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Author Topic: Ineos Grenadier  (Read 4387 times)

RobS

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Re: Ineos Grenadier
« Reply #45 on: June 02, 2023, 12:30:45 PM »

It's all about the emission quota, Suzuki are still in the past when it comes to electric vehicles so the engine in the Jimny cannot get through our regs as they have nothing to off-set it's emissions against. To bring them in they have to pay a significant increase in duty so that's why they were restricted or even they could have stopped now.
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crumbly65

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Re: Ineos Grenadier
« Reply #46 on: June 02, 2023, 02:22:40 PM »

This looks car park friendly and quite fun for less than half the price:

SWMBO and I test drove one of those when they first arrived.  It was an SZ5 ( Suzuki's "top spec") and was enormous fun.  Priced at around £15,000 up to £18,000 at the time if I remember, but I think that was for one with an auto box.

Now, our Suzuki dealer has about 4 on the forecourt which are the Light Commercial Vehicle (LCV) variant.  Pretty basic spec, no autobox option, and about as roomy as a Ford Fiesta van.  They are all priced at around £27,000 - £28,000.  :thud

Still fun to knock about in, good off road, and SWMBO thinks they're really cute, but in truth they are just a toy.  At £12,000 to £15,000 new they'd be better value as a toy - if you've the cash burning through your pocket......
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Mycroft

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Re: Ineos Grenadier
« Reply #47 on: June 02, 2023, 02:47:22 PM »

Somewhat randomly, I just passed my first one ever on the road. It was exactly the same colour as the one I uploaded up-thread. But somehow not quite as impressive in the flesh - looked very dinky and a bit silly frankly! As you say, for low teens, it's probably quite fun (and I saw a video with Jonny Smith getting stuck in a lake in one that confirmed this), but over £25k?! Er, maybe not!
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diffwhine

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Re: Ineos Grenadier
« Reply #48 on: June 02, 2023, 04:17:24 PM »

The current Jimney is a cracking little vehicle, but as said, no longer available here. I'm running 4 on a trial with a wildlife charity in East Africa to replace the aging Defenders. They are performing admirably. So far the only complaint is lack of range due to the small fuel tank and nowhere to safely stow jerry cans.
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Mycroft

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Re: Ineos Grenadier
« Reply #49 on: June 02, 2023, 05:29:51 PM »

The current Jimney is a cracking little vehicle, but as said, no longer available here. I'm running 4 on a trial with a wildlife charity in East Africa to replace the aging Defenders. They are performing admirably. So far the only complaint is lack of range due to the small fuel tank and nowhere to safely stow jerry cans.

Fascinating as ever Mark.

Are you keeping tabs on customer feedback on the Grenadier? So far it seems to be the non-centring steering, the sticking out left footwell and lack of lumbar support I've heard of. Someone in the owner group had a bad experience with the external metalwork in a car wash, but that might be specific to one or two car washes and their use of Traffic Film Remover. It's fascinating seeing a brand new, yet somehow familiar vehicle pass into users hands.
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diffwhine

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Re: Ineos Grenadier
« Reply #50 on: June 02, 2023, 05:43:52 PM »

If I pick up a comment that is not about where its built or how it looks which I think might help, I will feed it back to one of the Product Team - yes. I did that yesterday when my wife commented about the lack of B Pillar seat belt height adjustment on the front seats. All the items you note James, are well documented and known about from several reviews and our own feedback having in my case driven the best part of 20,000km so far in them. I reckon probably 3/4 of that has been off road as well.

Its not perfect. No vehicle is as we all know. Some issues are limited by design. Your footwell protrusion on RHD vehicles being a case in point. BMW supply the engine with Diesel Particulate Filter  in one place only and to reengineer that would not be cost effective. As the engine needs to be high and as far back as possible to provide ground clearance and impact protection, there isn't much that can be done about it. I just get used to it, but I can see some longer people than the short stumpy git that is me might find it less comfortable.

One thing I do fundamentally disagree with is any suggestion that the seats are uncomfortable. They are by far the most comfortable seats I've ever had in an off road vehicle. I have a very bad back and use lumbar support regularly on both our Range Rover and our Discovery. We did not need any additional lumbar support on a 150 mile drive yesterday.
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Mycroft

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Re: Ineos Grenadier
« Reply #51 on: June 02, 2023, 05:54:27 PM »

Cheers Mark, I didn't mean my comments as criticism by the way - I just find it interesting and am in utter awe at a company going from chemical production to producing a brand new car fit for 2023 from scratch.

I'm sure you're right re the seats. I find both my Landies more comfortable than my somewhat smart (if ageing) Beemer and only need an aftermarket lumbar support thingy in the latter. As for the footwell, I had that issue with a 5 Series estate and it was a bit of a pain as I have sciatica in my left leg. At first it bothered me so much, I considered removing at least the protective plastic to give me a few millimetres more space, but of course, in time I got used to it.

I wish we had something between the Jimny and the Grenadier personally - a £35-40k truck that looked like a brick but wasn't quite so top spec. And I wish the Grenadier well. It's a great thing to be trying and it's impossible not to be impressed by the overwhelmingly positive customer feedback in the owners' groups.
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RobS

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Re: Ineos Grenadier
« Reply #52 on: June 02, 2023, 06:17:33 PM »

I'd love it's bigger brother - the G Wagon but that's well out of my price range. :tiphat :-X :-X
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Peter Holden

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Re: Ineos Grenadier
« Reply #53 on: June 02, 2023, 06:20:18 PM »

My back play up from time to time but driving the Series is never a problem and the most comfortable place to sit when it starts is the drivers seat of an M49/59 Berlingo

Peter
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Re: Ineos Grenadier
« Reply #54 on: June 03, 2023, 10:43:29 AM »

This looks car park friendly and quite fun for less than half the price:

So to be clear this is no longer available new.  I thought it was a much improved version of the one that went before and ceased in the uk market.

DW I have just had a lightbulb, re the grenadier, maybe it could be sold as a very basic ckd like a Caterham kit, most who express an interest are handy with the spanners.

Peter one of the most back friendly rides, if a little low to get in and out of, I have found to be a saab 900 before vauxhall took them over.  Ditto jag xj pre ford.
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Worf

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Re: Ineos Grenadier
« Reply #55 on: June 03, 2023, 11:31:38 AM »

So to be clear this is no longer available new.  I thought it was a much improved version of the one that went before and ceased in the uk market.

DW I have just had a lightbulb, re the grenadier, maybe it could be sold as a very basic ckd like a Caterham kit, most who express an interest are handy with the spanners.

Peter one of the most back friendly rides, if a little low to get in and out of, I have found to be a saab 900 before vauxhall took them over.  Ditto jag xj pre ford.

Just the 2 seat commercial Jimny is available, but probably not for long. Test drove one when they  first appeared. Look the part but pretty cramped and noisy on a long run. Could really have done with an extra gear, but not really built to be thrashed along a motorway.
This kit was also available https://www.autoexpress.co.uk/suzuki/jimny/105254/new-body-kit-turns-suzuki-jimny-into-a-mini-land-rover-defender
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Re: Ineos Grenadier
« Reply #56 on: June 04, 2023, 05:57:44 AM »

There were two key points that attracted me to the Grenadier when it was first announced;

1. Affordable. (Do I recall a figure of £30k being touted? It's clear the current vehicle has suffered immense feature creep)

2. Made in Britain. (Everyone will have their own view on this, but it is important to me, especially when it's been marketed so.)

I feel misled, and what I saw in person didnt inspire me any more than the new Defender. Expensive things for rich people - the exact opposite of what, for me, a Land Rover was.
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diffwhine

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Re: Ineos Grenadier
« Reply #57 on: June 04, 2023, 09:10:21 AM »

While I agree with the sentiments, I think that we have to take into account multiple factors in having a significantly more expensive vehicle than was probably touted about (by the media I might add - not INEOS). In my time it has always been assumed to be in the £45,000 - to £60,000 area, so allowing for Brexit, rampant inflation, Covid 19 delays, restrictions and so on, such mission creep is understandable. A good quality 1 tonne pickup will retails at over £40,000 + VAT these days. My view is that as a long term investment, its one of the best options on the market, because it really is built to last and therefore a worthy successor to L319 Defender and our own earlier favourites. Were it built in the UK with all the investment that would have required, I dare say it would have been even more expensive. As it is, its built in one of the most modern automotive factories in Europe, by experienced workers who know how to build to the standards laid down by other manufacturers - in this case Mercedes Benz and the Smart cars. I'm sorry, but who in their right might would turn down the opportunity to effectively just take over such an existing operation rather than build from scratch?

A reminder that both the current Defender and the Discovery 5 are both built in Slovakia, not the UK, so made in Britain arguments, while important to a few Brits, is meaningless to the rest of the planet with far bigger priorities than where it is built. Every vehicle these days is not really built any more anyway. They are assembled from a large pile of components coming from different suppliers all over the world. This is simple economics, not sentiment - the best quality at the best possible price. If we as a country cannot meet that requirement, then its our loss, but arguably no fault of any motor manufacturer. A positive, is that apart from having being designed here, a lot of the components that make up the Grenadier are made here. I note that some of the major items supposedly made elsewhere, are made from components from British suppliers. One of the big winners is based in Northern Ireland.

And of course - yes I am biased, but after putting up with 30 + years of quality problems with Land Rovers built in the UK at ludicrously high prices, I can be. I still do a lot of work with INEOS and have a great deal of respect for the company and what they are working to achieve. The amount of interest I'm hearing from global fleet users, tells me that in essence, Sir Jim Ratcliffe had the right idea and its on the right track.

Still love my old Land Rovers though (and so does Sir Jim Ratcliffe!).
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Mycroft

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Re: Ineos Grenadier
« Reply #58 on: June 04, 2023, 12:55:26 PM »

I'm probably equally conflicted - I partly grew up in Bridgend, which was where the Grenadier was going to be built before the French Smart factory option appeared. I witnessed the huge impact on the town and its environs when the original Ford and Sony plants were built in the 80s - transforming a dying backwater that wouldn't have looked out of place in a Hovis ad and bringing quality jobs and confidence, which rippled outwards into the wider economy.

I think to some extent, Ineos faces the same own goal issues that plagued the Jaguar XJ220. In particular, people (like me) really bought into all the early PR noises - a no-frills, go anywhere, British built Defender replacement, with all that car's weaknesses (eg lack of steel galvanising) addressed and priced between £30-45k (depending on engine and spec). That proposition ticked a hell of a lot of boxes and I made a mental note that one day I would own one. Famously, when the XJ220 was finally launched, it didn't have half of the show car's features - in particular the 4 wheel driven V12 was now a 2 wheel drive, turbocharged V6 that couldn't reach the speed boasted about in the car's name. And the price had skyrocketed far beyond the original target customer base's wallets.

It may well be that by ultimately producing a car that's in a similar price bracket to the new Defender (albeit without the looks - how big is that duck bill of a front bumper?!) from an existing car factory, Ineos is able to maximise its profit per truck, thereby guaranteeing the operation's long term future. And if that's the case, good luck to them. I hope they're so profitable that one day they are able to justify producing a cheaper truck with fewer frills and then people like me can realistically aspire to own. Maybe like the one that got us all interested when the idea was first announced.
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Bronze Green

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Re: Ineos Grenadier
« Reply #59 on: June 06, 2023, 09:51:03 AM »

If I pick up a comment that is not about where its built or how it looks which I think might help, I will feed it back to one of the Product Team - yes. I did that yesterday when my wife commented about the lack of B Pillar seat belt height adjustment on the front seats. All the items you note Gareth, are well documented and known about from several reviews and our own feedback having in my case driven the best part of 20,000km so far in them. I reckon probably 3/4 of that has been off road as well.

Its not perfect. No vehicle is as we all know. Some issues are limited by design. Your footwell protrusion on RHD vehicles being a case in point. BMW supply the engine with Diesel Particulate Filter  in one place only and to reengineer that would not be cost effective. As the engine needs to be high and as far back as possible to provide ground clearance and impact protection, there isn't much that can be done about it. I just get used to it, but I can see some longer people than the short stumpy git that is me might find it less comfortable.

One thing I do fundamentally disagree with is any suggestion that the seats are uncomfortable. They are by far the most comfortable seats I've ever had in an off road vehicle. I have a very bad back and use lumbar support regularly on both our Range Rover and our Discovery. We did not need any additional lumbar support on a 150 mile drive yesterday.

I read occasionally that the lack of self centering steering is putting some people off, apologies if it has already been mentioned here. I haven’t driven one myself but would like to hear your comments on this. I assume it’s something you would get used to fairly quickly? I’m very tempted after inspecting one at the dealers but parking in the average car park with such a big vehicle and with apparently a large turning circle might also be putting people off, again look forward to your comments.
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