S2C Forum Archives
Main Section => Welcome to our virtual Pub Meeting ... => Topic started by: rosinante on May 09, 2021, 10:34:27 AM
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Just been browsing, have seen an early s2 58 for sale from a landrovet "specialist" for £42500, listed as original , having had a 1000 hour restoration , I'm no rivet counter but a quick look at the pics shows a 2 bolt hinge tailgate which is totally wrong being of a one piece pressing, how do these so called specialists get away with it ?
They are also advertising a 4x2 , one pic clearly shows a red hi lo ratio lever and a late curved handbrake lever , this one is a late S1 at £27500, we S2 owners must be sitting on a goldmine
Chris
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it is a bit scary, both the asking prices and the lack of knowledge
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Links? ???
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Dunno how to post links , but ebay and face book , Williams classics
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Dunno how to post links , but ebay and face book , Williams classics
https://www.williamsclassics.co.uk/vehicles-for-sale/
Always has a number of Land Rovers in stock
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Just been browsing, have seen an early s2 58 for sale from a landrovet "specialist" for £42500, listed as original , having had a 1000 hour restoration , I'm no rivet counter but a quick look at the pics shows a 2 bolt hinge tailgate which is totally wrong being of a one piece pressing, how do these so called specialists get away with it ?
They are also advertising a 4x2 , one pic clearly shows a red hi lo ratio lever and a late curved handbrake lever , this one is a late S1 at £27500, we S2 owners must be sitting on a goldmine
Chris
Just 'cause it's 4x2 doesn't mean it doesn't have hi and lo?
It doesn't have the yellow 4x4 press "lever"
it also doesn't seem to have a front diff!
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Just been browsing, have seen an early s2 58 for sale from a landrovet "specialist" for £42500, listed as original , having had a 1000 hour restoration , I'm no rivet counter but a quick look at the pics shows a 2 bolt hinge tailgate which is totally wrong being of a one piece pressing, how do these so called specialists get away with it ?
It does look "pretty" but I have to confess that for £42,500 I would want a SII tailgate, a passenger windscreen wiper and a heater/demist kit.
And I still wouldn't pay that much for a vehicle that is only suitable for a few dry days use a year, and to park outside the pub for "admiring glances".
But then the vehicle isn't aimed at "us"........
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This site was mentioned on the Series 1 forum, a listing of auction prices. If you want to really scare yourself, have a browse of the Series 2 sold listings :agh
https://www.glenmarch.com
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I've said this before, but I'm still of the opinion that there's an effort by several individuals/dealers to artificially inflate the perceived value of older Land Rovers generally.
How many standard 2's/2a's have actually sold for over 20k?
Unfortunately rather than stimulating interest in these vehicles higher perceived values are likely, in my opinion, to ultimately cause stagnation in interest, ownership and use as they become the occasional weekend plaything of wealthy old men, yuppies or are squirreled away by "investors".
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I've said this before, but I'm still of the opinion that there's an effort by several individuals/dealers to artificially inflate the perceived value of older Land Rovers generally.
How many standard 2's/2a's have actually sold for over 20k?
Unfortunately rather than stimulating interest in these vehicles higher perceived values are likely, in my opinion, to ultimately cause stagnation in interest, ownership and use as they become the occasional weekend plaything of wealthy old men, yuppies or are squirreled away by "investors".
As said ^^^^ I would never become interested on Land Rovers if I had to pay the prices we now see.
I use my 11a as a daily driver over 300 days a year and enjoy it :first
My S1's perhaps less as not enough days in the year..........
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I absolutely agree with both above comments. Round here, there are quite a few Series LRs bought by such people and some for well north of £20K. The problem is that I think that to this type of buyer, a £20K car of any type is relatively small change, so even if they lose money on the purchase, its not a big issue to them. The positive side of that though is that these same people are prepared to pay proper money to have things fixed and maintained correctly. Its very satisfying to sort out a nice old Series LR and do the job really well, knowing that a client has the funds to pay for all the effort rather than lash ups that had to be done in the past. I only do work on these vehicles as a sideline (it all started as a means to keep sane during last year's lock down as my ability to do my real job was and remains, severely curtailed). The bubble may burst, but in my view, given the amount of work involved, a well sorted, safe, reliable and rust free Series LR should be worth a lot of money. I'm doing a chassis and bulkhead on a late 2A 88" at the moment. The base job is about £8k, but by the time you've also done the brakes, steering, axles and all the other maintenance parts, this is well over £10K and could go higher. That has to be reflected in future values. If you then add in a respray and bodywork, that pushes any restoration well into the low £20ks especially if you also do the powertrain.
We basically have two types of Series LR. The rough old enthusiast one which is owner maintained (as far as possible), a bit doggy round the edges and probably needs a lot of work to keep it going. That's your sub £10K LR - anything from £2K upwards. At the other end of the scale you have your concours total rebuild which won't even start the bidding below £20K. Then if its sold with providence (owned by Churchill or the Dalai Lama for example), the sky really is the limit.
In effect, there are at least two different sale markets here and we can fit into which ever one suits us as individuals.
The bottom line is we may not like the prices going up for accessibility reasons, but as investments, they are a sound bet if you pay good money but not excessive money for one.
We have to remember that what for most of us started out as a utility cheap vehicle, easy to maintain and run, has now turned into a proper real classic car and the prices reflect this.
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A key part of all that is the impact on spares availability and quality. I would hope that the interest shown by people willing to pay for "a good job" will have a positive impact on what is offered by the pattern parts makers. The arrival of at least one good bulkhead provider is another major step forward from where we were 5 years ago...
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it is a bit scary, both the asking prices and the lack of knowledge
Hi the "lack of knowledge " is rubbish , plausible deniability doesn't wash when the avaristic dealer purports to have been a specialist for 30 years and has several different varieties of the marque on the books. It's a sales speak get out ,I bet if you went to view it and asked a few pointed questions the bull would start.
Chris
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What you ask for and what you get are 2 different things.... dreams
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These prices are not aimed at the likes of us ordinary forum Landy lovers. They are aimed at the type of person who believes that if it is expensive, it must be good, if it is cheap, its rubbish. Over the years I have sold Landys to the expensive "shops" like John Brown, a lovely bunch. I have always asked them how they can sell a vehicle that they gave me £6k for, in their showroom for £20k plus. The answer is always the same, the rich, and he did name names, have the opinion that I stated above. So a £20k series 2 must be the dogs.....
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It's childish of me to criticise. However one of the websites has very nice looking 1961 88 for £35k and says
"The factory fitted engine busts into life at the turn of the key."
I would hope it BURSTS into life with a press of the starter button
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very nice looking 1961 88 for £35k and says
"The factory fitted engine busts into life at the turn of the key."
I think this ^ is the kind of brainless piffle that the very worst sellers engage in.
What exactly do they expect an engine on a £35K vehicle to do?
Lie down and beg? ::)
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As it states "factory fitted engine," does that mean it's the original one?
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These crazy vehicle prices seem to filter down to rusty parts as well.
I am in the midst of a 4yr restoration of my 1958 Landy and I try and use original parts rather than new reproductions but its hard when
you see components advertised for sale that are in very poor condition.
An item that should be displaying a galvanised finish is daubed in black chipped paint and the seller is expecting a Gold price that matches new or greater than new for it.
I try and justify why my offer is much lower that the sellers great expectations but they seem deaf to the points raised.
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^^^ Sadly there are those out there who have realised that if they take the extra effort to dismantle vehicles to the smallest component then they can charge a kings ransom, a bit at a time. Its also not unknown to see rusted un-reconditioned parts on Ebay for more than reputable suppliers will charge for NOS stock.
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I find current prices so depressing. I am looking for a honest car, and sadly I seem to be price out of the market.
An early S2a absolute rotter, chassis and BH completely gone, was sold at auction 2 weeks ago for £4500… who buys this??
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Someone is hoping to do it up on the cheap and sell at a high price for a quick buck.
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I find current prices so depressing. I am looking for a honest car, and sadly I seem to be price out of the market.
An early S2a absolute rotter, chassis and BH completely gone, was sold at auction 2 weeks ago for £4500… who buys this??
Bide your time and keep looking, they do still turn up at realistic prices.
The last one I bought, in 2020, is a total "basket case" (or perhaps dustpan would be more appropriate) but despite the condition of the chassis and bulkhead the rest is restorable and it has a good history, the seller wanted less than 1k for it.
One of the best places to find a good honest example is the for sale section here on the forum.
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Hi,
Should I chastise myself for offering "The Aunt" for sale for £3,000? Dunno!
Do I sleep at night? Yes!
602
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But John, it went to someone who will cherish it
Peter
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Indeed I will. I sometimes think im an idiot for selling a complete, running, all functioning ex Royal Navy , 1955 series 1 for £100 a few years ago. And what about the dozens of early Range Rover Classics I ruined by off roading them and then weighing them in to the scrappy ? Then there are all the series Land Rovers that have been through my hands. But I remind myself all these were acquired for nothing or very little money, I was happy at the time with these deals. Don't beat yourself up by dwelling on the past.
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Indeed I will. I sometimes think im an idiot for selling a complete, running, all functioning ex Royal Navy , 1955 series 1 for £100 a few years ago. And what about the dozens of early Range Rover Classics I ruined by off roading them and then weighing them in to the scrappy ? Then there are all the series Land Rovers that have been through my hands. But I remind myself all these were acquired for nothing or very little money, I was happy at the time with these deals. Don't beat yourself up by dwelling on the past.
Sound advice… I would still like to buy an affordable S2 though 🙁
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Just 'cause it's 4x2 doesn't mean it doesn't have hi and lo?
It doesn't have the yellow 4x4 press "lever"
it also doesn't seem to have a front diff!
Hi , the 4x2 s didn't have a front diff , nor did they have hi lo , the low ratio gears were replaced with a pair of matched spacers, the front drive was removed and replaced with a cone shaped bearing housing, the plates fir the hi, lo and 4wd were blanks . The one for 27500 pounds has the wrong gearbox , for that kind of money it would need to be right.
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I am going to go see this car today.
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Land-Rover-series-2a-petrol-88-full-canvas-top-/234007587238?_trksid=p2349624.m46890.l49286
Not really the year I was after, as I really want center lights, but I cannot seem to find anything within my budget that doesn’t require significant amount of work.
Assuming the chassis is as clean as it look. What do you think it’s work?
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‘Reserve Not Met.’ Don’t get too excited.
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Doesn't look too bad. I'm wondering if it might have already had a chassis at some point. Its certainly had a lot of work done on it over the years. I note that the LH footwell has been plated and rivetted... Watch that as it is a sign of a cover up. To make that bulkhead sound, those should really be cut out and new plates let in, or a new footwell.
There is no MOT history which fits with it having been stored for 9 years.
The battery needs securing
Check that the chassis number on the RH dumb iron is actually there (and of course matches the bulkhead plate).
Generally doesn't look to bad to me, but it would be interesting to know what the reserve is. I don't understand why people advertise cars on eBay like this. Post it at the price you want and let it run for a few weeks at a fixed price. Nice and simple and doesn't leave potential buyers guessing.
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^^^ OR at least have a start price for the minimum you will take
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Sound advice… I would still like to buy an affordable S2 though 🙁
I would like to buy an affordable Aston Martin DB6, or an affordable chateau, or maybe an affordable luxury island. The thing is, they are worth what someone will pay for them. If you can afford less than someone else is prepared to pay, they will buy it. There are some benchmark figures around on another thread, which indicate likely ranges by condition but nothing is absolute. If the going rate is higher than you can afford/are willing to pay, you have to be patient, see if you can score a bargain or look for an alternative.
Classic car prices are not yet falling but depending on what you are happy with, there are still options. A late Series 3 is less expensive. Alternatively, they may start to fall in the autumn - furlough created a bubble for a lot of jobs and people had disposable income and available time as a consequence of not going out. Easily restorable vehicles got more expensive as a result (see the adverts for 'lockdown project'). The end of the furlough scheme if it comes will see jobs going, as will the need for businesses to start repaying COVID loans from June 21st. Maybe the Indian variant will push dates out, maybe it will be like the scare stories over the South African variant etc. and actually those who have been infected or vaccinated will be equally protected. If it increases/extends restrictions, prices will probably stay high for the above reasons. When restrictions and financial support ease, prices at the lower end of the market will probably fall as the amount of money/time decreases and people realise they will never actually complete that lockdown project.
Alec
(I fear that however much prices fall I still won't be able to buy myself a luxury island though... :-X)
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I ended buying the car from the owner this morning.
He owns a farm equipment dealership, and had his maintenance department sort the car out for him 9 years ago when he bought the car. They stripped the car, cut out all the rusty bit and painted the whole chassis for protection (as they would with agricultural machinery). They changed a lot of things on it. Money wasn’t an issue to fix all that needed sorting (always helps to have staff that can do it for you lol)
He then stored it along with dozens of other cars in his private collection, in a climate controlled shed, on trickle charger and never used the car until last week when he took it out to take pictures to go on eBay.
The car needs a little bit if work, just a few bits due to the fact it hasn’t moved in 9years. Spongey breaks, clutch/gearbox need fiddling and few bits and bobs
I was hoping I could buy an earlier model with center light, but the price made me go for it. I now have 2 almost identical cars - a bronze green and a marine blue 🤣
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Have you told your wife yet?! (Just twigged who you are in Instagram!)
Lovely looking vehicle :skol
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Have you told your wife yet?!
I did and after laughing thinking I was joking she shook her head and asked where I was going to park it.
The good news is that I am still married :o
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I am surprised how much things are going for these days. I would have thought you had a reasonable buy at £7k.
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I was hoping I could buy an earlier model with center light,
Don't worry about having a lights-in-the-wing model. They were only made for about two and a half years.
Lights in the middle were made for 11 years.
So you've bought a rarity! :-X
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I am surprised how much things are going for these days. I would have thought you had a reasonable buy at £7k.
That’s about what I paid in the end
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So you've bought a rarity! :-X
Well, have 2 slightly different cars was easier to sell to the wife… I guess it might be a matter of 3 times a charm :-)
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Just been browsing through the S2’s on eBay at present. A mixed bag. My eye was drawn to an extremely rare 1959 4x2 at just shy of £10k. I don’t have an opinion on the vehicle, but when the seller suggested it was both “economical and comfortable”, alarm bells started to ring.
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Just been browsing through the S2’s on eBay at present. A mixed bag. My eye was drawn to an extremely rare 1959 4x2 at just shy of £10k. I don’t have an opinion on the vehicle, but when the seller suggested it was both “economical and comfortable”, alarm bells started to ring.
I have a 4x2, he's right there are very few left, there is a S1 4x2 also for sale at just £27500, that one has over drive , a series 3 hand brake and a hi,lo ratio lever , pretending ignorance I contacted him expressing mild interest asking if the red lever was the over drive , he replied that it was for the low ratio confirming wrong box fitted , the dealer proudly states they have been Landrover specialists for 30 years , dealers eh?
Chris
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Just 'cause it's 4x2 doesn't mean it doesn't have hi and lo?
It doesn't have the yellow 4x4 press "lever"
it also doesn't seem to have a front diff!
Hi Ihave a 4x2, the transfer boxes are modified and do not have hi lo facilties, the box has no low ratio gears , these being replaced by a matched pair of spacers , the plates in the cab are not drilled or slotted for any levers ,I have two of these gearboxes .
Chris
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Hi Ihave a 4x2, the transfer boxes are modified and do not have hi lo facilties, the box has no low ratio gears , these being replaced by a matched pair of spacers , the plates in the cab are not drilled or slotted for any levers ,I have two of these gearboxes .
Chris
I wonder how much extra the RAF paid to have these less effective vehicles made ?
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I heard that on the Series Ones anyway, they actually ended up costing more because they were non standard!
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The S2 4x2 were ordered by War Dept and all for the army , reputedly cost more , modified txfr case , special axle tube as oil throwers in swivels ,
Chris
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Having been looking closely at prices for LWB S2,3 and 110s over the past week or so trying to find one there seems to be some very odd ideas out there about what vehicles are worth.
However with a bit of analysis as far as I can tell this is how you work out Land Rover prices
If it says "Easy Project" it's £5K overpriced
If its a trade seller its 10K overpriced
If it says barn find it's £15K overpriced
If it says "USA Exportable" on an advert its £20K overpriced
But if its what I would like, 200 miles from me and not on any sensible rail route from here it will be an absolute bargain and be unsold for weeks just to annoy me..............
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I heard that on the Series Ones anyway, they actually ended up costing more because they were non standard!
My point exactly. Fairly typical of MoD Procurement still !
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The 4x2s cost a hell of a lot more than a standard Land Rover, probably twice.
They were not the best idea and were quickly dropped :shakeinghead
Someone probably got a promotion for the idea :thud