in the manual
You must check the vehicle is displaying a legible vehicle identification number.
A vehicle identification number (VIN or chassis number) is required on:
kit cars and amateur built vehicles first used on or after 1 September 2001
all other vehicles first used on or after 1 August 1980
Vehicles may have the VIN displayed in more than one location, but only one VIN is required to be complete and legible.
It does not say that you have to have a stamped plate!!! It just says thatVIN or chassis number has to be legible. Where would you expect to find a chassis number if not on the chassis.
Can you tell this has really got me annoyed.
Peter
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One MOT the tester said the vehicle (S11A 1972) failed on emissions because the engine was a '92 and was tested as such also failed because it did not have belts for the second row seats and failed because it did not have any working hazard lights. He went off to have a word with his mate at the DVLA. Came back with the pass certificate.
Alec
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If you take your truck for MOT make sure you have access to the testers manual, you may have to explain the rules to the tester.
Peter
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If you are not happy with the outcome of your MoT test you can appeal/complain.
New owners and people new to the hobby should ask on here what the MoT deal is.
We can advise on what is tested and how.
We can advise on garages/test stations that know about old Land Rovers and how to test them.
We are not after an easy pass - we just want the test conducted properly, by the book.
Attached HERE (https://www.gov.uk/guidance/mot-inspection-manual-for-private-passenger-and-light-commercial-vehicles) is the MoT Testers Manual ... recommended bed-time reading.
Also, I've attached a Pre-MoT check list and guide as to what is tested ... HERE (https://www.rac.co.uk/drive/advice/car-maintenance/everything-you-need-to-know-about-mots/)
:RHD
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Maybe they haven't encountered taper wheel bearings?
The place I used to go to (on the list I linked to) didn't fail mine on misaligned headlights - they adjusted them - no charge!
My local guy did the same for me , there are some decent men left
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Hi,
My understanding is that the MOT fee should take a specified time, which allows for minor adjustments, and replacements.
But hey, what do I know?
602
OT, I assume everybody knows that an unbraked trailer (and probably others) should have it's MGW marked ON, or NEAR, the drawbar. One inch (25mm) high, hand painted characters are acceptable, but I bought me a set of number stamps (I think about £9 from Tool Station). I think the regulations demand more, but that would be unrealistic on most old trailers.
The ultimate weight limiiting factor are the MGW of the tyres (My rule of thumb is that 10" Mini tyres are 600kg per pair, and just about anything else will be close to 750kg. Remember we will soon have the age of ALL our tyres to contend with.
Another of my rules of thumb, is the rubber suspension units with 4 bolt fitting are probably 500kg MGW, and 6 bolts are probably 750kg MGW. But repeat PROBABLY, you should really invert the trailer, and try to find the makers GVW stamp.
Tongue in cheek time ... I read somewhere, many yonks ago, that if more than 20% of the trailer's weight is super-imposed on the tractor unit, the rig becomes "articulated". Please don't quote me on that, do your own research.
I assume we have heard the story about the police stopping a Ford Transit van on the motorway. They wanted to know why the driver kept stopping, getting out and kicking the sides of his van.
The driver explained that his van had a 1000kg load capacity, but he was carrying 2000kg of live chickens ... he had to keep at least half of them airbourne.
I'll get my coat.
602
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If you are not happy with the outcome of your MoT test you can appeal/complain.
:RHD
Years ago I took my 80" for an MoT after just rebuilding both swivels . Garage failed it on play in wheel bearing. So I advised that I had just rebuilt it using a dial gauge to set the end float to the minimum specified. He still said it was a fail. I then asked him what the process was to appeal and he changed his decision ( this time!)
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Speaking as an ex MOT tester, if going by the book, you are not allowed to make any adjustments or repairs during the test, if the ministry man was there watching the vehicle either passed or failed no matter how trivial the fault. One example was, we used to test cars for other branches of our company, if it was a car they had for sale, they sometimes had a dealer name badge Velcro’d on to the number plate, during a normal test, we would just take it off, but if you happened to be being observed by someone from VOSA or whoever it was, the vehicle would have to be failed if you hadn’t taken it off before you started the test.
Phil.
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Speaking as an ex MOT tester, if going by the book, you are not allowed to make any adjustments or repairs during the test, if the ministry man was there watching the vehicle either passed or failed no matter how trivial the fault.
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From the current MOT inspection manual HERE (https://www.gov.uk/guidance/mot-inspection-manual-for-private-passenger-and-light-commercial-vehicles/4-lamps-reflectors-and-electrical-equipment#section-4-1-2)
"You must not carry out repairs during an MOT test, but you can make minor adjustments to the headlamp aim."
:tiphat
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From the current MOT inspection manual HERE (https://www.gov.uk/guidance/mot-inspection-manual-for-private-passenger-and-light-commercial-vehicles/4-lamps-reflectors-and-electrical-equipment#section-4-1-2)
"You must not carry out repairs during an MOT test, but you can make minor adjustments to the headlamp aim."
:tiphat
It’s the best part of 20 years since I last did a test, I’m sure the rules will have changed a lot since then, just quoting my experience.
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I remember mine being failed a few years ago on the wheel nuts being on backwards, when the usual guy let the youngster do it.
I had to take one off to prove it to him it was fitted with the original double ended nuts, he'd never seen anything like it before.
That youngster is now the garage owner and knows old Land Rovers inside out - got to learn somewhere !
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To add insult to injury there was absolutely nothing wrong with the headlamp setting, it appears they tested the dipped beam setting which was ever so slightly different from each other.
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There are 4 holes in the bulkhead for the chassis plate however they have never seen a self tapper screw.
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Thanks to Alex I now have a proper plate fitted in the correct position.
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:tiphat