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[Genem]

I concur with the safety concerns and no MOT requirement. You only have to read some of the comments on here and on our Facebook page to realise that classic vehicle ownership and  mechanical ability do not always run together. At the back of the shed I have a 1967 S2A 88in, Its a wreck, been off the road since July 2001. Legally I can cobble it together, pour some fuel into it, attach a battery, decide its roadworthy and set off down the M9. Unless Plod spots the trail of rust and excess components littering the centre lane and decides to pull me over the first indication that my judgement in these matters is not too hot will be when the inevitable happens...  The MOT may only be a once a year check, I've had a brake-light fail ( on the Merc) as it bumped back down off the ramp.... but its better than nothing. There should certainly be a requirement to have any vehicle that has been long-term SORN checked professionally before its allowed out to play...     

[Peter Holden]

I am listening to the discussion about accident/ insurance/ roadworthyness.  The MOT proving roadworthyness is a load of twaddle, it is only valid for the day of the test.  Suppose you have a eurobox and it is your daily driver and you cover 20000 miles per year, after 6 months you have an accident, the MOt doesnt prove that it is roadworthy, just that it might have been 6 months and 10000 miles earlier.  I say might because on modern cars lots of parts like brake pipes cant be inspected because they are covered with various shield  (MOT testers often write that they cant check things).  Who knows what condition they are in.

Statistics are on ourside, historic vehicles arenot involved in as many reported acidents.

Peter

[gilbo]

So to get back to my original question(s).
How does an insurance company determine, based on the assumption that they only have access to the same two lookups I do, if the owner has declared the vehicle MoT exempt? Otherwise it just appears as if they have not bothered to MoT it (perhaps assuming wrongly I believe, that the system will automatically do that for them if it is over a certain age).

I had always understood that no current MoT meant the insurance would be invalid too in terms of their liability?

[Ndrwdz]

... and the police don't seem to have access to any more information either.
I got stopped in Jan 2020 for a sidelight out.

The policeman then went "And your MOT has expired!" before I put him right on that one.

Andrew

[Wittsend]

Historic Vehicle status and MoT exemptions been around for a few years now.

The police at the road-side have access to the DVLA driver & vehicle databases and therefore any policeman should know the age of the vehicle he's looking at and be well aware of the tax, MoT and insurance reps that apply to the vehicle' driver in question - or should be.

If not - why not - they should be properly trained and briefed by now about historic vehicles.


As has been posted (and repeated many times) the MoT pass means nothing - diddly squat.

It's a question of "roadworthiness" tyres, lights, weight, brakes, steering, suspension etc.
The people stopping you have access to inspectors and if your vehicle is not in complacence with the regs - you will be done, regardless of whether you have an MoT cert.

Mind how you go ....

 
 

[g6anz]

As far as I'm concerned an annual check by a competent person is worth the money. Yes, its only valid for the day its done but it will show on the vehicles record and from that there is the implication that you are looking after the vehicle. I'm lucky in that my garage knows old cars quite well and tests accordingly, but they will fail one if its bad.

[gilbo]

The police at the road-side have access to the DVLA driver & vehicle databases and therefore any policeman should know the age of the vehicle he's looking at and be well aware of the tax, MoT and insurance reps that apply to the vehicle' driver in question - or should be.

And there is the crux of it.
If the police are using the same database info as we have access to (as per Andrew's stop - about not having a current MoT) then it would appear there is no definitive statement about the owner declaring it as exempt and the Police cannot just assume that based on its age that it has so been declared whether they understand the legislation or not.
Poor state of affairs - I mean it can only be a few lines of code to indicate that the owner understands and has conformed to the rules regarding exemption.
I suspect the only reason Andrew got pulled was more to do with not having an MoT (=money!) than the fact his sidelight was out? Cynical .... me?
Anyhow, a moot point for me as I will to continue to have mine MoT'ed and I only raised the question out of inquisitiveness and to see if anyone had any real world experience of how their insurance company see things.
Maybe following LRTR's recent accident thread we will find out?

[Genem]

The Police reference for Insurance is not to DVLA, its to the MID...

"The Motor Insurance Database (MID) records all insured vehicles in the UK. It's used by the Police and the DVLA to help make sure all vehicles are insured, and by drivers and insurers to find insurance details of vehicles involved in an accident. The MID is managed by the Motor Insurers’ Bureau (MIB), which works to reduce uninsured driving in the UK and compensates victims of uninsured and untraced drivers."

https://www.mib.org.uk/managing-insurance-data/the-motor-insurance-database-mid/

[Ndrwdz]

I suspect the only reason Andrew got pulled was more to do with not having an MoT (=money!) than the fact his sidelight was out? Cynical .... me?

It was deffo the sidelight - he didn't know about the MoT until we'd been standing there 10 minutes or so.

He had a trainee / new PC with him, and was getting her to run through all the paperwork checks etc.
I suspect that if he'd not had the trainee he wouldn't have stopped me - good learning opportunity he thought.

He was less impressed that we changed the bulb faster than he could complete the paperwork 

[Genem]

Going OT but a group of us "green-laning" near the Hogsback in Surrey arrived at the end of the track to find a Policeman waiting for us, the Police had been rung by an irate local to complain about people "driving on a footpath".  There followed a lengthy discussion about what the various legal rights of way entailed, reference to the OS map we had, neatly marked up and what the various symbols meant. He was clueless on the subject.....and then threatened to "do us" if we drove across the footpath to get onto the tarmac. At that point some-one laughed. Not helpful.

He took names, noted registrations.....and had the grace to write confirming we were in the right. That must have been in the mid 80s.... I bet that route is long since shut !

[gvo416j R.I.P.]

Correct, if its taxed it must be insured. I changed my Rover car from PLG class to Historic which automatically taxed it, so promptly put on SORN as I had no Road Traffic acts insurance . Possible  £100 fine if not done so https://www.gov.uk/vehicle-insurance/uninsured-vehicles

Was it definitely taxed??

I recently sent off for a new log book for my S3 which had been off the road since before SORN was started.

The log book was duly returned with the PLG removed and Historic added. As it was not quite ready for use I filed the log book away.

About 3 weeks later I got a letter reminding me that the vehicle must now be either insured or SORNED and it showed the link to the website which explains the rule. Out of curiousity I then  checked the 'get vehicle information' page on the DVLA website. This still showed " no details found" [it had not been on the road since 1989 -- way before all this online stuff]

As it was only a week or so away from completion and the tax is £0 I went ahead and insured it then taxed it and declared MOT exemption online. Within only about 24 hrs. the website had changed to show the green page in Wittsend reply.


A friend had a vehicle which aged out to 40 years old where the tax was due about 6 months away from the MOT. He duly got his new £0 tax but as there was a current MOT the website would not accept a declaration of MOT exemption.  When the MOT was due 6 months later he went online and tried unsuccessfully to declare it exempt. For the final 6 months of the first Historic year the website showed the red page showing correctly that the MOT had expired

[Kernowcam]

Just trawling though the discussion.
Not sure if I missed it but £54 for a vehicle health check is ok as a tight Cornishman.
It gives a degree of reassurance and I am wondering, if your tax exempt landy failed a mot, which you techincally don’t need to take,  where would you be?

[Clifford Pope]

The MOT proving roadworthyness is a load of twaddle, it is only valid for the day of the test.

It's valid for the next 12 months. The point is that being valid does not prove the vehicle is roadworthy.

Similarly possession of a driving licence does not prove you are a competent driver, simply that you passed a driving test . People and vehicles can decline in roadworthiness.

[Peter Holden]

Witrh reference to G6anz and the regular checks. My nephew and I are both competent mechanics (nephew is an engineer too) and we drive and look over each others vehicles regularly and  a fresh pair of eyes and a fresh driver find faults very quickly and this happens much more often than once per year.

Peter

[crumbly65]

The police at the road-side have access to the DVLA driver & vehicle databases and therefore any policeman should know the age of the vehicle he's looking at and be well aware of the tax, MoT and insurance reps that apply to the vehicle' driver in question - or should be.

If not - why not - they should be properly trained and briefed by now about historic vehicles.

 

I got pulled over a couple of years ago by a young copper and his older colleague.  His excuse was that my vehicle was showing as uninsured.   My vehicle certainly was insured, and always has been, and he accepted my assurance without asking for any proof.

It turned out to be an amicable stop.  He spent about 5 minutes chatting with SWMBO and me about classic vehicles, speed of modern traffic, and another 5 minutes chatting about my S2 and wandering around it.

Sent us on our way with a cheery grin and a safe journey wish.

I suspect the 2 officers were a bit bored on a nice sunny, quiet day.......