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[Larry S.]

Looking again at what photos you have posted suggests that your vehicle has a similar spec to mine and a similar background. It looks like an original 88" Station Wagon. Those in themselves were relatively rare seeing as they were subject to high car tax. You needed deep pockets to buy one! It does look quite intact and original.

As Larry says, the frame (aka chassis on this side of the pond) is the biggest area to check along with the bulkhead below the windscreen along with it's footwells and the A pillars. These are the main structural and most expensive parts to deal with. As per previous posts on this, an understanding of your personal capabilities always helps. If you are a competent person with mechanics and can follow a manual, then it would be a really satisfying and fun DIY job. If you have to pay somebody else to do the build, it will not be cheap an your are unlikely to get your money back now that the values of Series 2 and 2A LRs are starting to fall back to more realistic values. I would suggest, is that if your intention is to do it up to sell it and profit based on figures currently being bandied about, you will probably find that is not feasible.

I think you mean genocache...   

[Larry S.]

all 88" station wagons have the rope hooks, only 109 station wagons had them deleted

and the tailboard latches arent 100% everytime, easy to convert, like my station wagon had, converted while in use by the GPO to use a catflap and tailgate, as an original station wagon.

same for the rope hook on the rear cappings, I'll post a photo of a factory station wagon with those exact things. the station wagon in the photo is near brand new to the GPO, 1961 period

also I don't think 88" station wagons had their own chassis numbers until later in life, maybe even into the series 3 period.

Really like that fold down rear step.  I've tried to find one, with no luck though, but I'm considering the one like on the rig in question.

In the 1st of your pics - any idea what the table like device is?

[GHOBHW]

Really like that fold down rear step.  I've tried to find one, with no luck though, but I'm considering the one like on the rig in question.

In the 1st of your pics - any idea what the table like device is?

the step and table were made by the GPO workshops and put into certain station wagons. I own one of the few GPO station wagons that had a drop down table like that, that still even survives, it moved up and down on the bars in the middle and folded up into the roof area when not in use. really nifty thing. used for maps and plans when at work etc

image is of one in its folded position. also note these station wagons were all fitted with bench seats, instead of the normal 4 seats in the rear, also made by the GPO workshops, so these all came in black.

I think I have the actual plans for the rear step, I'll try find it and send you the link to it if you wish, has all the dimensions etc to make one from what I remember.

[TimV]

There is an active South Wales group in the club. Are you a member? Contact details for the rep are in your B2L (advantage of being in the club).

It may be possible to arrange a workshop meet - just been to one today in the Bristol area, assessing the work to be done.

[Larry S.]

the step and table were made by the GPO workshops and put into certain station wagons. I own one of the few GPO station wagons that had a drop down table like that, that still even survives, it moved up and down on the bars in the middle and folded up into the roof area when not in use. really nifty thing. used for maps and plans when at work etc

image is of one in its folded position. also note these station wagons were all fitted with bench seats, instead of the normal 4 seats in the rear, also made by the GPO workshops, so these all came in black.

I think I have the actual plans for the rear step, I'll try find it and send you the link to it if you wish, has all the dimensions etc to make one from what I remember.

The rear step isn't the one in the parts catalog?  Wouldn't mind seeing the plans - if possible.

[diffwhine]

I think you mean genocache...   

So I did...! Sorry!

[Larry S.]

So I did...! Sorry!

No worries... I wish I could lay claim to it though!!!  He's definitely a wealth of info.   

[trickysax]

Thank you all so much for the expertise and sharing your knowledge. My wife would love to get it running eventually, and I would love to learn and get involved in DIY on this as a long-term project. I've got 2 boys (9 and 7) and I'd love to use this as a chance for them to learn some basic mechanical skills too, so that's the initial thoughs if this is a viable project. I am not especially gifted in mechanics but have a decent grasp of basics and I am a fast learner. I work as a primary school teacher so I have to pick new skills up quickly and am very keen to get hands on with this.

I'll give the whole vehicle a clean and tidy up then post some more photos to see your thoughts. To those discussing the rear seats, they are the side-facing bench seats and look like they are hardly used.

One thing I did notice today is that the chassis (frame) underneath seems to be in good condition and has been painted red which, I presume, was as protection. I'll try and get come more photos of the underside as well.

Thank you again for all the comments. It is great to know there are so many of you on here with so much knowledge.

[w3526602]

Hi,

My thoughts are about what end result you are looking for?  Back to original? Updated? Just enough to keep it running and roadworthy?

I'm not the person to advice, being a Philistine, with little interest in producing an end result to comply with somebody else's ambitions.

My failed ambition would be to replace everything that can,  or will rot, so the worse state of  the project base, the better. Why pay for the filler, when the holes are free?

But by the time you have bought a new chassis, bulkhead, radiator panel, steering swivels, TREs, brake drums, springs and shockers, etc, you will probably have reached the 5 figure point where you would be silly not to keep spending.

You will have noticed that I have not mentioned the engine and gearbox. That's because I personally would want to go electric. I think I have found a suitable 40hp electric motor, at about £5,000, but have no idea what the batteries would cost. (I'm still investigating).

Could I afford it all? Probably. But could I justify the cost? Almost certainly not! Maybe a battery powered Citroen 2CV may be viable, for my very limited , forecasted, weekly mileage.

Barbara is totally bed bound now, but I suspect that may be the fault of Social Services, who stopped trying, when Barbara was terrified by hanging from a chrome plated engine crane, while the LA care team shook it violently, trying to break the grip of the deep pile carpet on the tiny castors. We now have a team of private carers, who have expressed their enjoyment of dealing with us. I am now part of the care system ... neither of my knees will bend as far as 90*, and getting worse. Their Head Honcho chastised me when she arrived, and caught me (not climbing, but dragging myself) up a ladder. Accademic now. Our builder is currently replacing the last floor (study) in the bungalow with parquet flooring, which the crane just glides over . We will then try again.

Our savings (and collateral) will then be used to link the bungalow with the detached brick built garage, and split the garage into two halves .... all singing, all dancing, 8ft by 9ft bathroom, and a similar sized man-cave opening onto the rear garden. That should increase our collateral sufficiently for us to afford to build a brick built garage in the "secret garden". 12 metres by 5 metres, but reducing to 2.5 metres. But by that time, I suspect I will be way too old.

Ooops! Gone OT again, so frantically ad-libbing .... be careful that you don't start a job that you will be unlikely to finish ... and ... can anybody suggest how the professionals on TV's program about rescuing abandoned classic car restorations. (We both can only think of DIY SOS, but that is the same sort of thing for disabled people's houses ... just as interesting). How do the car rescue people deal with gunge (wet), and grot (dry) on engines, gearboxes, and axles? The hours of scraping, and clogging wire brushes can be soul destroying.

602

[Peter Holden]

Just checked in Glass' checkbook,  88 regular and station wagon share the number range.  109 regulars and station wagons each had their own number ranges.

Peter

[Sunny Jim]

Looking at the photographs, the base vehicle seems to be mostly untrimmed in the cab, with the different colour roof probably from a scrapped Station Wagon as a partial upgrade to a standard vehicle, with some of the interior parts transferred? Is there evidence of interior door trimming etc in the cab, even if these are now missing?

This kind of thing is not uncommon, and does not detract from the worth of restoring the vehicle. Mine was stated as a hard top originally, and had the necessary holes drilled out, but came as a soft top. It had traces of bottle green paint on the bars that matched a previous colour scheme on the body, so must have been changed a long time ago. If yours is done as a family project, then the intrinsic monetary value becomes unimportant! It also would mean that you wouldn't have to keep the current configuration, nor restore the station wagon features. You could then sell on the parts if you wished.

These things can be a money pit, even if you can do a lot of the work yourself, but I started out nearly 45 years ago as a 16 year old who could barely change a spark plug.

A good sound chassis and bulkhead would make it a great project, although you will rapidly have to learn techniques for getting rusty fixings apart if it has been stood for a long time!

The upside is that parts are easily available, but you do need to avoid really cheap ones for critical areas, often suppliers offer 'pattern' (really cheap), Original Equipment Manufacturer (OEM, original quality but cheaper) or 'Genuine' (should be Rover, British Leyland, Unipart or Land Rover branded, depending on the age of the stock).

Sunny Jim

[Ratty2A]

Ok. So thought I'd chip in with my 2p's worth.

Firstly, you've inherited a nice old Land Rover - welcome to the club!

From glancing at the photos, I think I'm looking at a vehicle that someone has loved and parked-up, rather than one that has been neglected. The fact that someone has taken the time to lay on their back to paint the chassis shows this - it'll need doing again and with something a bit more long lasting (Corroless paints are ideal here). Assuming all the docs and numbers check out, I'd think it would make a fantastic project for yourself and your family to work on.

Yes - it does look (to me at least, but note that some of your earlier replies are from some real forum pros on originality) that its a normal 88" hard-top that has been fitted with the majority of bits from a Station Wagon. Absolutely nothing wrong with that.

Next - don't worry about your ability or your history with older cars. You'll learn and a vehicle like this is the ideal thing to learn upon. Its nuts and bolts and logical assembly and between youtube and this forum you'll never struggle to get tips and advice.

I'd suggest thinking very carefully before painting any part of the aluminium bodywork panels. If you want to do that, do it later once your skills and your knowledge of the brand and the paint processes have grown - it doesn't add anything to the drivability of the vehicle, nor its reliability. You mention that you don't want to make it worse - about the only way you could reduce its desirability (should you chose to sell) or its appeal in LR circles is to add a load of cheap paint. Its very very easy to do a mediocre paint job on an old Series Land Rover and yet its quite hard to get one done that will still look good in a few years. Better to concentrate on getting it mechanically reliable and structurally sound and to wear its old faded, mismatched paint with pride in the meantime.

If it needs anything more than a quick service and a small bit of work to make it roadworthy then I would decide if you have the space to take the vehicle down to a rolling chassis - this means removing the majority of the body panels leaving the chassis sitting on its axles, with the gearbox/engine/steering/bulkhead/engine in place. It really doesn't take much skill to do this - just a bit of care and organisation with fixings - allow a couple of days to take it off and a couple to put it back on the first time - its mostly things you can do single handedly except for the tub where you'll need a second set of hands. The forum can supply you with a shopping list of all the fasteners you'll need to put it back together (you'll find that many of the old fasteners will shear off as you remove them). Once at this level you'll have full access to have any welding done on the chassis/bulkhead/radiator panel as well as access to neatly paint these bits up. It also means you'll have full access to look at the mechanicals and get them tidy. After that you can pop the old bodywork back on and know that there are no hidden issues. You'll need a driveway or garage and enough space to store the removed bits (like a shed). This sounds major and scary, but it really isn't and makes working on the vehicle much easier - especially if you're learning. This doesn't mean you'll be committing to a full restoration, simply giving yourself good access.

If you don't have the space, then everything can still be done - it just means you'll be lying underneath it and won't have great access - which makes it harder to understand what you're looking at while you're learning.

But as the other posters above have said: step 1, join the club. Step 2, pop the kettle on and invite some members to come by and they'll happily assess the vehicle with you and help work up a to do list. You can do all of this from behind a keyboard, but the ladies and gents on this forum and in the club are just lovely and you won't be short of volunteers to pop round for a chat, some advice and a bit of reassurance. Chances are that for the odd job that would take more practice than you have time to do that someone could help you physically do the work (like welding and maybe some electrical gremlins). Just don't try to rush it.

For a reading list - get a paper copy of the Series IIA parts catalogue off ebay (or join the club and there are PDF copies on the members section - I personally prefer my paper books as I can annotate them). These are exploded diagrams of every part of the car with a part number for buying replacements and to me is a more useful source of info than a workshop manual which is more text based. Get a workshop manual too (not Haynes).

[diffwhine]

Well put Ratty2A. I think you have summed it up perfectly!

[Larry S.]

Ok. So thought I'd chip in with my 2p's worth.

Firstly, you've inherited a nice old Land Rover - welcome to the club!

From glancing at the photos, I think I'm looking at a vehicle that someone has loved and parked-up, rather than one that has been neglected. The fact that someone has taken the time to lay on their back to paint the chassis shows this - it'll need doing again and with something a bit more long lasting (Corroless paints are ideal here). Assuming all the docs and numbers check out, I'd think it would make a fantastic project for yourself and your family to work on.

Yes - it does look (to me at least, but note that some of your earlier replies are from some real forum pros on originality) that its a normal 88" hard-top that has been fitted with the majority of bits from a Station Wagon. Absolutely nothing wrong with that.

Next - don't worry about your ability or your history with older cars. You'll learn and a vehicle like this is the ideal thing to learn upon. Its nuts and bolts and logical assembly and between youtube and this forum you'll never struggle to get tips and advice.

I'd suggest thinking very carefully before painting any part of the aluminium bodywork panels. If you want to do that, do it later once your skills and your knowledge of the brand and the paint processes have grown - it doesn't add anything to the drivability of the vehicle, nor its reliability. You mention that you don't want to make it worse - about the only way you could reduce its desirability (should you chose to sell) or its appeal in LR circles is to add a load of cheap paint. Its very very easy to do a mediocre paint job on an old Series Land Rover and yet its quite hard to get one done that will still look good in a few years. Better to concentrate on getting it mechanically reliable and structurally sound and to wear its old faded, mismatched paint with pride in the meantime.

If it needs anything more than a quick service and a small bit of work to make it roadworthy then I would decide if you have the space to take the vehicle down to a rolling chassis - this means removing the majority of the body panels leaving the chassis sitting on its axles, with the gearbox/engine/steering/bulkhead/engine in place. It really doesn't take much skill to do this - just a bit of care and organisation with fixings - allow a couple of days to take it off and a couple to put it back on the first time - its mostly things you can do single handedly except for the tub where you'll need a second set of hands. The forum can supply you with a shopping list of all the fasteners you'll need to put it back together (you'll find that many of the old fasteners will shear off as you remove them). Once at this level you'll have full access to have any welding done on the chassis/bulkhead/radiator panel as well as access to neatly paint these bits up. It also means you'll have full access to look at the mechanicals and get them tidy. After that you can pop the old bodywork back on and know that there are no hidden issues. You'll need a driveway or garage and enough space to store the removed bits (like a shed). This sounds major and scary, but it really isn't and makes working on the vehicle much easier - especially if you're learning. This doesn't mean you'll be committing to a full restoration, simply giving yourself good access.

If you don't have the space, then everything can still be done - it just means you'll be lying underneath it and won't have great access - which makes it harder to understand what you're looking at while you're learning.

But as the other posters above have said: step 1, join the club. Step 2, pop the kettle on and invite some members to come by and they'll happily assess the vehicle with you and help work up a to do list. You can do all of this from behind a keyboard, but the ladies and gents on this forum and in the club are just lovely and you won't be short of volunteers to pop round for a chat, some advice and a bit of reassurance. Chances are that for the odd job that would take more practice than you have time to do that someone could help you physically do the work (like welding and maybe some electrical gremlins). Just don't try to rush it.

For a reading list - get a paper copy of the Series IIA parts catalogue off ebay (or join the club and there are PDF copies on the members section - I personally prefer my paper books as I can annotate them). These are exploded diagrams of every part of the car with a part number for buying replacements and to me is a more useful source of info than a workshop manual which is more text based. Get a workshop manual too (not Haynes).

Everything that Ratty2A has said above is wise advice.    Take advantage of all the help offered by Club members as well as all of the information available on here (the Workshop Wisdom area as well as as the Club website).  The pdf versions of are good to have, but the books are highly recommended, I have a set for home use and a binder and laminated version for shop use.  The 1964/1965 parts book as been very beneficial to me, better than the later version that came with mine - IMHO - it is available as a pdf.  The older versions of the shop manual are also better IMHO.  Life would of been easier if I would of sought those out instead of just relying on the newer version that came with mine.  I would also suggest getting a copy of the optional equipment catalog as well, they can be found in pdf format as well.

Most importantly -

Next - don't worry about your ability or your history with older cars. You'll learn and a vehicle like this is the ideal thing to learn upon. Its nuts and bolts and logical assembly and between youtube and this forum you'll never struggle to get tips and advice.

Keep this in mind while working on your rig.  When I first got Grover I knew very, very little about mechanics.  About all I knew how to do was put gas and oil in a vehicle as well as change the air filter, change to oil and replace spark-plugs.  Other than that I was all thumbs.  Thanks to the help of people like those here, I now know a bit more and have come a long way.  It took me years to get Grover to the point he is now, and there's still more to do.  I was very anxious to get it done ASAP, but I knew my limits and knew I needed to take the time to learn.

 

Larry