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Author Topic: Overland but North South  (Read 2949 times)

w3526602

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Overland but North South
« on: April 25, 2021, 10:09:14 PM »

Hi,

I just realised that we have two members, Nanug, (Alaska) and Mr Ed (Chile), within easy driving distance of each other.  :whistle  Only a canal in the way.
17,000 miles from Alaska to Argentina.

Check out DARIEN GAP on Page 88 of "Workhorse" (or index) or Google "LAND ROVER DARIEN GAP". 17,000 miles from Alaska to Argentina.

I assume that we have "Workhorse" in the Club library?

602
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Larry S.

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Re: Overland but North South
« Reply #1 on: April 25, 2021, 11:00:11 PM »

Not exactly the same distance, but... 

Check out '12,000 Miles by Land Rover: From Brazil to Canada' by Mary Orr.  A recent acquisition to my vintage Land Rover book collection.

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g6anz

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Re: Overland but North South
« Reply #2 on: April 26, 2021, 09:18:55 AM »

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Craig T

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Re: Overland but North South
« Reply #3 on: April 26, 2021, 09:31:56 AM »

Always thought it is a shame the 1972 Trans-Americas expedition has become known by many as the Darien Gap expedition. The poor guys who drove those vehicles all the way from Alaska, nearly destroyed one of them on the way, then drove the last bit right down to Argentina have had their journey turned into a 200 mile trip through a jungle. They should be remembered for the full trip on the whole of the Pan-American highway.

The book by Russel Braddon on the expedition is pretty good but I have just read the new book by John Carroll which clears up some of the missing bits and confusion in the Braddon book.

I have never seen the "12,000 miles by Land Rover book" Had a look online and it seems to be more commonly available (not cheaply) in the US so assume it is a US printed book?

Craig.
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Larry S.

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Re: Overland but North South
« Reply #4 on: April 26, 2021, 05:10:53 PM »

Always thought it is a shame the 1972 Trans-Americas expedition has become known by many as the Darien Gap expedition. The poor guys who drove those vehicles all the way from Alaska, nearly destroyed one of them on the way, then drove the last bit right down to Argentina have had their journey turned into a 200 mile trip through a jungle. They should be remembered for the full trip on the whole of the Pan-American highway.

Absolutely correct!!  I do have to admit though... I'm not a huge fan of the RR expedition, yet they should be noted for more than that!! 

I'm much more interested in the 1960 "Cambridge Trans-American Expedition".  It was a single Rover - a 109, LH drive, hardtop.  I've attached a copy of the original invoice. 

The Rover was shipped to Argentina and the expedition went from Tierra del Fuego, at the southern tip, up the Pan-American Highway heading for the Arctic Circle.  They made it to Fairbanks Alaska, and almost made it to their final destination.  However, just 500 miles from the Arctic, the Rover became stranded due to severe weather and a total lack of roads or tracks to drive on.

They ended up selling the Rover in order to travel back to the UK.  I don't remember when the project started but at some point it was purchased by an enthusiast and then sometime in the early 2010s a plan was hatched to refurbish the thing and complete those last 500 miles.  The new owner, and team, were able to get 3 of the original 4 members of the 1960 expedition so that they could be part of it.

To my knowledge there has been no book written about the original journey, at least none that I'm aware of, and that's a shame. 

Another similar expedition is "The Trans-Darien Expedition" in 1959.  They chose the 88 SWB because it was "the only vehicle rugged and light enough to be able to manage  such expedition".  This one started in Toronto Canada and headed south.  The pictures of their crossing are stunning IMHO.  Again, I'm not aware of a book about this one either.

The book by Russel Braddon on the expedition is pretty good but I have just read the new book by John Carroll which clears up some of the missing bits and confusion in the Braddon book.

Talk about freaky instances... you mention Russell Braddon and I just started reading his book 'The Naked Island' this past weekend!!!

Something I find rather odd/curious is the cover of Braddon's book about the expedition.  It was my understanding that his book documented two Range Rovers making the trip - why is there a Series on the cover?  Did a Series go with them?

I have never seen the "12,000 miles by Land Rover book" Had a look online and it seems to be more commonly available (not cheaply) in the US so assume it is a US printed book?

Yes, the "12,000 miles" book is a US printed book - Zondervan Pub. House out of Grand Rapids, Michigan.  What's odd about this is that the publisher is one of THE biggest publishers of Bibles and other relevant works!  The family in the book appear to be lay missionaries/ministers, yet the book isn't a religious one - it's about the trip in a Rover!!

Uhmm... if you think this book is expensive (I paid $24) you should take a look at Braddon's Darien Gap book!!  The cheapest I've found is $262.71!!!

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Larry S.

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Re: Overland but North South
« Reply #5 on: April 26, 2021, 05:12:51 PM »

Have a read here:
https://sites.google.com/site/rangeroverclassica/Home/range-rover-darien-gap

Malcolm

Go to towards the bottom and you can read about the 1959 "Trans-Darien Expedition".
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22900013A

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Re: Overland but North South
« Reply #6 on: April 26, 2021, 08:30:28 PM »

Something I find rather odd/curious is the cover of Braddon's book about the expedition.  It was my understanding that his book documented two Range Rovers making the trip - why is there a Series on the cover?  Did a Series go with them?

Yep, a IIA 88" was used as a pathfinder vehicle. Rolled away to be scrapped at the end.
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Larry S.

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Re: Overland but North South
« Reply #7 on: April 26, 2021, 09:00:52 PM »

Yep, a IIA 88" was used as a pathfinder vehicle. Rolled away to be scrapped at the end.

That sucks...  still, one would think they would've used a RR on the front since it was kinda of intended as a publicity stunt - at least that's what I thought.  Maybe they used the Series on the front thinking it would draw more attention.
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Craig T

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Re: Overland but North South
« Reply #8 on: April 27, 2021, 10:12:33 AM »

As mentioned a late IIA was purchased locally, air lifted into the expedition and made most of the journey as their "Path finder" vehicle.

Story in the John Carroll book is that the Range Rovers were having major mechanical problems in the jungle, mainly with differentials. The British Army that was running the expedition decided to fit oversize swamp / flotation tyres to the Range Rovers for the Darien section. Land Rover advised against it but the Army insisted so Land Rover supplied the Range Rovers with bolt on wings so they could be removed and fitted with new wings with larger clearance for the tyres.

Apparently they used up their supply of spare diffs pretty quickly, some only lasted a few hundred yards and Land Rover sent more out to them on a plane with a couple of engineers. They reported that the tyres and the excess load in the Range Rovers was the problem. The Range Rovers were sitting hard on the bump stops at rest!

Following tests back in the UK, they convinced the expedition leader to offload a lot of unnecessary kit, ditch the tyres in favour of 7.50-16 Firestone Sats, lose one of the sand ladders and try again. This they did and made far better progress but the lead, pathfinder team couldn't carry their equipment themselves so they bought a cheap IIA from a local dealer that had been rolled, stripped the roof off it and used that to carry all the axes, chainsaws, Tirfor winches, cables etc.

Apparently the IIA was donated to the local military once the mission was complete but it was pretty beaten up by that point!

Craig.
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Davidss

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Re: Overland but North South
« Reply #9 on: April 27, 2021, 10:18:56 AM »

I recall a slight, but significant, variation in the story.
Apparently the special tyres were 'not good' at self cleaning, which together with their size, meant that a significant weight of mud was retained with the tyre tread. The combination then acted as a massively heavy flywheel, the increased stopping and starting rotational torque was what did for the differentials.

I have no source documentaion to refer to.

Regards.
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Craig T

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Re: Overland but North South
« Reply #10 on: April 27, 2021, 10:24:50 AM »

That sounds perfectly reasonable David.

They were steel wheels it seems with tubed tyres so they would be very heavy things before getting clogged up with the jungle mud. Can imagine the torque transmitted if one of those starts to spin then grips a tree root again.
Early Range Rover diffs were two pin affairs as well so less robust than the later 4 pin design.

Craig.
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Wittsend

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Re: Overland but North South
« Reply #11 on: April 27, 2021, 10:30:37 AM »

No excuse for overloading the vehicles  :shakeinghead

The Army should have known this and either uprated the running gear, or dumped some of the cargo or used more vehicles if they needed the stuff.



 :RHD

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Larry S.

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Re: Overland but North South
« Reply #12 on: April 27, 2021, 06:11:44 PM »

As mentioned a late IIA was purchased locally, air lifted into the expedition and made most of the journey as their "Path finder" vehicle.

Story in the John Carroll book is that the Range Rovers were having major mechanical problems in the jungle, mainly with differentials. The British Army that was running the expedition decided to fit oversize swamp / flotation tyres to the Range Rovers for the Darien section. Land Rover advised against it but the Army insisted so Land Rover supplied the Range Rovers with bolt on wings so they could be removed and fitted with new wings with larger clearance for the tyres.

Apparently they used up their supply of spare diffs pretty quickly, some only lasted a few hundred yards and Land Rover sent more out to them on a plane with a couple of engineers. They reported that the tyres and the excess load in the Range Rovers was the problem. The Range Rovers were sitting hard on the bump stops at rest!

Following tests back in the UK, they convinced the expedition leader to offload a lot of unnecessary kit, ditch the tyres in favour of 7.50-16 Firestone Sats, lose one of the sand ladders and try again. This they did and made far better progress but the lead, pathfinder team couldn't carry their equipment themselves so they bought a cheap IIA from a local dealer that had been rolled, stripped the roof off it and used that to carry all the axes, chainsaws, Tirfor winches, cables etc.

Apparently the IIA was donated to the local military once the mission was complete but it was pretty beaten up by that point!

Craig.

Man... it sounds more like a sales publicity stunt that went bad!!!
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Larry S.

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Re: Overland but North South
« Reply #13 on: April 27, 2021, 06:13:59 PM »

Based on what else all y'all have said... do you think Land Rover just pushed this project too early?   Or perhaps they were just a little too over confident?
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w3526602

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Re: Overland but North South
« Reply #14 on: April 27, 2021, 06:46:40 PM »

Yep, a IIA 88" was used as a pathfinder vehicle. Rolled away to be scrapped at the end.

Hi,

My reading of the Darian Gap thingy, in "Workhorse", was that a Range Rover was (to be?) the hero, and the Series was a support vehicle.

602
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