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[w3526602]

Hi,

When I fitted seats in my 1962 Minivan, I found I was liable to purchase tax. £26 that cost me. 

What happens if I fit seats into the back of a 4x2 Land Rover (ex-WD). OPK ... I'll fit windows too. As I see it, the "Revenue Men, have two options (or do they?) They can hit me with a VAT bill. Or they can do nothing.

Any ideas? Barbara left C&E (Purchaser Tax) before VAT began. Hang on ... my daughter was a roving VAT Inspector in South London, but again, a long time ago. Please ignore this question ... but I'd be happier for another opinion, it will save me a stamp.

602

[Peter Holden]

No tax payable John, those days have gone

Peter

[Wittsend]

Gooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooogle 

Entering the key words "converting a van to a car" brings up ...
THIS

Many years have passed since purchase tax was abolished.
Commercial vehicles may or may not be liable for VAT and it would depend on whether the purchaser was registered for VAT

Speak to the HMRC, 0300 200 3300 - if you can get through 

If this "ploy" is an attempt to circumvent VAT (or VED) I would forget the idea 

If you want a van buy a van, if you want a car, buy a car.
It will cost you more to buy a van and convert it to "something" than buying a car in the first place.



 

[2286]

Folk buy 110 utility station wagon over 110 station wagon as the road fund licence is less than half.

Problem comes when insurance is payable, as the former is classed as a commercial and the later as a passenger car.

[Formerlyjeremy]

I think the old purchase tax rules were that they didn't bother to collect the tax if the vehicle was more than [6???] years old -(Think we had this problem with a Land Rover that my Father had fitted with side windows in the early 70's)

I'm sure I've seen somewhere that the same or similar rules apply to VAT but please make sure as the VAT people aren't known for their sense of humour.

I think I saw somewhere that they weren't keen on the small windows behind the doors on some Ford vans - which would make the things much safer to drive.

Purchase Tax is of course why original LR hoods don't have windows in UK, and also why the cost of a 109 station wagon was little more than an 88. (once Land Rover twigged the 12 seat rule)

[Porkscratching]

Tbh I doubt bunging seats in the back of an old series motor is likely to ring any alarm bells, not something you'd even mention really, obviously a new van with seats added would be a different matter with allsorts of nonsense bs arising..

[w3526602]

Hi,

Many thanks ... your thoughts were similar to my own. Of course, the Revenue Men would collect VAT on the window kit, and again from the firm that fitted them.

Wittsend, a deal has been agreed. I think I'm waiting for the 4x2 project to be "unburied". No doubt my "uncouth" plans will upset a few of our members, but I'll do nothing irreversible, using just a set of spanners. Barbara will have to climb into it, using her new knees ... assuming they ever get round to doing the ops ... and then there's the matter of an auto-gearbox. 

Don't tell Barbara that she "can't". Her 70th birthday involved driving a Ferrari round Silverstone, hitting 120mph, followed by the same in an Aston Martin. She entered her TVR in the "Rally of the Vales". I taught her to drive in a Sunbeam Talbot 90, on Penang Island. On returning to UK, she had one lesson with BSM, and passed her test in South London, in a rusty Mini.

Plod "pulled her" on the M4, in her Honda CRX. "I clocked you at 104mph ... don't let me catch you again!"

She's a "tough cookie"! Those of you that have met her may have noticed that she only has the use of one arm ... her right arm was "mangled" by a "medic", at the nursing home where she was born, 1942, when she was three days old. She never let it hold her back. As Press Officer, followed by "Executive Board Secretary",  at DVLA she was consorting with the likes of a well know DPM, and several Secs of State ... and even Clarkson. For her second monthly meeting, she was told to "take the Chair".  At lunch time, in the lift, she met the Sec of State ... Tom King MP. "They dropped you in it there!" he commented.

I still wake up screaming.

602

PS ... On Penang, she was stopped for carrying  two hitch hikers, in the back of the Sunbeam. Only the instructor may travel with a learner. Despite carrying side-arms, the two officers literally ran away.   

[w3526602]

Entering the key words "converting a van to a car" brings up ... THIS

Hi again Alan.

I've just re-read your mail. Remind me to obtain or print off a copy of that information sheet.

My incident with the Gentlemen in Bluer Suits stemmed from the RTA (1960?)saying one thing, and the Finance Act(1956) saying something else, using the same word to describe two different circumstances. At the time of the event, there was no National Speed Limit, except for Goods Vehicles.

In 1956, the Court of Appeal ruled that a 4x4 is a DUAL PURPOSE VEHICLE (as is an estate car/shooting brake/station wagon). This is mentioned in "Workhorse of the World" ... and in the RTAs.

The RTAs clearly state that both seats and windows must be fitted for a van to be exempt from the "goods" speed limit. As far as I can make out, the concession does not extend to pick-ups fitted with rear seats.

After 60+ years, I had not got my mind around the RTAs definition of "rear seats". Memory says something about the back of the rear seat being one third the distance from the steering wheel to ...... My brain hurts every time I try to work out what it's saying. Maybe an "idiot sheet" (logical tree) might help.

"Enquiries made at the time" suggested that different Police Forces had different policies for enforcing the Goods Vehicle sped limit.  Officers I spoke to inn the "Met" either didn't know what I was talking about, or said that they didn't enforce it. Hmmm! In 1958, I hitched a lift in a Jensen lorry (Google) ... he was clocking 70mph through London ... something do with "aluminium construction", (according to the driver) to avoid the then restraints on goods vehicles with ULW exceedng 3 tons. Would that have been the 20mph limit?

602

PS ... I can't wait to have a discussion with the gentleman at the tip, about whether a Historic Vehicle (not allowed to carry commercial goods) is a goods vehicle. I'll probably find the LA have their own definitions.  Is there a legal term for "Things have changed"?

A driver was once charged with driving a car with the "Lion of Scotland" painted on the door (Apparently there is still such an offence). The Perp pleaded guilty. The Clerk of the Court did some research, found there was only one penalty ... DEATH BY BEHEADING. So they fined him five shillings.

[w3526602]

Hey!

https://www.northamptonshire.gov.uk/councilservices/waste-and-recycling/Pages/Restrictions-at-household-waste-recycling-centres.aspx

Yeah, I can live with that.

 

602

[oilstain]

Is the real issue being insurance if you add extra seats and could use them for extra people

[Porkscratching]

Is that only an issue if there's an accident and someone is injured as a result of sitting in said seat?
Realistically if 602 bungs the usual  sideways seats in his old motor I can't see him in the real world having a problem, anyway they've probably been in there for donkey's years, honest...

[Peter Holden]

My SWB is unsured for 7 seats, our camper for 4 and car for 5  I havent noticed any change to the premiums for the number of seats

Peter

[Wittsend]

As long as you are below the number that makes it a minibus You'll be fine.

And that each passenger has a proper fixed down seat (not a mattress on an old beer crate).


 

[w3526602]

Problem comes when insurance is payable, as the former is classed as a commercial and the later as a passenger car.
Hi,

Many yonks ago, my mate (Reg Gen of Shipping, retd) bought a Minivan ... and then found he could only insure if it was used commercially.

Thinking caps on. 

He eventually declared that he was a Civil Servant / Bee Keeper. One year he did a roaring trade selling mead (by the bottle or plastic tumbler) at the local agricultural show.

602