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[Kernowcam]

Trying to build a double garage in garden
Turns out the garden which was a field is In an aonb! Apparently a clause in the planning stops development without planning permission . Condition 4 , class e part 1 schedule 2 may have caught me.
I was hoping to get away without planning under the permitted development rights.
Anyone with knowledge of this please?

[seriesonenut]

speak to your local planning officer. Being in an AOB, permitted development rights are often withdraw to ensure everything gets scrutiny. It does not mean it will not be allowed. 

[Kernowcam]

Will do. Very hard to talk to as the system requires money up front for everything! Before you even know what you are trying to do!
Building regs totally different matter!

[AlexB]

If you look on the Planning Portal, it will give loads of info on planning permission and Permitted Development
Once you have decided what you want, then give them a ring It is in Planning Officer's interests to talk to apllicants as it makes for a happier easier life for all

I suspec that you will have to ask if you are likely to get permission if you go for Full Planning .
Are there other garages in gardens ?

[Moogling]

You can definitely make it happen, but you're almost certainly going to be conditioned to use certain materials in the construction and views across the landscape will be considered in the location and height of the structure.

 A chat with your planning office would be wise and i would also consider an outline planning application  to establish  constraints prior to investing too much 'resource' in the project!

[Riffy]

I'm currently building an outbuilding, under permitted development rights, I repeatedly re read the rules and limitations (documentation from the planning portal). Finally I emailed the council planning office to ask them if I was correct re permitted development rights, they were helpful, went through the details of my site and informally agreed I had the right to build subject to restrictions.
This was informal, if I want something in writing, yes, it begins to cost money, ie, lawful development certificate etc
My roundabout point is to establish communication with yr planning office asap, don't need to pay, just informal to begin with. It's too easy to assume they are the enemy!

[Libby_59series2]

It would need an application in my experience, but that's not to say it wouldn't get support. Your area seems to make quite a difference, i have found North Cornwall Parishes to be slightly more difficult ! Perhaps bitter from the huge amounts of development taking place. Which AONB are you in the county ? If in doubt the Cheapest option is the do i need planning application form which the council turn around fairly quickly and costs ~£55ish from memory. We often do this when AONB or Conservation areas leave an ambiguity around Permitted development. Even bordering an AONB but being outside can be an issue.

Happy to get you a Digimap OS plan if you want to make any self submissions (which i would recommend as it easy !) I have the latest CAD files for scalable plans which can be used for the Location and site plans needed.

I agree in principle outline is a good option but if you have a design which is sympathetic to the agricultural area and its not totally crazy in terms of impact it can help to make a full application and show detail and considerations you have made regarding the design. You would have to make another application after outline anyway for the reserved matters or now the "technical details" as the system is changing. 

One crucial point which makes this much simpler is if the land is considered Domestic curtilage associated with a dwelling. If it is in a field which would otherwise have agricultural use it would not strictly speaking comply with Permitted development anyway. If its in the Garden or Domestic outdoor space of a welling then there is very good reason to believe it would be supported pending the likely overall impact.

I know Farm and other agricultural buildings are different again and not something i have dealt with much but if you can prove any agricultural or industrial need then that another big bonus.

In the past few years we have secured some big barns and Studios for Houses within Gardens which 10 years ago or before the Unitary authority i think would never have received support. 

[Moogling]

Yeah, I'm a planning advisor (archaeology).  I'd prefer early engagement, and I don't want to refuse proposals - last thing I want is to be stood as expert witness in front of the planning committee - much rather work with the applicant to a reasonable solution!

[Kernowcam]

It’s the condition 4 that has got me.
Most of Cornwall is anob  so that’s the start point.
In n Cornwall
Apparantly my original planning added the clause 4.a
My garden was field and planning was secured for domestic curtladge.
Also the summer house and green house have pp which somehow I need to look at.
So I want to know I down the gotten building and make a bit bigger!

[Genem]

Years ago we were looking to rebuild a derelict Grade B listed house, at the time classified as "unfit for human habitation".  The key bit of the pre-planning was to get the National Park Planning woman and Historic Scotland both on site at the same time and have a discussion over some very rough hand drawn plans.  That lead to the Historic Scotland bloke explaining that the site was a collection of small buildings so they would prefer a design that replicated that - so our extension - sketched out in front of him - was designed to look like another small building linked to the original by a single storey space and so on. Once they feel that you are working on "their" plan they are a lot more amenable. ....the single storey "corridor" space ended up as a 12x24 dining room !  We managed to bat off their suggestion of cladding it all in corrugated iron  - "revolutionised housing in the Highlands" - on the basis that we'd face it with stone.

A bigger project than a garage but the principle remains the same. A pity you'll have the expense of going for PP though.

[w3526602]

Hi,

In the 1980s I owned 7 acres of a local Welsh mountain, plus another 1/2 acre outside the dry-stone wall, and alongside the road  ... only it was "common" (Which I think meant any local farm owner could graze his cattle on it)..

Somehow I managed to get Planning Permission to erect a concrete block building, 60ft x 20ft, on the common bit, to in-Winter sheep. This was the Swansea Valley, so don't ask.

Unfortunately, or perhaps fortunately, after I had levelled the site, but before I started digging, I had to shoot my heavy mare, and lost interest, so sold up ... it had doubled in value in the ten years I owned it. Last lime I did a Google Earth, somebody had put a large shipping container of the levelled area.

602

[Sunny Jim]

Years ago we were looking to rebuild a derelict Grade B listed house

Your 'after' photograph looks authentic and is in character with the original! That should be the aim of development in a conservation area.

A friend of mine lives in a Grade II listed thatched cottage near Winchester and was able to extend it, but only as a linear cottage but could have a non-attached 'garden room' set off in an L shape. He had to make a 'clean break' in the wall style with no attempt to match the brickwork etc. It took him quite an effort to get the conservation officer to allow him to thatch the extension - it was done by gentle persuasion, and the fact that other cottages that had been extended with tiled roofs in the same village looked terrible! The end result looks fantastic, and doesn't spoil the property at all. He was also able to build one of those wooden detached double garages that you see advertised in classic car magazines.

Interestingly, the attitude of the conservation officer initially was that if the cottage wasn't suitable for the occupant, the occupant should move somewhere more suitable, and not alter it. That said, my friend is a salesman, so obviously has persuasive powers!

Final point - does the local authority have some sort of guidance document on what is likely to be acceptable and where?

Sunny Jim

[w3526602]

Hi,

Log onto gardenlaw.co.uk

You have to scroll down to find the "clicky" to enter the site.

Enrolment and posting is free, but you have to have made three postings, before you can post a picture.

Discussions are wide and varied ("Cat poo throwing" is/was a popular subject). Insults are bandied between the experts, but they seem to remain friends. The forum is an interesting browse on a rainy afternoon.

There are were some LA Planners on the forum, but top of the pile is Peter Philips, or Phillips?. Doesn't matter, on the forum he is known as PILMAN. He runs a planning consultancy in, I think Bedford. Even after a break of several years, Pilman remembered me, and offered advice, off forum, about my drive.  His advice comes FOC, but I understand his wife gets annoyed when he spends his own money helping forum members. Lovely bloke, but I think he is older than me ... so hurry.

There is also an organisation who will try to overturn local interpretations and maverick Planning Policies ... but at a price. I was interested, because of my LAs restriction on second dropped kerbs. Barbara was not in favour of spending more money ... the front garden is in the process of being paved (250sq.ft) in bricks to match the bungalow ... so I made a tactical retreat, but will return when I have established a "bridgehead". 

I will see if I can find this organisation's email address or website, but personally, I'd rather avoid locking horns over a Listed Building.

602

[Kernowcam]

Libby-59.  I have pm,Ed you. .

[Genem]

Your 'after' photograph looks authentic and is in character with the original! That should be the aim of development in a conservation area.

Final point - does the local authority have some sort of guidance document on what is likely to be acceptable and where?

Sunny Jim

Not really, its best to talk directly to the planners. To be fair to the National Park they are quite good at that bit. Interestingly over the 25 years since we started that project their ideas have changed considerably. Back then any changes had to be "in keeping" with the original, cast iron pipework, slate roof, timber framed sash windows - which is what we did. Now, any changes need to be visibly different, NOT look like the original. The people who bought from us have extended it further....with a flat roof, very large glazed areas ( metal framed) and vertical timber cladding. Apparently the line is that each period in history has its own look, that trying to freeze buildings in time is not a good idea. Hey-ho, at least we got away with not having to replace the wriggly tin...

We are way off topic but I might nip down and take a photo of the recent extension, its only 300m away...