S2C Forum Archives
Main Section => Welcome to our virtual Pub Meeting ... => Topic started by: Graham Smith on June 15, 2021, 09:56:49 PM
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Hi,
Posting this on behalf of a friend who needs advice.
Its an 80 inch I believe that was converted to a trailer.
It may still have the original running gear.
She would like to know if it’s just a trailer and get rid for £200 or is it worth more in spare parts.
She may be able to get the chassis number as the front end was kept by a friend but is having difficulty contacting them.
I advised to register with the S1 forum but you have to join the club.
Any advice much appreciated.
Thank you
P.S I’ll try to post some pics
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Some pics
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More (I hope)
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And again
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You don’t have to join the series 1 club, you can register and use the forum without joining the club.
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Hi,
I assume that a tidy 80" tub is worth a few bob? Back axle? I wouldn't bother with the original springs.
Way back in my days at DVLA, I pondered (in my own time) on the legality of converting the back end of a van into trailer. I had read something in the DVLA rules (VED offences, and presumably insurance) that a motor vehicle does not cease to be a motor vehicle, just because the engine has been removed.
I have also read that a vehicle on a ROW (and presumably anywhere else that the public have a RIGHT to access, even if they have to pay) must have registration plates, and a V5. Would that imply an SVA, if the chassis had be altered?
:can_of_worms :can_of_worms :can_of_worms , so I kept my mouth shut ... until now.
And then there is the matter of brakes. The ACTUAL LADEN WEIGHT of an unbraked trailer must not exceed 750kgs, nor 50% of the kerbweight of the tow car. Probably irrelevant, but keep it in mind. I suspect (no more than that) that Sankey brakes are related to Series hand brakes ... rod operated and single leading shoes.
602
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You don’t have to join the series 1 club, you can register and use the forum without joining the club.
Thanks I’ve now registered :tiphat
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If that is a Birmingham Land Rover badge on the back that is worth £60 on ebay alone.
I see you have posted on the series one club now so sure someone out there will be willing to buy it for the tub alone although people will buy anything for an 80", likely the chassis half will live on as well.
Craig.
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There's a whole load of regulations regarding trailers these days does the trailer comply or does it predate these rules?
Alec
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If it were here in the States I'd definitely make her a generous offer 'as is'. I want a trailer made out of the rear end of a Rover. Unfortunately LR rear-ends with the corresponding section of chassis and axle are rather hard to find in my area.
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There's a whole load of regulations regarding trailers these days does the trailer comply or does it predate these rules?
Alec
I'm sure that all the home-made trailers pre-date "the rules".... cough.
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Surprised no one has mentioned yet that it has a tow bar itself and seems to have another trailer hooked onto it.
Craig.
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people will buy anything for an 80", likely the chassis half will live on as well.
It isn't an 80" .... the tub etc is for 86 / 88 :tiphat
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I did wonder that at first but the length between the door opening and the wheel arch didn't look long enough to me?
It's hard to see from the angle of the photo if the door opening face on the trailer angles forwards at the bottom or if it is straight?
Here is my 86" version.
Craig.
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I’ll ask for a better picture side on.
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The owner says she showed the pictures to Williams LR and they said it was an 80 inch
Is this clearer.
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Graham
It has to be worth way more than £200 if someone broke it, S1 axle, straight tailgate and a complete 86/88 tub (you can tell it is not an 80 because the door closure panel is vertical not sloping.)
Peter
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Looks like an 80” tub to me...
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Looks like an 80” tub to me...
Yes :-[ picture 04 is decieving, the last one side on shows it clearly as 80" :tiphat
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I dont remember seeing that last picture but yes, the door shut is sloping so it is an 80"
Peter
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Surprised no one has mentioned yet that it has a tow bar itself and seems to have another trailer hooked onto it.
Craig.
[/quote
Try reversing that lot!
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S1 axle, straight tailgate and a complete 80 tub
Thanks for all the information I’ll let the owner know.
Would anyone care to guesstimate what these parts go for ballpark figure.
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Hi,
I think there is some regulation speciific to towing two trailers (though arguably a loaded towing dolly would count as two trailers) Does anybody know?
There is also the matter of unbraked trailers weighing not more that 750kg MGW. Has anybody taken an S2 to a weighbridge? My S2, with an S1 body with full hardtop weighed in at under 1500kg, so a 750kg trailer would be illegal.
Here is my 86" version.
Hi Craggie,
I agree it's an 86 ... but does everybody here know how I can tell? :cool
602
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John,
Please read the DVLA website for the latest info on A frames & Dollies: https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/a-frames-and-dollies/a-frames-and-dollies
...and as far as I can tell the idea that a towing vehicle must weigh twice the trailer is an urban myth created by the Caravan Club in advice to new owners... The legal situation is that you need to adhere to the data shown on the Chassis plate to determine the "Gross Combination Weight" - set by the towing vehicle manufacturer.
Now, if you really want some fun/like to wake the Kraken, try asking DVLA what the situation is for a vehicle that does not have a stated "GCW". As usual their website is simplified and does not cover our old vehicles which pre-date modern VIN plates. There is a line somewhere else on their site that says that if no weights are shown you should not tow....
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That trailer could go for $1000 over here. I too noticed the second trailer, what's up with that?
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Hi Gene,
Thanks for that link to the po-faced official view.
I am aware that drivers of motor caravans have been stopped on Mainland Europe, but allowed to proceed after abandoning their A-framed "tender". The information was supplied by victims relating their experiences on a UK Motor Home forum.
The problem arises from the requirement that brakes are required on all trailers exceeding 15cwt (750kg) MGW. I an uncertain if that refers to Maximum PERMITTED Gross Weight, or ACTUAL Gross Weight (AGW). Things are further complicated by DVLA referring to KERBWEIGHT, which seems to involve "variables", such as the assumed weight of your Mother-in-Law.
A quick trip into OT Territory. A prospective passenger was refused permission to board an aircraft, as his hand baggage was half a pound over the permitted weight. He solved the problem by removing a pound of Salami sausage from his bag ... and eating half of it.
I am guessing that if a trailer is fitted with brakes, they must work.
My first caravan, a CI Sprite, bought new in 1971, required someone to jump out, to engage the "detent" to prevent the OVER-RUN brakes engaging when reversing.
This system became illegal, with the requirement that trailer brakes should allow the combination to be reversed, without the driver having to leave the cab. Spawn of the Devil ... this device would not prevent the caravan from running away backwards, on my 1 in 8 drive. I know at least one person has been crushed to death, due to this system. The trailer ran away backwards, and pulling the hand brake simply encouraged the "reverse enable" system to de-apply the brakes.
The 602 solution? Allow the driver to engage the "over-run detent" by pulling a bit of string, or if he's really posh, by a switch triggered by the reverse lamp switch, and a solenoid.
I have read of one trailer fitted with hydraulic brakes, with pressure provided by an electric pump that was activated by the stop lamp switch. But I've also read that neither electrically, nor hydraulically operated brakes are not permitted in the UK. That was a long time ago, and things may have changed My mate Bill (in Trebanos .. we have a member living nearby) had an American boat trailer with electric brakes.
A car being towed, with a "steersman", is (or was) regarded as an unbraked trailer. I suspect the RTA specifically permits the towing of a BDV (broken down vehicle) which might imply that you cannot tow an "able-bodied" motor vehicle? My understanding is that a provisional licence holder is not permitted to tow a trailer. I assume there are exceptions for "vocational" learners. ???
I would argue that driving a vehicle above your permitted weight limit, would mean you are driving without a licence, so uninsured ... unless (maybe) you are wearing L-plates, and accompanied by an "Instructor". Your licence should tell you what you can drive as a Learner. :can_of_worms-3 Check the small print. (Barbara was originally restricted to A MOTOR CAR AND A MOTORTRICYCLE, and nothing else, but she now has full B+E entitlement. How did that happen?)
602
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I have a trailer dating from about 1950 which has a tow hitch on the back. It is literally just a hook, but with a hinged locking bar over the top to stop the ring on the second trailer jumping off.
The rules on towing a second trailer seem to rule out all but very specialised situations:
https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/maximum-number-of-trailers/maximum-number-of-trailers
The only get-out appears to be if the first trailer was only used for carrying fuel or equipment used by the towing vehicle, so perhaps carrying jerry cans of fuel and water would count?
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Regarding the second trailer it’s just for security 😊 it’s also chained to a tree.
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Side photo added on S1 forum, but I’m not saying more. :neener
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The rules on towing a second trailer seem to rule out all but very specialised situations:
https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/maximum-number-of-trailers/maximum-number-of-trailers
... just buy a bigger trailer ???
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As said, definitely an 80" tub and rear chassis.
As it stands, probably not worth that much, but to someone who has a rear damaged 80" Land Rover it would be priceless.
Craig.
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My first caravan, a CI Sprite, bought new in 1971, required someone to jump out, to engage the "detent" to prevent the OVER-RUN brakes engaging when reversing.
602
Similar to a Narrow Track Sankey, where the brakes are taken out of operation by putting a "U" shaped collar on the shaft. Collar seen here "stowed"...
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Another vote for it being an 80" tub - its only got two hoops for the canvas (86" and 88" {which is an identical tub} both have three) and also the sloping sides for the 80" doors.
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Sankey train!
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Hi,
Passengers are not allowed to be carried in/on trailers
But in France the tourist towns have "trailer trains" consisting of (presumably) agricultural tractors (dressed up to look like Thomas the Tank Engine), pulling a procession of trailers fitted with charabanc style bodies, similar to the trains of Sankeys shown in the photo posted earlier. I can't remember if the trailers were single axle, of had turn-table steering.
Whatever, they "jarred" with my idea of legality. I bet they are fun to reverse.
602
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Another vote for it being an 80" tub - its only got two hoops for the canvas (86" and 88" {which is an identical tub} both have three) and also the sloping sides for the 80" doors.
Plus it has no corner cappings at the rear.
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Road trains were/are quite common in many of our seaside towns - we have them in Norfolk.
I don't think it's legislation that makes them less common - things like rising costs and the economic slump in our seaside towns that cause their demise. The Cromer road train stopped a few years back as no one could be found to run it when the owner retired.
Great fun for the kids ...
This picture is of the Great Yarmouth road train.
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My wife always refers to them as Wally Trolleys...
Some years ago I was involved in doing some Defenders for Busch Gardens - they were proper Walley Trolleys! Not sure if they are still using them.
A good 80" tub has to be worth saving alone if it hasn't been too badly butchered. From what I can see, it looks pretty unmolested. The back axle has value even if just for the shafts and bearing / hub assemblies for refurbishment. If its still got the diff fitted (which I think it must have given the halfshaft set up), that's very desirable for the Series One fraternity. If the rear springs are OK, they are worth saving / refurbishing / tempering. Chassis remnants probably not worth much without an identity and even then its a bit of a legal hot potato if the front half still exists with an ID.
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Fairground and circus operators and farmers are able to tow multiple trailers legally
Peter
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Farmers can tow two trailers if they are brave enough, but they must be empty. If laden, only one is permitted.
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Oops! A two wheeler with a 4-wheeler behind both loaded with straw bales behind a MF 35 with front end bale loader in 1973 was a bit naughty then.
It was a bit of a surprise for the car driver who pulled out to overtake it too!
Just another summer's day in darkest Herefordshire :cheers
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With MF35 Brakes, that must have been fun! 135s with MultiPower used to scare the proverbial out of me at harvest.
I've done a lot of carting to help out on harvests. Fun seeing how long a queue you can create on the single lane sections of the A303 in the summer. Even more fun driving a FastTrac as you can speed up to a sensible speed then slow down again...
Me...? Malicious??? Not I...
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Hi,
Passengers are not allowed to be carried in/on trailers
602
Urban Myth, put about by the Caravan Club.
We always carry loads of passengers in the trailers behind traction engines and rollers. The fact that they are steam hauled bears no relevance. Farm tractors carry passengers sitting on bales of hay perfectly legally. (Children must sit on the floor)
What the Caravan Club omits to tell anyone, is that it's illegal to carry passengers in "single axle or close couple axle" trailers. And that covers nearly all caravans.
John
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Graham
There is an advert on the LRSOC forum for an 80" tailgate, it shouldnt sell for that price but it gives you the evidence that if parted out that trailer is worth smething.
Peter
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Thanks for the heads up Peter I’ll let Marge know :tiphat
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Just wondering if the S1 body could be parted out and a later Series tub put on? Seems a shame to lose the trailer when there are peoples who want one.