S2C Forum Archives
Main Section => Welcome to our virtual Pub Meeting ... => Topic started by: Mycroft on April 11, 2023, 12:30:49 AM
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This just popped up on my FB feed. Looks interesting - certainly interesting timing. Does anyone know more about it?
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More info
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competition for Classic Land Rover by the look of it
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Interesting timing just as LRO closes. Maybe LRO become a bit too diffuse or the different publishers have different cost bases or target audiences.
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I personally don’t see there’s scope or demand for two magazines covering series landrovers, but I’m happy to be proved wrong
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Looks good enough. I'll give the first issue a try.
Tom
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Looks good enough. I'll give the first issue a try.
Tom
Same here if I come across it.
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£7.99 :agh
Thats more than I got in my first job for a 45 hours week....
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£7.99 :agh
Thats more than I got in my first job for a 45 hours week....
Ditto, I did wonder if that price was for a single issue.
It could be on a hiding to nothing before it gets started. With reference to the front cover question, restore or modify.
I am in the preserve the originality camp.
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£7.99 :agh
It may have just “ popped up” on FB, but can we be sure it wasn’t originally put there on April 1st? :tiphat
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And what's all this about 'half a century'?
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And what's all this about 'half a century'?
I assume it means it's focus is on the first 50 years of Land Rover, so it covers 1948-1998.
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It appears to be a quarterly magazine according to the website.
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That's right. £25 subscription I think, which works out at £6.25 each.
I'd hate to take out a sub and find it was a total dud. Some of the website has dead links (eg the home page https://www.assignmentmedia.co.uk/), which doesn't exactly breed confidence.
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I assume it means it's focus is on the first 50 years of Land Rover, so it covers 1948-1998.
Up to the end of the Tdi then.
At a subscription price of £25 for 4 issues annually I won't be subscribing. I'll have a look when it appears on the shelf in the local Smith's.
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I stopped reading CLR as I was only reading a maximum of half the articles. This looks like it will cover exactly the same material?
I shan't bother (unless I have to go back to my former employer to have more bits cut off)!
Sunny Jim
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Up to the end of the Tdi then.
At a subscription price of £25 for 4 issues annually I won't be subscribing. I'll have a look when it appears on the shelf in the local Smith's.
Good time period but like you I'll buy one and have a look :bright-idea
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I don't intend buying one, oilstain. I'll just take it off the shelf, have a scan and put it back unless there's something really interesting then I'll probably buy it.
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I don't intend buying one, oilstain. I'll just take it off the shelf, have a scan and put it back unless there's something really interesting then I'll probably buy it.
Wise man :bright-idea
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I rarely find myself in town, even less WH Smith, so it'd be great to hear opinions, if anyone gets a chance to leaf through a copy. I dare say we're not the market, but I am curious to know how it stacks up against CLR.
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^^^ I fear that many people no longer go to towns or WH Smiths (out of town store apart) due to parking problems/charges and the time it takes :shakeinghead
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Very true. I was a lifelong fan of Smiths and have been finding excuses to check out their branches since the 70s - as a child, husband and later parent. But it's become a fairly grim place in the last decade - no I don't want half a tree of receipts and offers of money off next week on things I won't be buying; no I don't want to pay that price for basic stationery and cards; no I don't want to overhear you and your work colleague shouting about your personal lives so loudly I forget why I came in. And no I don't want to give you my blinking email address or see a look of disapproval when I tell you that.
Yes I am turning into one of Harry Enfield's Old Gits. And not the nice one...
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:o
What he said!
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:o
What he said!
Ha! Diolch yn fawr Oilstain :cheers
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There has been a bloke on local radio that my elderly mother insists on having on, otherwise I would not have heard it in passing.
I think he was editor of practical classics. He was on about 205's, orions and mastros!
It made me wonder how many of the the folk buying selling and owning these truly are enthusiasts or speculators looking to make money.
He kept making reference to the ULEZ exemption as a plus point.
Only late on did he refer to spannering ease and parts prices.
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Very true. I was a lifelong fan of Smiths and have been finding excuses to check out their branches since the 70s - as a child, husband and later parent. But it's become a fairly grim place in the last decade - no I don't want half a tree of receipts and offers of money off next week on things I won't be buying; no I don't want to pay that price for basic stationery and cards; no I don't want to overhear you and your work colleague shouting about your personal lives so loudly I forget why I came in. And no I don't want to give you my blinking email address or see a look of disapproval when I tell you that.
Yes I am turning into one of Harry Enfield's Old Gits. And not the nice one...
Ha my wife always used to say something similar about w.h. smith and I used to defend them, until recently when my experiences have been exactly as you describe. Also given how few customers they seem to get, how is it that they are ALWAYS dons some kind of shelf restocking/inventory check/store reorganising when I go into one of their branches.
No I don't want some chocolate for a pound, or whatever mutli-buy offer you've been told to push
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Ha my wife always used to say something similar about w.h. smith and I used to defend them, until recently when my experiences have been exactly as you describe. Also given how few customers they seem to get, how is it that they are ALWAYS dons some kind of shelf restocking/inventory check/store reorganising when I go into one of their branches.
No I don't want some chocolate for a pound, or whatever mutli-buy offer you've been told to push
I'd forgotten about the endless chocolate pushing since they turned into shills for Big Sugar! If I wanted a bar of chocolate, I think I'd probably have picked one up, thanks. I just want to pay and get the hell out of here, if that's remotely possible.
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There has been a bloke on local radio that my elderly mother insists on having on, otherwise I would not have heard it in passing.
I think he was editor of practical classics. He was on about 205's, orions and mastros!
It made me wonder how many of the the folk buying selling and owning these truly are enthusiasts or speculators looking to make money.
He kept making reference to the ULEZ exemption as a plus point.
Only late on did he refer to spannering ease and parts prices.
To be fair, it's a legit reason to buy an old classic at the moment - the ULEZ thing is a nightmare for many folks. I'm sure that loophole will be closed soon enough.
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I just want to pay and get the hell out of here, if that's remotely possible.
My last visit was to Smiths in Tewsbury, a small branch. I picked up a newspaper and went to the counter - NO STAFF, I looked and spoted one filling a shelf, she said we dont serve people we fill up the stock, if you want to buy somthing use the machine. I left the newspaper on the counter and left the store :stars
A shop down the road was happy to serve me....
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That's terrible.
Years ago, this sort of thread would have been gold dust to a Board member trying to stop the rot. Nowadays, you get the feeling they know perfectly well what they're doing and why. I doubt they'd give a damn.
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Annoyingly it's a growing trend in retail stores. There's nothing wrong with the self-service machines, lots of people like them, but you should always have at least one till open (that's run by an actual person).
My local M&S has recently removed all manned tills and replaced with self-service checkouts. So sad. Definitely not going to go down well with their customers.
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I wonder if we should compare this new mag with our excellent club magazine.
The new magazine will apparently cost just shy of £32 for a year (4 issues)
Our club magazine costs £25 for a year and club membership is free (only joking. The membership is £25 and the mag is free)
Value for money?
Peter
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More info
It is odd how LR and non LR publications completely ignore the P38, it is as if it never existed! I know they weren't universally loved, but nor was every iteration of Series / Defender / Disco.
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I just looked up "Land Rover P38 magazine" and you're right - an image search shows nothing - at least for the first few pages I scanned - from any of the Land Rover magazines. That's incredible! They were going for 7 years (?) but seem to have disappeared down a worm hole. Yet I know a few people who swear by (and occasionally at) them.
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I wonder if we should compare this new mag with our excellent club magazine.
The new magazine will apparently cost just shy of £32 for a year (4 issues)
Our club magazine costs £25 for a year and club membership is free (only joking. The membership is £25 and the mag is free)
Value for money?
Peter
Not forgetting the discounts.
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Ha! They suffered reputationally more than most LR products. BMW couldn't wait to kill off the P38 and launch the L322. The L322 was such a shift the P38s dropped in value and were then for the most part poorly maintained and developed a reputation for unreliability. Not all of that was unfair, it was a sackable offence in most LR workshops to leave the keys inside a P38 without a window open....the random central locking / deadlocking gremlin might get you. Stories of owners taking their new P38s off to far flung places and the signal from the fob being jammed and the car being stuck didn't help.
IF they are well maintained they are great vehicles. The chassis doesn't appear to suffer with the same rust issues as earlier or later RRs / Discos and the interior trim is incredibly hard wearing.
A shame to gloss over them. Every family has a problem child :-X
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Not forgetting the discounts.
No question - B2L, discounts, expertise, the forum, the meet-ups, the Facebook group, the technical info, the (ahem!) soap opera = bargain of the century!
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Ha! They suffered reputationally more than most LR products. BMW couldn't wait to kill off the P38 and launch the L322. The L322 was such a shift the P38s dropped in value and were then for the most part poorly maintained and developed a reputation for unreliability. Not all of that was unfair, it was a sackable offence in most LR workshops to leave the keys inside a P38 without a window open....the random central locking / deadlocking gremlin might get you. Stories of owners taking their new P38s off to far flung places and the signal from the fob being jammed and the car being stuck didn't help.
IF they are well maintained they are great vehicles. The chassis doesn't appear to suffer with the same rust issues as earlier or later RRs / Discos and the interior trim is incredibly hard wearing.
A shame to gloss over them. Every family has a problem child :-X
Ha! The Land Rover family is ALL problem children isn't it! A mate who loved his P38 lived in fear of its electrics. When he bought his latest, he was delighted to see there were no warning lights showing. Turned out that was only because the previous owner had disconnected half of them.
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I've had a couple of P38's, still got one.
The first was a green 4.6 Autobiography one that was built for the local pub owner and now TVR company owner. It had full custom leather, sat nav, Playstation in the back, twin TV screens, DVD, wireless headphones etc. So many toys in it but that was really reliable. In my time I changed the essentials and a few air springs but nothing major.
My current one is a bargain basement red 4.0. If you ticked nothing on the options list you got the one I now have. Cloth seats, no air con, no sun roof, no electric seats, no climate control, just 4 seats and a steering wheel.
I never quite had the same affection for them though as I did for my 4.2 LSE Range Rover classic. That was something special but at the time, it was a slowly rusting vehicle that made way for the 4.6 P38. It was surprising how quickly the P38's seemed to disappear from the UK roads when the L322 came out.
Now I wish I had of kept the LSE and repaired the wheel arches and rear floor as I went but hindsight is a wonderful thing.
As for the P38, keep them topped up with coolant and change the camshaft before they fail completely and they can be very good things. The air suspension has never bothered me either although some owners seem very keep to pull it all out and go onto coils?
My parents have an L322. I would never buy one based on that vehicle.
Craig.
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Great pic. My mate's was the same colour, but didn't look half as nice without those wheels. He found the air suspension a PITA.
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/\ very nice. Maybe in a few years time there will be some wider appreciation for them! I've got a pretty basic 4.0 which I'm quite attached to. Slight bubble on the wheel arch needs attending to.....
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The p38a shun ties in with early comment where defender run goes from 1948-98?
Is it a a bmw link thing?
yes I know rrc went to soft dash cross over
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I've got a pretty basic 4.0 which I'm quite attached to. Slight bubble on the wheel arch needs attending to.....
Pretty basic?! It looks GAWJUS!
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It looks far less basic than my one pictured above.
The paint on the bonnet is a lot better too. Mine may look good in that photo but the roof and bonnet is a mass of peeling lacquer....
Craig.
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Craig are they rr sport wheels?
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Craig are they rr sport wheels?
Yes, I believe they are. They are 19" wheels and I needed to add spigot rings to adapt the larger centre bore of the wheels down to the hub diameter of the axles. New wheel nuts as well.
I only paid £700 for that Range Rover.
It was being used as a store shed in the corner of a builders yard! The owner used it quite often up until about 3 years previous when a suspension air spring sprung a leak. He parked it up having just spent lots putting all new brake discs and pads on it, with the intention of getting it sorted out, but then left it. I bought it as spares really but he delivered it to me and it only has 80k miles on it. I had to replace a couple of air springs, all brake pipes, swivel ball joints, steering ball joints, rebuild the callipers, skim the discs, new pads etc etc. I also spent 2 days cleaning the sand, gravel and general building debris out the interior!
I probably put another £700 into getting it going again but think it was worth it.
The choice of wheels was more a means of saving money. The tyres it came with were flat and cracked up and the 16" three spoke wheels were corroded around the beads and to be honest, looked awful. It was cheaper to buy those wheels second hand from ebay than it was to get the old rims refurbished and new tyres fitted to them.
Craig.
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Pretty basic?! It looks GAWJUS!
Too kind :-) I'd had a bit of paintwork done when that pic was taken and whilst there the whole car was lightly machine polished, hence the shine. It is a Bordeaux, a 2001 effort by LR to fit under £40k for I think company car tax purposes, not sure. So there are no heated seats, no sat nav, partly electrically adjustable seats, all to a price point. I think they made a couple of hundred petrol and the same diesel. She's had new air sus bags, ball joints, exhaust, microswitch in passenger door and routine maintenance in the 5 or so years I've had her. Now on 80k miles.
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There's no onboard satnav that's as good as Waze. And you can retro-fit heated seats if that would help. Great looking beast. And Craig's bargain of the century!
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I did really like my P38 when I had it but the running costs were just too much as an only car and the mileage I was doing then. Worst thing was the suspension I know a lot got converted back to coils but the computerised air suspension could throw a tantrum at any time and a right pain to fix
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Hmm. I know beauty is in the eye of the beholder, but in my eye the P38A has not become that much more beautiful with age. :whistle
So there are no heated seats, no sat nav, partly electrically adjustable seats, all to a price point. She's had new air sus bags, ball joints, exhaust, microswitch in passenger door and routine maintenance in the 5 or so years I've had her. Now on 80k miles.
I believe the P38 came in with the M plate.
My N plate RRC hasn't had much more than the P38 list above, in the 26 years I've had it - and certainly no major air-sus or electronic problems.
And that's despite having all the gizmos like heated electrically adjustable (and memory) seats, heated electric door mirrors, electric sunroof (that has yet to leak!), cruise control control, air con etc.
As for looks, I don't think they ever again achieved the "timeless" beauty of the original Classic.
It isn't all wonderful though.
You really do have to keep on top of corrosion, and be prepared to repair if necessary.
The cost will usually be repaid in its appreciating value.
Agree with Craig that the LSE was an interesting vehicle, and probably very rare now in decent condition.
I just wish I'd bought a CSK back in the day when people turned up their noses at the "old style" Range Rover, and prices were on the floor. :'(
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Nailing my colours to the mast here - I've had 39 Range Rovers. 34 of them were Classics, one was a 10MY Range Rover Sport (new) and the last 4 were P38s. Aside from the first 3 P38s being diesel autos and therefore unable to pull the skin off a rice pudding without a chip upgrade, all performed admirably. I'm currently driving a W reg P38 loaned to me by a friend. Its only done 72,000 miles, its diesel and a manual. It is an absolute joy to drive and I never thought I'd be saying that about a P38A...
The general view at LR when we built that car was that we never got it quite right. Using a panhard rod on the back made for some bizarre handling characteristics doing high speed manoeuvres as the police regularly found out. Had it had a Watts Linkage like the Discovery 2, I think it would have been a far more stable and formidable vehicle. Unfortunately, the BMW bean counters stopped that game.
This one has no rust on the chassis or body. The ludicrous thing is that as a diesel manual, its still pretty much worthless.
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Hmm. I know beauty is in the eye of the beholder, but in my eye the P38A has not become that much more beautiful with age. :whistle
I believe the P38 came in with the M plate.
My N plate RRC hasn't had much more than the P38 list above, in the 26 years I've had it - and certainly no major air-sus or electronic problems.
And that's despite having all the gizmos like heated electrically adjustable (and memory) seats, heated electric door mirrors, electric sunroof (that has yet to leak!), cruise control control, air con etc.
As for looks, I don't think they ever again achieved the "timeless" beauty of the original Classic.
It isn't all wonderful though.
You really do have to keep on top of corrosion, and be prepared to repair if necessary.
The cost will usually be repaid in its appreciating value.
Agree with Craig that the LSE was an interesting vehicle, and probably very rare now in decent condition.
I just wish I'd bought a CSK back in the day when people turned up their noses at the "old style" Range Rover, and prices were on the floor. :'(
I flirted with buying an RRC a couple of years ago. One of my favourite cars since owning the Dinky police version back in the day. Clearly the market has gone a bit mad in recent years, so it'll have to remain a dream. All this talk of P38s and the 2 gorgeous examples shown has me lusting after that unloved sister.
I'd love to hear more of your experiences at the time diffwhine - the history of why each product or organisation made certain catastrophic choices is always interesting.
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Hmm. I know beauty is in the eye of the beholder, but in my eye the P38A has not become that much more beautiful with age. :whistle
I believe the P38 came in with the M plate.
My N plate RRC hasn't had much more than the P38 list above, in the 26 years I've had it - and certainly no major air-sus or electronic problems.
And that's despite having all the gizmos like heated electrically adjustable (and memory) seats, heated electric door mirrors, electric sunroof (that has yet to leak!), cruise control control, air con etc.
As for looks, I don't think they ever again achieved the "timeless" beauty of the original Classic.
It isn't all wonderful though.
You really do have to keep on top of corrosion, and be prepared to repair if necessary.
The cost will usually be repaid in its appreciating value.
Agree with Craig that the LSE was an interesting vehicle, and probably very rare now in decent condition.
I just wish I'd bought a CSK back in the day when people turned up their noses at the "old style" Range Rover, and prices were on the floor. :'(
I have hankered after a rrc, for a very long time. That was almost certainly made an impossibility when they began to form the basis of a gold rush.
I have only ever driven ancient variants with retro fitted Perkins engines. The ride comfort, and turning circle were a revelation coming from a series driver.
P38a I ridden in and found the ride slightly choppy in comparison, most likely due to air suspension gremlins, although comments on suspension link set ups could account for that. How did the wheelbase compare?
Re LSE I looked at one that was relatively young but had ended up as unwanted hide it round the back trade in at a vw main agent. It was a kind of metallic brown, I remember remarking on the seat leather and carpet being noticeably more opulent than a regular range topping vogue se.
I talked myself out of taking the plunge due to the villainous mpg and the long wheelbase and other part availability down the line. I think the interior came from a place other than the land rover trim shop? It was so nice.
I looked at few csk's at the same time, and they were pretty rotten at 5yrs old! Just rot with a chrome bumper.
There will for me only ever be one shape, and its is the original. Even if its rotten.
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The P38 is on a 108" wheelbase. Same as the LSE Range Rover which was 108" and off course the normal Range Rover was 100"
I think they tested a few systems on the LSE that ended up on the P38 such as the air suspension which is identical except the air compressor and valve block is under the bonnet on a P38 and under the floor on the classic. The way they achieved the stretch was quite crude though. The chassis was a standard one cut in half with U shape gusset plates welded to both sides. The rear doors were the same, cut normal doors with plates welded in and a new door skin fitted. I seem to recall the rear window winder mechanism also had welded in extensions and the exhaust pipe just got an additional 8" spacer piece to fit behind the centre box. They did at least make a bespoke rear propshaft.
The LSE did have unique wood trim in it. I think it was Italian Poplar trees they cut down for that model. Mine was a black body colour, brown carpets and brown leather interior. Mine was the earlier style dash panel as well before they went "Soft-dash" and fitted airbags into them.
I would still love another LSE one day but that would be another restoration project and I doubt I'll get the chance to do another one after the series one. There is something about them having the rear door longer than the front door!
Craig.
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The P38A came out for 1995 Model Year, but were actually released in 1994, so there re some L registration ones about. I know because I had one!
I have K plate RRC LSE which is sitting in London waiting for a proper rebuild. It isn't actually that rusty having been a town car and garaged for much of its life. We would consider getting shot of it, so if anybody is thinking of doing an LSE, if this one suits the bill, PM me and we can talk turkey. No rush to sell it though and I know what its worth...
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Craig it seems the LSE was one expensive cut and shut factory style.
Your lse pic has reminded me that the wheels were specific to the model too, the the rest of the rr having the three slot alloys.
The p38 lost the the wheelbase increase due to its chunkier appearance. It was a surprise to find it the same as the lse.
I know dunlop did the bags and bits for the air suspension.
The last lse I saw in the flesh had been absolutely trashed, just the windscreen remained.
Roof chopped for shooting and an isuzu engine lashed in. It was a travesty.
I have also seen L322 getting weighed in and broken as running cost and repairs outstrip value at the time as they have been run on a shoestring and thrashed.
Hard to believe that they have been about for 20+ years.
Does anyone recall that 2 door 'olympic' from mid 80's, a csk ahead of its time.
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I remember the Olympic. Wasn't it around D / E Reg time? I always felt it was a bit of a lash up, but then that's my era at LR, so everything was a lashup...
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Re Olympic
Red stripe, and recaro seats and livened up engine
Not sure if it was a low run production or a concept pre production.
2 door shell when they had ended aside from export market.
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Olympic was a concept, very similar to the Kestrel. That was a lovely thing, I had the pleasure of owning it for a while - experimental 3.9 (I believe a John Eales one but not certain), rev’ed much better than production 3.9s. The Kestrel was Red with Recaro interior - very much one I should have kept
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Approx ten years ago…
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So how many Olympic were made in total.
The one I recall was a metallic brown bordering on black.
It was featured and in lro and I did see it or one like it in staffordshire moorlands/peak district area.
Was the kestrel a factory vehicle too?
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Three in total from memory, one destroyed, one Olympic and one Kestrel.
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Heritage magazine!!! it would be cheaper to join the Series 2 club :gren_hinges :brakes
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I found this in Smith's this morning. It's basically 64 pages of not a lot for £6.99. The Lightweight article is identical to the one featured in the latest issue of The Landy which I receive when I order from Dingocroft.
There are no technical items, Q&A or anything of real interest. It's definitely not worth the high price and I for one won't be buying it. It's printed on glossy paper which accounts for the high price. I pay £3.99 per month for LRM which is much better value.
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I found this in Smith's this morning. It's basically 64 pages of not a lot for £6.99. The Lightweight article is identical to the one featured in the latest issue of The Landy which I receive when I order from Dingocroft.
There are no technical items, Q&A or anything of real interest. It's definitely not worth the high price and I for one won't be buying it. It's printed on glossy paper which accounts for the high price. I pay £3.99 per month for LRM which is much better value.
Yes I had a similar experience a couple of days ago - saw and skimmed through a copy in Smiths. Not something I'll do again. The buyers' guide had a photo of a Series II I think for the Series III. Three lifestyle 'why I bought an LR' articles with no technical details. Is this a start-up by former LRO staff? Just poor.
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I don't think it's been dreamt up by ex LRO staff. The editor is one Alan Kidd and I've no knowledge of him in the Land Rover world.
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Alan Kidd has been around the Landrover and 4x4 world for many years. From memory he was a contributor and possibly editor at some time of Landrover World mag and probably other 4x4 mags prior to that.
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Alan Kidd has been around the Landrover and 4x4 world for many years. From memory he was a contributor and possibly editor at some time of Landrover World mag and probably other 4x4 mags prior to that.
Correct, he was editor of LRW at one point
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Never read LRW.
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You didn’t miss anything!