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[Worf]

Thanks I will have a look.

Worf Is that chain failure due to oil starvation, or not being heavy duty enough.  Either way if its not an isolated case, due to bad batch or qc it is going to gain bad reputation.

Timing chain gone on a 30000 mile engine is just one of the probs. There are plenty more.
JLR franchised garages are farming out the work to independent specialists  (or just replacing the whole engine)
This guy really know his stuff and it still took him 3 days. Somebody actually got paid for designing that 

Enjoy https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xmidk2JF5jQ

[dartymoor]

Neither, for all the reasons given by others here. JLR just make luxury SUVs that are unreliable and extremely expensive to buy and own. Grenadier made a huge thing about them being made in Britain, then betrayed us. Neither are British cars and neither do much for our economy.

It has made me wonder what I would buy instead, if I wanted a modern Defender-a-like and was rolling in money.

I like the look of the new mini Jeep, especially in Burnt Orange. And I like the Suzuki Jimny, although it seems both rare and very expensive in the UK. I do like boxy cars.
I also quite liked a ride I had in a Skoda Yeti, they seem like quite well designed cars. My father and sister have both bought new Dacia Dusters and like them.

[2286]

I have noticed possibly due to def1 reaching the end of their shelf life (if there is such a point), the shortage of used vehicles and the reluctance in up take in def2 that farmers locally are using rr, rr sport, disco, and reverting back to Japanese pick ups, crew cabs.  This is happening in similar numbers to when the s3 got left behind at the start of the 80's prior to the 90/110 launch.

The difference now is that they dont rust out like they used to and parts availability and prices are not as bad again to the 80's.

Suzuki used to offer a lwb sj, if they were to offer a scaled up jimny in a range of wheelbase, I think as long as prices are keen they could clean up.

The duster again used to be very robust and lr like rather than monocoque car like.

I was about to throw lada niva in to mix but apparently, they cease production 2023.

Re Ingenium it sounds like, they need to blanket retrofit and issue recalls to head off a class action from owners.

[Ian59]

Got to be honest, if I’m in a position to buy a new Grenadier when my current pickup is due for change (in about a year or so) I won’t hesitate.
I went on the website and built one to my spec ticking a LOT of the options boxes and it came out including VAT around £63k. That is only 3 grand more than my pickup was in 2019 and a lot cheaper than an equivalent Defender

[Devon2a]

Timing chain gone on a 30000 mile engine is just one of the probs. There are plenty more.
JLR franchised garages are farming out the work to independent specialists  (or just replacing the whole engine)

So we don't mention the inherent design flaws that mean excessive dilution of engine oil with diesel due to the DPF regeneration cycles being either repeatedly incomplete or just simply excessive for the driving cycles they were doing?
And that reportedly for early service lights coming on JLR were reprogramming the ECU to allow for higher dilution rates of the oil before triggering the light?

Alongside the timing chains there is a big concern with balance shaft bearings wearing soon giving a nice engine speed related whine a bit like a supercharger.

Also some reports of turbos too.

A defiantly we won't mention a certain main dealer who at one point mentioned he had 16 dead ingeniums sat on the workshop floor all in the process of being renewed.

 

IMO a perfect storm of a car manufacturer trying to play the platform powerplant option, in a world of daft regulations blinkered on ever tightening diesel regulations.

JLR have had some bad engine design features (Plastic TD5 head dowls, or misaligned TDI front pulleys or the manufactured not cast early crank timing pulleys that munched belts, or the K series Headgasket saga) But the ingenium is a current dumpster fire that's just getting going.

[Uffddd]

Neither, for all the reasons given by others here. JLR just make luxury SUVs that are unreliable and extremely expensive to buy and own. Grenadier made a huge thing about them being made in Britain, then betrayed us. Neither are British cars and neither do much for our economy.

It has made me wonder what I would buy instead, if I wanted a modern Defender-a-like and was rolling in money.

Hard to really criticise Ineos on changing their minds about where to build the car. If you have two options, one of which is a muddy field and the other is a brand new already built automotive factory begging for use then it’s genuinely a no brainier.

[geoff]

The field was only muddy after they broke ground and the infrastructure started to be laid.

[Bronze Green]

Neither, for all the reasons given by others here. JLR just make luxury SUVs that are unreliable and extremely expensive to buy and own. Grenadier made a huge thing about them being made in Britain, then betrayed us. Neither are British cars and neither do much for our economy.

It has made me wonder what I would buy instead, if I wanted a modern Defender-a-like and was rolling in money.

I like the look of the new mini Jeep, especially in Burnt Orange. And I like the Suzuki Jimny, although it seems both rare and very expensive in the UK. I do like boxy cars.
I also quite liked a ride I had in a Skoda Yeti, they seem like quite well designed cars. My father and sister have both bought new Dacia Dusters and like them.

So without wishing to be argumentative and just an interesting observation, you wouldn’t buy a Grenadier because it’s not British and not built in this Country, however you would be interested in buying  Jeep, Suzuki, Skoda Yeti or Dacia Duster.

Well I can attest that the Skoda Yeti is a fine car, one of the best I have owned , but I wouldn’t touch the 1.2 engine as it’s too underpowered IMO. They are well put together and in the 4 years I owned mine nothing went wrong with it. I can heartily recommend them to you.

[2286]

Has anybody gone down the 'great wall' brand route?

At cattle market this am, isuzu is very much in vogue, some of those merc badged nissans, a sprinkling of long service defs.

[crumbly65]

What concerns me about the Grenadier is what is the Main Dealer network going to be like. Even the best vehicle needs a back-up organisation for spares, repairs and servicing. Particularly so if they are going to be driven on trans-European and other trans-continental trips.

Even the most reliable vehicle, and most careful driver, can sustain damage in relatively minor collisions for example. The vehicle might need major servicing on prolonged trips, what is the position on spares back-up, what technician training is happening, what is the supporting infrastructure for the Grenadier?

[diffwhine]

A dealer network has been established and where there is limited coverage, there will be a head office support function. Full spares backup and technical training is ongoing at the moment.

The bottom line is that a new car manufacturer launching a new product has only one shot at getting it right. I haven't been sitting about twiddling my thumbs for the past 4 years  , we have all been pulling together to create a sound and robust support network.

I'm proud of what has been achieved and there is still a lot to do, but it will be fine.

[Exile]

Best of luck to the Gren.

I hope it does well.

(Speaking as one of the "abandoned by JLR").

[crumbly65]

Best of luck to the Gren.

I hope it does well.

(Speaking as one of the "abandoned by JLR").

^^^ Ditto.  I do like the look of the Grenadier, I hope it can provide a proper working vehicle for the future.....

[2286]

A dealer network has been established and where there is limited coverage, there will be a head office support function. Full spares backup and technical training is ongoing at the moment.

The bottom line is that a new car manufacturer launching a new product has only one shot at getting it right. I haven't been sitting about twiddling my thumbs for the past 4 years  , we have all been pulling together to create a sound and robust support network.

I'm proud of what has been achieved and there is still a lot to do, but it will be fine.

The map looked reasonably populated with pin drops when I looked.  With the bmw bits, unless they are gren specific or older parts they should be available from bmw agent if an ineos dealer is not to hand, or is that a warranty invalidator?

I had a word with a materials planner, and the machines he presides over do not use carrarro axles and he has never heard of them.  He has worked for JCB for 31years and says their axles are made by jcb transmissions wrexham.

The one shot at getting it right is true, as folks even if they are rooting for a new product success will only give it so long or stick with it so far.

My reservation other than cost is, INEOS have only existed since 1998, and have multi faceted business.

If the numbers dont stack up will the project be halted.

Further reading on ineos show mercedes involvement so why plump for bmw engine?

[Marky Harvey]

Got to be honest, if I’m in a position to buy a new Grenadier when my current pickup is due for change (in about a year or so) I won’t hesitate.
I went on the website and built one to my spec ticking a LOT of the options boxes and it came out including VAT around £63k. That is only 3 grand more than my pickup was in 2019 and a lot cheaper than an equivalent Defender

Was your pickup gold plated?