S2C Forum Archives
Main Section => Workshop Wisdom => 602's Musings => Topic started by: w3526602 on September 20, 2020, 07:26:01 AM
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Hi,
The point I was trying to make was, that if I'm travelling at 30mph, I'd rather bite the steering wheel when it has dropped to 25mph, than still be traveling at 20mph when I suddenly become unrestrained, and find that the steering wheel is now stationary.
But I don't have the math to argue any further, so I'll wind my neck in.
602
Totally OT ... many of us will have seen films of the D-day paras falling out of the sky, with bags, on ropes, dangling from their feet. The idea was that their MGW was reduced as soon as the bag hit the ground, so the parachute was able to slow down before the squelchy bits hit the deck. What's that got to do with anything? Dunno!
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Totally OT ... many of us will have seen films of the D-day paras falling out of the sky, with bags, on ropes, dangling from their feet. The idea was that their MGW was reduced as soon as the bag hit the ground, so the parachute was able to slow down before the squelchy bits hit the deck. What's that got to do with anything? Dunno!
That's an interesting idea, but I suspect it is a flawed argument.
For a start the parachute will have been descending carrying a heavier weight than just the person, so will be travelling faster. (I presume that heavy people descend faster than light ones?) So even if it does slow up after the bag has hit the ground, it will simply be returning to the speed it would have been descending without the bag?
Also I'm not sure what happens to a parachute if its speed of descent is braked - don't they suddenly collapse - I don't think they go on descending fully open do they, they are not balloons, and depend on the steady air flow to stay inflated?
It sounds to me a little bit like the assertion that if a lift cable breaks you should jump in the air a split second before hitting the basement, on the argument that it will lessen the impact. Not sure about that one either. :)
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Hi Clifford,
I think the theory is that by reducing the weight by 20kg (guess) a couple of seconds before touchdown, the parachute to slows down. I can't think of any other explanation but I'm happy to be convinced.
Somehow, I have a speed of 20ft per second (15+mph?) mph for a parachute,in my mind, but I don't know where I got that from. ???
As teenagers we used to jump off a 10ft wall, frequently, onto a pebble beach. I don't think I'd want to do it now.
If you fall off a 100ft cliff, the best advice is to flap your arms ... you might be the first.
There is a well documented incident of a Lancaster tail-gunner jumping out of a burning Lancaster, without his parachute, and waking up with a sore knee. Memory is becoming distorted 21,000ft? 41,000ft? I think the Germans found his parachute in the aircraft wreckage. Google should know.
More recently, but still a long time ago, a US Marine sergeant jumped from a balloon. 800 ft? His chute didn't open, but being a good soldier, he died "by the book". Knees together, and slightly bent, arms tucked in. He broke a leg.
602
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https://aviationtrails.wordpress.com/heroic-tales-of-world-war-2/rear-gunner-flight-sergeant-nicholas-s-alkemade-115-squadron-raf/
602
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Hi,
I don't know if this counts?
On December 22, 1942, 20-year-old Harry Griffiths and 29-year-old pilot Sid Gerow left Mankato airfield in Minnesota bound for Montreal. They were to use this flight to test out the brand new twin-engine Boston bomber to which they had been assigned. The final test was on the bombsight. Griffiths climbed into the aircraft’s nose and lay on his belly. As he moved into position, the forward entry hatch gave way and his lower body tumbled out of the plane. Luckily, he was able to hold on, first to the bombsight and then later as he slipped further out of the plane he was able to grasp the wooden fitting of the bombsight. Gerow, the pilot, heard Griffith’s cries for help and he quickly assessed the situation. He couldn’t leave the controls but he could dive the plane toward a nearby frozen lake. He hoped that Griffiths would get the hint and drop from his precarious perch as the bomber skimmed over the ice. Griffiths could see what Gerow had in mind and let go as they flew low over the ice-covered lake. As he fell, he felt for a moment like he was gliding along, but then he struck the surface at high speed and went skidding for close to a kilometer, according to Gerow, who circled the lake to see if Griffiths was okay. Though stunned and bruised, Griffiths rose and walked toward help. He taken to Ste. Anne De Bellevue military hospital and made a full recovery. He had no memory of getting up and walking away, but did recall everything leading up to his fall.
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Hi again (sorry)
There was a story (probably untrue) that a platoon of Ghurkas asked the pilot to fly a bit lower, before they jumped.
Nobody had explained what the parachutes were for.
602 (time to get my coat, I think)
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phooey
The parachute boffins would know the average weight of a soldier and their equipment and provided a chute of appropriate area to allow a safe landing.
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Please delete if not relevant , mail being parachuted to us on patrol
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It's about as relevant as the rest of the comments ....
:lancaster
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phooey
The parachute boffins would know the average weight of a soldier and their equipment and provided a chute of appropriate area to allow a safe landing.
My father always quoted "Ten bums to the ton" from his service days. This rule of thumb is the weight of 10 soldiers and their kit.
David
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^^^^^ Might work for skinny recruits but it'll be (weigh) off when you get to the MT Platoon....
:tiphat
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Hi Gene,
Er, last time I tried Barbara's bathroom scales, I clocked 100kgm. The problem is, I still think of myself as I was when called up for National Service ... 19 years old, nine stone, with a 32" chest, and a 60bpm pulse.
602
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Hi,
Google says ...
The purpose of the bag is to allow a paratrooper to carry a very heavy load including mmgs light mortars and bazookas as well as ammo, have it land with the paratrooper for immediate use while at the same time reducing the potential for injury by being too heavy when landing. So the idea is that the leg bag is attached to ‘the leg’ of the paratrooper and once the trooper has jumped and the shoot has opened the trooper released the bag which hung below them on a length of rope. The bag would land first and the paratrooper now 40 pounds or more lighter would slow slightly before landing and have less chance of injury. However what happened on DDay is that Many of the pilots of the transport planes particularly the US Division aircraft were very green and inexperienced. In many cases when coming under fire they accelerated and and as a result many of the troops jumped too low and too fast and when they hit the airstream it was a lot faster than expected and the bag straps were not intended to be used at such speeds. Also the intention was to release the bag (which was attached to one leg) so that it hung below the paratrooper before landing but in many cases due to the low altitude and higher speeds as well as less practical experience with the bag compared to the British resulted in lots of the bags failing. In many cases the bags were ripped of the legs (along with helmets and Google’s etc) and were effectively lost.
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GOOGLES!! :agh
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I hope that should have read "goggles!" :thud
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The dropline/bag line doesn't reduce the speed of descent. Its there so the trooper's legs only have to absorb the impact of the trooper and his webbing. The burgan weight can just hit the ground as no damage there. Imagine trying to roll out of a jump with 120lb (Falklands battle weight for the tab) on your back. Remove that 120lb and its an easier rollout and less leg injuries. Just a normal jump the lads take a fair few leg breaks, backs and ankles.
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^^^^ Which is why sensible people use a Helicopter :-)
:whistle
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^^^^ wouldn't want one of those hanging off my feet in a drop either
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Which is why sensible people use a Helicopter :-)
Hi Gene,
What do you mean ... "Sensible?"
I had an RAAF "Iriquois" of the "Teeny Weeny Squadron" "buzz" me at Butterworth. My head was under the dash ... I thought he was coming thru my windscreen.
602 ("On topic" coz I was driving a olive drab S2, at the time).
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Hi,
Reminder ... I raised the subject of parachutes as a comparison with seat belts in a GO - sort of stop -GO - STOP situation. The original question was whether a seat belt that grabbed you, and then let you go, was better than no belt at all.
While I have my thoughts, I don't know the answer. But surely the boffins have considered that question, and done some tests? But who? And will they tell us?
Does everybody remember the Volvo "test dummies" that walked away?
602
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Hi,
Try this link (fingers crossed)
http://bestride.com/news/technology/two-little-girls-inspired-volvos-crazy-new-2015-xc90-crash-test-video
It wasn't what I was looking for (and the video doesn't work), but there is mention of new methods of preventing you being thrown around the cabin I'm not sure if that is what I'm trying to talk about. :stars
Whatever, it seems desirable to be held very tight, as the situation "hits the fan".
602
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That's what air bags and side curtains are for.
These days cars have a very sophisticated occupant protection system and a combination of proportionally tensioning belts and air bags can be deployed using accelerometers such that it all works before you know you're going to have an accident.
The kit is replaced, can only be deployed once, is expensive and that's what your insurance and lawyers are for.
:wooly-jumper
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^^^^^ and will generally result in the car being written off I believe ?
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Hi Gene,
Even a a lost key can result in an "economic" write off. I have seen £600 to replace a lost key.
So the insurer's write off you car, pay you their valuation (minus the "first" £100), and if they are lucky, you lose your 20 years of NCB, probably doubling your premium ... although it will slowly reduce over the next few years.
In the meantime, they claim your car, and probably have friends in the trade, who can find them a new key. I don't know who decides that "ECONOMIC WRITE_OFF" will be endorsed on the registration document, but I believe there are legitimate ways of getting that wiped off. Whatever ... they have a valuable car to sell.
I lost the key for my Jimny. The main dealers looked up the key number. A new key cost £70. Getting the key cut to the right shape cost £20. I then had to get the car transported to the main dealer ... using Home Start... so that was FOC. I think the main dealer charged another £20 to introduce the car to the key.
"My turn in the barrel tonight!"
Me? I'd have hit the steering lock with an angle grinder, and replaced it with a steering lock/ignition switch from an S3. It probably would have made little difference to the value of the car. OK, there's probably a secret swith somewhere, to prevent jumping the ignition. Surely not insurmountable?
602
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Usually the accident is always someone else's fault so you claim from their insurance and you claim for your uninsured losses.
That's why legal protection is handy :first
Worked well for me...
We were discussing buying service plans in another topic. A similar type of "insurance" covers the difference between the book value of the car and a new one.
Certainly worth having if you have a brand new car.
Nowadays more & more people seem to lease their car and they don't actually own it and they don't have to worry about such matters.
Depending what you've opted for, you need not be out of pocket should your car be in an accident and it's not your fault.
Should you have to claim on your policy you'll just have to suck it in and lose your no claims "bonus".
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Hi Alan,
Thanks for your thoughts.
I agree with your comment about LEGAL PROTECTION.
Many years ago, I was still in bed. Phone rang ... Barbara ... Would I write down the registration of the lorry she was chasing.
Dark wet and windy morning. She had been alongside a supermarket articulated trailer, which was slowly undertaking her. When his rear wheels were alongside her, it suddenly pulled into her lane. Bang! Scrape! Oops!. Her SAAB was still drivable, so she carried on behind the lorry, and phoned me. Details noted, she turned off at the next junction, returned home.
I phoned the supermarket Transport Manager, who confirmed it was their vehicle, but the driver was "on contract". He told me not to worry about it.
Shortly after turning back, Barbara spied a police car parked on "his" little lay-by, so she pulled in, and whiled away a happy half-hour chatting to Plod. AS the damage had "taken-out" her head lamps, he suggested that she called for Recovery. He uttered a mighty oath, when the recovery truck arrived 20 minutes later. Well, what do you expect from Britannia?
The SAAB was dropped off outside our front gate. Barbara phoned Brittania. The SAAB was collected about an hour later, closely followed by delivery of a rental car. And then the problems started.
Barbara bought another SAAB (which later wrote off itself, my Discovery, and the Transit sized van parked on the other side of the road, from a standing start, in reverse. But that's another story).
We invoked the LEGAL ASSISTANCE part of our insurance, who took up the claim on Barbara's behalf. The Supermarket ignored all correspondence, athough our insurers somehow found out that they insured themselves.
Anybody can insure themselves. All they have to do is to deposit £1,000,000 (last time I looked) with the Attorney General.
Eventually, our insurers took the Supermarket to Court, who decided in our favour.
Our insurers re-instated Barbara's NCD, returned her £100, plus all the extra she had paid in premiums.
Me? I wouldn't be without Legal Assistance. For £10 per year (still?) it can save you a lot of grief ... particularly if the other party has it, and you don't.
602
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You don't necessarily need legal protection.
There are solicitors out there who will take on a case after listening to your story - if they think they can win.
These matters always get dragged out and delayed - it's a wearing down tactic designed to get you to drop the claim/case and settle for less than the going rate. Often it can go right up to the minute the court sits and an offer is made.
Justice can be a slow mover :shakeinghead
Doesn't matter how or who the other party are insured with - you sue the *&%^$ off them.
:snowman-1
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Nowadays more & more people seem to lease their car and they don't actually own it and they don't have to worry about such matters.
So, where would a leased car driver stand if the leased vehicle is written off in an accident that was their fault and the insurance payout to the lease company for the car is less than the lease company would need to replace the car like for like? :stars
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So, where would a leased car driver stand if the leased vehicle is written off in an accident that was their fault and the insurance payout to the lease company for the car is less than the lease company would need to replace the car like for like? :stars
Hi Herald,
If you buy a brand new car, your premium will increase substantially ... because the insurers have to pay the FULL REPLACEMENT COST of a brand new car.
Of course, they keep your wreck, get a trade discount, can probably off-set the VAT, and with luck they can "UP" your premiums, reduce your NCD, and let you pay the "first £100. Their "loss" is probably a nice little earner.
The question is ... does your NEW car premium drop the following year?
Remember, if your insurers write off YOUR car, the policy dies with it. So your next premium will/should be virginal. And so will your NCD. I suspect it doesn't work that way in practice, else everybody would change insurers.
602
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We had a write off recently.
They paid out and kept the policy running to transfer over to the new car.
I am with the Cornish mutual. A few quid extra but they have been fantastic with out problems.
Simple phone calls to a local voice. No add ons, straight through.
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Hi Kernow,
Hmmm!
Maybe you were lucky ... I assume that you claimed on your own policy?
Maybe the Ombudsman has been doing his job?
What was the wreckage worth?
Maybe the Lock-down has concentrated a few minds? Better to take a hit, and keep a customer.
(Help me someone ... I'm struggliing to justify my previous comments.) :whistle
602
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Same for me.
Tesco insurance wrote my Disco 2 off.
No policy cancellation, they just changed it over to my new car with a £45 rebate as it was a cheaper to insure car.
Easy claims process all done over a couple of phone calls and a few emails.
Probably helped that i wasn’t in it and it was parked in the local Land Rover dealership car park when the HGV delivery driver reversed his car trailer through the front end of the disco....
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We had a write off recently.
They paid out and kept the policy running to transfer over to the new car.
I am with the Cornish mutual. A few quid extra but they have been fantastic with out problems.
Simple phone calls to a local voice. No add ons, straight through.
These days insurance polices are the complete package - it's called comprehensive insurance.
Nobody bothers with "à la carte" insurance polices - you don't save any money.
Anyone on a lease car agreement will have to have an (proper) insurance policy and the loss of the vehicle will be covered by that.
Naturally if it were your fault you might expect your premium to increase next time round.
Sometimes we over think these things.....
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Hi,
Amusing. Many yonks ago, the "evening" bus ran amok in DVLAs visitor's car park. Half a dozen cars written off, including my mates "Spridget". (I think D suffix). Very quick payout by the bus company's insurers.
The adriot use of a hammer got the car back into shape.
A couple of weeks later, while driving through the local council estate, a parked car leapt out of a row of other parked cars. Bang!
The same insurance assessor rolled up to assess the damage ....
"I wrote this car off, just a few days ago! Goodbye!" :thud
My mate fitted one of the last BMC "factory" body-shells, and drove the car for a few years, until his mother decreed that she did not want her new grand-daughter travelling in it, and bought him a new Vauxhall Astra Estate. That would have been almost 40 years ago.
That MG Midget is still parked alongside his garage. The garage is occupied by his dismantled 1946 MG TC (chassis on tressles), that I helped him push round his garden during lunch break of my first day at DVLC, June 2nd, 1972.
602
PS. My mate's daughter now has (holds?) a doctorate, at some university. My mate now drives a new Honda CRV.