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Main Section => Welcome to our virtual Pub Meeting ... => Topic started by: James P on October 12, 2021, 08:51:52 PM
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Evening,
I'm getting very confused by the tyre market for Series wheels.
If you are running 16 x 5.5 riveted wheels, what tubed tyres are you using with them?
Thanks
James
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I have the same question so am interested in the answer if anyone responds.
I am baffled because I have tubeless 205 / 80 / 16 kuhmo's on my riveted rims but with no tubes inside!
These seem to have served their previous owner well for many years against the odds but are now cracked and perished.
Big question is what to replace them with?
Thanks
Tim
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No idea if mine are riveted wheels or not, but am running 600 x 16s with tubes on the 59 swb (sats / deestone type
Wolf rims and michelins 750 x 16s on the Dormobile
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Michelin 750 x 16 XLZ are my favourites from research so far, but they're a bit expendius.
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750 Wrangler radials, LWB rims on our 58 S2 SWB. Our 59 SWB has 750s on SWB rims. OUr 2 S1s, 1954 LWB and 1951 80" are both running on 750s too. The 59 has been on 750s for over 40 years.
Peter
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750 Wrangler radials, LWB rims on our 58 S2 SWB. Our 59 SWB has 750s on SWB rims. OUr 2 S1s, 1954 LWB and 1951 80" are both running on 750s too. The 59 has been on 750s for over 40 years.
Peter
Hi Peter, I've seen references such as yours before and am left wondering just what is the difference between LWB and SWB rims.
I have 205`s on my 88" but have no idea if the rims are LWB or SWB, how can I tell ???. One day want to change to 750 - 16`s.
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SWB wheels are 5 inches wide and ,LWB rims are 5.5 inches
Peter
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As mentioned rims for the 6.00 x 16" tyres are only 5" wide and the ones for the larger 7.50 x 16" tyres are 5.5" wide.
88" models were available with 7.50 x 16" tyres as an option so presumably they came with the wider rims as well. Most people however call SWB rims the 5" ones and LWB rims the 5.5" ones.
Earlier 5.5" rims had the extra 0.5" width on the inside so externally they look the same as the 5" rims. On later rims they moved the extra 0.5" width to the outside so the change was then visible from outside the vehicle. Once you see the wider rims it is very easy to spot the differences. Not sure when the change to the rim profile took place, my 1967 has the extra 0.5" on the inside but I think it was soon afterwards it changed over.
I always thought the reason for running tubes in Land Rover wheels was the rivets not forming a seal but a tyre fitter then corrected me and said that these rims don't have a bead lock. If you look at all modern tubeless and alloy rims they have a ridge around the inside of the bead. You fit the tyre on the inside of these beads, inflate the tyre then you get two loud bangs as the tyre slips over that ridge and locks itself in place against the bead.
If you have tried to break a bead on a tubeless tyre using levers, it really forms a good lock and is very hard to get back off.
The tyre fitter then went on to say that yes, you could inflate a tubeless tyre on a Land Rover steel wheel and it would likely stay inflated fine. The problem comes if you get a slow puncture or hit an obstacle that pushes the tyre sidewall hard enough to dislodge the seat. If that happens you will lose all the air in the tyre instantly and the tyre walls will drop into the well of the rim. This would be very hard to control if you were still traveling as the steel wheel would likely end up on the tarmac.
Craig.
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There is some useful info on Teriannes site in the US regarding Rims.
http://www.expeditionlandrover.info/wheels.htm
I also have a copy of some rim pictures if I can find it.
Paul
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I was advised by both Rover engineers and Michelin engineers when I worked for Rover , always use a tube if fitting a Radial tyre onto an original well base rim . As mentioned high, cornering forces available with radial tyres can pull the tyre off its seat with instant deflation . This is most likely to happed if taking violent avoiding action , when you least want it to happen . The rims for tubeless radials have the humps to retain the tyre. Conversely never fit a tube to rims with the humps as the extra pressure getting the tyres to seat over the humps can damage the tube. It may not but you cannot see inside the tyre to tell. Land Rover only started to fit tyres without tubes when they fitted new wheels with the humps in the flange.
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I'm running with Avon Rangemasters - 7.50 radials :first
(http://www.series2club.co.uk/gallery/technical/images/Avon_Rangemaster-2.jpg)
There are 2 types of rim construction:
Most (99%) are riveted internally and you leave them alone
Some (1%) MoDs had "split rims" where the 2 halves are joint by nuts and bolts.
A standard wheel VVVV with rivets.
:RHD
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I too run 7.50 x 16" Avon Range Masters but I have a 109" and run them on 5.5" wide rims with tubes. They were the only tyres I could find at the time in that size that looked sensible, I wasn't after big chunky off road tyres that seemed to be the thing 15 odd years ago.
My old series III used to run 205 x 16" remoulds. Think they were made by Semperit tyres. Good value and lasted well but no idea if remoulds are still a thing outside of commercial vehicles?
Craig.
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Wheels with riveted centres must have tubes fitted because it can not be guaranteed there is an air tight seal around the rivets.
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I’m very confused , at one time tyres labelled as 700/750 etc were cross ply and those marked as 205/235 etc were radials but now it seems all can be radial
On my 11a I have 235/85’s and the steering seems heavier than my S1’s with 205/75’s.
Would 750’s have lighter steering than 235’s?
Whilst I understand you should not mix radials and cross ply is it ok to mix 235/85’s and 750’s if both are radial?
I went to 235/85 to increase the gearing. Can I get a narrower radial tyre as tall as 235/85 or 750’s?
Why are tyres labelled as 750 or 235/85 but have the same height and both are radial :stars
I have some Discovery 1 steel wheels which are 7" wide which Land Rover fitted 205/70's as standard but when I got some 235/85's the tyre fitted was not happy and said the rims were to wide for these tyres :shakeinghead
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Radial tyres will be so marked . I run 6.50 R x 16 Michelin tyres on my Land Rover which the R means they are radials . The are also 100 % aspect ratio so are the same diameter as the original cross plys. I don't think one can get tyres greater than 100% aspect ratio . 235/85 has an 85% aspect ratio and is nominally the same dia. , but are a lot wider than 7.50" which are 100% aspect ratio
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Tyre markings are confusing but can be understood with a bit of thought.
Older tyres on Landrovers were 6.00x16, 6.50x16, 7.50x16 etc (7.00x16 and 9.00x16 were also available). These have a 100% aspect ratio as stated above, so the sidewall height is the same measurement as the tread width. So a 9.00x16 tyre has 9" tall sidewalls, *and* a 9" wide tread section. Ditto for the other measurements.
On more modern metric tyres the width is generally greater than the sidewall height.
So to take 235/85R16s as fitted to my 110..
The first figure is the width in mm, so 235mm. The next is the aspect ratio. So here we are told the sidewall height is 85% of the overall width of the tyre, or if you like, 85% of 235mm. So the sidewall would be 199.75mm.
The R designated radial construction, without it, its a crossply. So you can have 7.50X16 (crossply) or 7.50R16 (radial). On older tyres it was often shown as 7.50 - 16.
The last number is always the rim diameter in inches.
Many people do run wider rims on narrow tyres (eg 7.50x16 on 5" rims). They may well physically fit, but in the event of an accident expect insurance assessors etc to start paying attention to such things as this is in contravention of the tyre manufacturers specifications. . 5.5" rims are so cheap to buy there really is no reason not to, they are easily available for only a few quid. Millions of them were produced, just be aware of inset/offset versions as mentioned above. The change was around 1970 IIRC.
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Grover has BFGoodrich All-Terrain T/A KO2 LT; 235/85R16 tires.
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My 7.50 Goodyear G90's are tubeless radials, on Wolf wheels.
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Currently I'm running on Compasal Versant M/T 245/75/R16 on 5.5" rims. They don't get much use, so am curious to see how well they last.
This thread might also be useful if you haven't seen it: https://www.series2club.co.uk/new_forum/index.php/topic,6991.0.html - photos of the above are in there.
- tim
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I’m very confused , at one time tyres labelled as 700/750 etc were cross ply and those marked as 205/235 etc were radials but now it seems all can be radial
On my 11a I have 235/85’s and the steering seems heavier than my S1’s with 205/75’s.
Would 750’s have lighter steering than 235’s?
Whilst I understand you should not mix radials and cross ply is it ok to mix 235/85’s and 750’s if both are radial?
I went to 235/85 to increase the gearing. Can I get a narrower radial tyre as tall as 235/85 or 750’s?
Why are tyres labelled as 750 or 235/85 but have the same height and both are radial :stars
I have some Discovery 1 steel wheels which are 7" wide which Land Rover fitted 205/70's as standard but when I got some 235/85's the tyre fitted was not happy and said the rims were to wide for these tyres :shakeinghead
7.50 radials have been available for a very long time, they will be roughly an inch thinner than 235/85s.
I now run Tonka on "Super All Grip" 7.50 radials from General tyre. Very pleased with them, quiet on the road and good in the mud.
235/85 on the left, 7.50 next, then 6.50 and 6.00 to the right.
Note that various manufacturers version of 7.50 or any other size vary a fair bit....
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Is that a Dunlop RK3 on the right, that brings back memories of my first LR back in 1968
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^^^ Sorry, the picture is quite old and the tyres long gone, a friend had a contact who shipped container-loads of part-worn 4x4 tyres to West Africa.
Thinking about it perhaps we could repeat the exercise, add a 205 next to the 6.50, a 9.00 to keep the Forward Control folk involved ? I'd add a scale of some sort, a yardstick or meter rule ?
It would be a useful half hour at a suitably sized gathering, a collection of spare tyres - perhaps something for the Rally ?
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My 7.50 Goodyear G90's are tubeless radials, on Wolf wheels.
They get a bad press in the rumour mill, lethal according to some - but the MOD fitted thousands of them. I have a set under the Ambulance/camper project.
I believe Goodyear originally didn't recommend them for road use? Personally I mourn for the Michelin XCL pattern, last seen as a remould from Olympic ?
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Can you mix 750 radial and 235/85 radial on a Land Rover or is that a no no ???
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They get a bad press in the rumour mill, lethal according to some - but the MOD fitted thousands of them. I have a set under the Ambulance/camper project.
I believe Goodyear originally didn't recommend them for road use? Personally I mourn for the Michelin XCL pattern, last seen as a remould from Olympic ?
I've used G90's on my Land Rover for years and never experienced any "lethal" moments.
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I had a few lethal moments on a set of bar grips, even worse on wet cold roads :agh
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I now use toyo 225/75/R16 MT tyres, a very very good tyre for me so far with good looks and fits the series look perfectly for me.
I used g90s on my series for years, had zero issues with them, no matter the weather. i think the people who complain about them must be driving with bigger engines or something, even the police land rovers around here have g90s on ???
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Can you mix 750 radial and 235/85 radial on a Land Rover or is that a no no ???
Not on the same axle, automatic MOT fail.
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Not on the same axle, automatic MOT fail.
but OK front/back axle ???
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Deestone Extra Traction, Security, Protector, all the same tread under different names.
Some call them death traps, but I love them. (Plus I don’t drive like a *&%^$.)😁
I’m just off to get these fitted this afternoon.
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Bar grips are a serious white knuckle ride especially in the wet.
Peter
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Deestones can sometimes give a bit of a shimmy on a wet manhole cover too.😂
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Deestones can sometimes give a bit of a shimmy on a wet manhole cover too.😂
I have found that on a few other makes, it seems worse on 235/85 than 205/70 :shakeinghead