S2C Forum Archives
Main Section => Welcome to our virtual Pub Meeting ... => Topic started by: LN11AAB498A on June 27, 2023, 04:49:04 PM
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If you thought it couldn`t get any worse, now we`re told ....
"Electric cars cause twice as much stress to roads as petrol equivalents, which could increase the number of potholes amid a growing crisis in Britain, according to a survey. A study led by the University of Leeds found the average electric car puts 2.24 times more stress on roads than a similar petrol vehicle - and 1.95 more than a diesel............ experts warned multi-storey car parks could be at risk of damage or even collapsing due to the weight of electric vehicles."
https://www.thisismoney.co.uk/money/electriccars/article-12237529/Britains-pothole-crisis-worse-electric-cars.html
And if EV cars are doing that, how much more damage must EV lorries & buses be doing :agh
(Controversy Alert) :bright-idea :bright-idea Charge a proportionate level of VED on all EV`s and use it to pay for the damage they cause :first
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Agree and fuel duty must be levied on electricity used to charge them. At a domestic property a separate meter would be installed at the owner's expense and fuel duty added on to the bill.
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I think this "study" should be read with a dose of salt handy.
There's a huge amount of FUD being published now that's are demonising EVs, and it's not hard to be cynical about the oil industry funding such things.
'd encourage anyone reading such articles to put on a pair of sceptical spectacles before reading any article about electric vehicles that are strongly negative, and those that are strongly positive. If you bother to read them at all. Every publication is desparate for readers so rarely check sources these days - proper journalism is almost dead. The Telegraph is no longer a particularly trustable source of information and is often very biased to the right.
The truth is likely somewhere in the middle, as with most things. EV's will probably attract some taxation in the near future once the encouragement bubble runs out of air.
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All VED zero rated vehicles except historic will pay VED from 1/4/2025 including all electric things and it's retrospective.
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The telegraph has never been a trustworthy source of info! (better than the mail, though!!)
Interesting points about the weight though. However, unless newly constructed (or within the last few years) chances are that most are going to get to the end of their design life before they get full of EVs
The extra wear and tear on the roads might well be offset by the reduction in oil leaks
I wonder what the average / mean life span of an EV is predicted to be. If you look round scrappers nowadays, the vast majority have been scrapped because the electronic chips have reached the end of their life cycle, rather than tinworm, and therefore are not economic to repair
I am still of the opinion that a 20 year old vehicle that can still be repaired without removing the body, and which doesn't have all the "too clever by far" electronics in it, is more sustainable than an EV. But, as long as there are children to mine lithium and the propaganda keeps being written and believed folk will buy them and keep the shareholders happy.
Not for me.
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Fossil fuels will be around for a long time yet.
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I think this "study" should be read with a dose of salt handy.
There's a huge amount of FUD being published now that's are demonising EVs, and it's not hard to be cynical about the oil industry funding such things.
'd encourage anyone reading such articles to put on a pair of sceptical spectacles before reading any article about electric vehicles that are strongly negative, and those that are strongly positive. If you bother to read them at all. Every publication is desparate for readers so rarely check sources these days - proper journalism is almost dead. The Telegraph is no longer a particularly trustable source of information and is often very biased to the right.
The truth is likely somewhere in the middle, as with most things. EV's will probably attract some taxation in the near future once the encouragement bubble runs out of air.
Hi dartymoor,
The oil industry doesn`t need to fund anything in a vane attempt to keep the petrol flowing, they have already lost that battle. The question is, what will replace it.
Being naturally sceptical I don`t believe all the political guff that this current kind of EV is going to save the world.
This study has given its verdict and common sense would support the idea that significant extra weight (roughly twice as heavy as standard models) will have a negative impact on tarmac and high-rise structures. Now I`m not trying to appear clever, this hadn`t occurred to me before reading the study.
The University of Leeds completed the study, and using "the 'fourth power formula' - a method adopted by highways engineers and researchers to assess damage on road surfaces caused by heavy vehicles. It reportedly means that if weight on a vehicle's axle is doubled, it can cause 16 times the amount of damage to a road", (and of course I understood every word :pinocchio)
I don`t accept the premise that truth must always be somewhere in the middle, why shouldn't the truth about EVs, potholes & multi-storey car parks be exactly as we have read it :tiphat
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What a very poor article. Think I would prefer to read the original report than someone’s interpretation of the report. And perhaps we should have a bash electric cars section on this website forum so people air their anger about other cars and keep it to themselves. I want to read about our series 2’s …..ok and series 3’s. My evil BMW i3 all electric weighs 1195kg what do our series 2's weigh and we don't pay tax and our vehicles sip petrol and diesel don't they….and they don't leak on the tarmac softening it wherever they rest.
Not sure the roads have ever been properly repaired ever since there was some sort of banking crisis, something to do with Iceland……I think our local council lost something like 12million with that one from memory. So we are running, in many places on repairs of repairs. All our cars have got heavier and wider. I have just been running through the weights of the more popular SUVs and car’s generally and then compared them with the cars of the '60's and 70's a mk2 escort weighed only 880kg. From the 80's Mk1 930kg but latest Golf 1400kg with more power and greater braking capacity.
Having said and annoyed by the bashing electric cars get on here by some……..it would seem sensible to tax cars on their weight because of the damage they do to our road system whether they are electric or ICE driven vehicles.
Perhaps vehicles over a certain weight should have an extra axle. Clearly power from the drivetrain also has an effect so all performance vehicles should be taxed accordingly…
I am very pleased that huge improvements have been made with emissions from cars, it's a pleasure to do my job these days which for part of it requires me for nearly an hour a day to be in close proximity to vehicles opening their doors to let out 'customers' and guiding them to sensible places to park. Over 8 years the difference has been remarkable and I now no longer have a cough at the end of each session. Just think if you lived in a city by a busy main road….I would be begging for people to go electric to save my and my children’s health. Yes of course there is tyre dust and a whole lot of other things people will now dig out to diss electric vehicles……but it's a good start.
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The carpark collapse was in New York and part of the reason given was the extra weight of battery powered vehicles.
Something else that needs looking into before we are forced into electric vehicles.
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Whether you like EVs or not physics is physics, heavier vehicles with the same number of axles do more damage than light. That’s why 4 wheel artic lorries used to pay more tax than 6 wheel. (I think they still do)
Part of a bigger picture for sure, but when comparing like for like (as opposed to comparing a 4x4 to a little hatchback) the EV will be heavier and will do more damage to the road.
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Are you sure the New York collapse was to do with Ev's……I’m not sure anything caught fire….so how can it have been!
Joking aside it is the responsibility of every property owner to check their condition of their structures and use accordingly. If this is the same collapse I read about it seemed to report that there were no recent building permits and it was built back in the 1920’s. I wonder how many multi-storey car parks are suffering from the emotive phrase 'concrete cancer' over here let alone having been designed for lighter vehicles. And I suppose we have the irony that cities are creating clean air zones encouraging ev's into the cities and small range electric vehicles don't have the range to get there and back without charging and there is no charging ….so the big ones have to find somewhere to park.
Listen I'm not blind and forgive me for getting angry at the anti ev opportunity with some on here….I'm really disappointed that electric cars have solved the range issue by getting so large. There is a place for electric cars esp in cities and for short journeys so let’s not throw them all out…and yes I'd be happy to pay for road tax…I use the roads I'm happy to pay…..long distance journeys are still best done by diesel where it properly warms up and you're out of the cities. Reducing Co2 is still important….Volvo went down the diesel hybrid rather than petrol hybrid……that seemed to make sense esp with the short shelf life of petrol and the need to reduce co2 emissions……but of course we know particulates harm people.
I'm shocked at the weight of 4x4'’s these days whatever their motive force is….I'd like to understand why from someone who knows about these things. Any automotive engineers on here.
I'm with Colin Chapman….simplify and add lightness Long live the Series 2
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I'm shocked at the weight of 4x4'’s these days whatever their motive force is….I'd like to understand why from someone who knows about these things. Any automotive engineers on here.
That's pretty evident I would have said - crash resistance and accessories. Crash resistance being the main one. Lots of steel is needed.
Chris.
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...................... forgive me for getting angry at the anti ev opportunity with some on here… I'm shocked at the weight of 4x4'’s ......I'm with Colin Chapman….simplify and add lightness ....
Hello MrTDiy :tiphat
I'm puzzled that you are "angry" and "annoyed "at "the anti ev opportunity with some on here" and you would like us to keep our views "to themselves". I`m sorry that you seem to be taking it as a personal assault. Thankfully this Virtual Pub Meeting is for anything, not just Series 2 stuff.
As for me, I have not been bashing electric cars, I am not against cars with electric motors, I am against electric batteries.
I firmly believe that one day a Hydrogen power-cell will power an electric motor and be mainstream, now that's where the money should be going, not these nasty batteries. Edit: I realize this is already on the road e.g. JCB, I was thinking about mass production.
You don`t need to look at the weights of SUVs. The report had compared vehicles of equal size when it said - "Electric cars, which are roughly twice as heavy as standard models" e.g. a Mini EV would be roughly twice as heavy as a Mini with ICE. Ironically you've quoted this - "I'm with Colin Chapman….simplify and add lightness". Well you can hardly say that of EVs
If we, and judging by this forum that is the majority, have been wrong when we talk about the massive opencast Lithium mines, how future generations will have to deal with old toxic batteries, about the problems of finding charging points, finding one that works, of having to download an App just to pay for the electric, about home charging if you don`t have private parking, about public money spent on subsidising these vehicle costs, if you believe that is all fiction, then you're free to put us right. Come back with facts that prove this is all wrong. Opinions are of course a very different matter and we are all entitled to have them.
I promise I won`t be angry with you, it`s the discussion, friendly disagreement, enlightenment of fact over fiction. Free speech and not personal attack, I hope I never do that :tiphat
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As a civil engineer working in highways for 4 decades plus, the advent of the super single wheel which replaced the double wheel axle, caused a huge amount of damage to roads
Manifests itself in lane 1 ruts on motorways fairly well.
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What about volume of traffic?
Certainly my weekly visits to the city for work are a lot less busy than before Covid. I now WFH 4 days a week, and at least Exeter's traffic is a lot less suggesting that overall frequency has not regained anything like the levels of 2019 when I would often be stuck in traffic jams to the point I adjusted my hours to avoid the peaks.
Fewer trips means less wear on the roads, so heavier cars (which are heavier anyway due to safety and luxury improvements) are offset by not as many of them.
(Agree about the HGV damage from the Super single, AlexB. See the roads around John o Groats for potholes. A local told me that was because the lorries use the Gills ferry because it's cheaper than Northlink, but those roads get far less maintenance)
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Volume of traffic ?
Absolutely a guessing game
No-won could foresee the changing in working patterns
However, in theory, the days of "predict and provide" are long gone. Roads aren't built / improved (generally) to accommodate increased traffic, there are other reasons; safety, pollution and in certain cases, Planning. - That's where the "in theory " bit falls down, as Gov't policy isn't about a cleaner more healthy world, it's about who shouts / pays more.
Take the 60mph speed limit round Sheffield. As it's HGV's that cause most of the NOX and PM10 / 2.5 the speed limit, to reduce pollution, should be lower than the HGV speed - it isn't, so what is the point.
Even a 50 mph limit doesn't do a fat lot. When Tinsley Viaduct was restricted to 50mph (as it was full of men welding it back together) for 2 years, the air quality monitors showed sod all difference from before and after.
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Hi,
When I leave our estate, which was built in the mid-1980s, and join Wattling Street, there is a big sign announcing 3000 NEW HOMES.
Announcement? Maybe it's a warning!
602
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There's a 'posh' neighbourhood near me that keeps having recurring potholes - the Facebook page talks of little else. We all thought it was the council deliberately doing a half-*&%^$ job, wink-wink, but maybe it's the sheer volume of Teslas and EV SUVs.
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Hi,
When I leave our estate, which was built in the mid-1980s, and join Wattling Street, there is a big sign announcing 3000 NEW HOMES.
Announcement? Maybe it's a warning!
602
doing the same here on 300+ acres soon enough, if they can shove the plans through anyway, which they will in the end no doubt.
meanwhile roads haven't been upgraded for the past 40 years or more, no new hospitals, no new doctors, no new schools.
sewage works will be the same as they were in the 1800s no doubt, as they just got in trouble for dumping sewage in the rivers here, almost 10k reported incidents of it in a year...
last reservoir built 30+ years ago, yet wondering why water shortages happen every year...so on and so on
they wonder why the system is failing, yet no care or thought seems to go into it.
its why the EV thing is hit and miss for me, good idea on paper, but isn't thought out at all in the long term it appears, as usual though it seems.
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Everything this country does is a knee jerk reaction and never thought through properly. Common sense is severely lacking.
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it's to do with the shelf life of politicians
3 or 5 years isn't enough to undo the previous regime's policies and implement new ones and win votes to stay in power
Although I wonder what it would take to get the UK on it's feet and banging on the doors at Whitehall nowadays
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Are you sure the New York collapse was to do with Ev's……I’m not sure anything caught fire….so how can it have been!
Joking aside it is the responsibility of every property owner to check their condition of their structures and use accordingly. If this is the same collapse I read about it seemed to report that there were no recent building permits and it was built back in the 1920’s. I wonder how many multi-storey car parks are suffering from the emotive phrase 'concrete cancer' over here let alone having been designed for lighter vehicles. And I suppose we have the irony that cities are creating clean air zones encouraging ev's into the cities and small range electric vehicles don't have the range to get there and back without charging and there is no charging ….so the big ones have to find somewhere to park.
Listen I'm not blind and forgive me for getting angry at the anti ev opportunity with some on here….I'm really disappointed that electric cars have solved the range issue by getting so large. There is a place for electric cars esp in cities and for short journeys so let’s not throw them all out…and yes I'd be happy to pay for road tax…I use the roads I'm happy to pay…..long distance journeys are still best done by diesel where it properly warms up and you're out of the cities. Reducing Co2 is still important….Volvo went down the diesel hybrid rather than petrol hybrid……that seemed to make sense esp with the short shelf life of petrol and the need to reduce co2 emissions……but of course we know particulates harm people.
I'm shocked at the weight of 4x4'’s these days whatever their motive force is….I'd like to understand why from someone who knows about these things. Any automotive engineers on here.
I'm with Colin Chapman….simplify and add lightness Long live the Series 2
I don't think any fire was involved.
From the short piece I read the 'blame' was put upon an old building not designed for the weight of modern vehicles.
Ev's where singled out due to their extra weight. ???
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Last year I was looking into buying a new car and had occasion to read the Kia 7 year warrenty. It was very interesting, when you got to the bottom, to discover the 7years did not apply to a EV batteries only 2 years.That I thought spoke volumns.
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Good Morning All,
You would think that either the Daily Fail or the FF industry, or possibly both, was sponsoring this thread followed by never let the facts get in the way of a good whinge about EV's.
EV batteries will, in many cases, outlive the vehicles they were fitted to. There are already plans and companies turning UBG EV battery packs in to send use storage where space is less critical i.e home storage type solutions.
There are such as Tesla's out there that have done 250k miles on their original battery although granted, they won't have the same capacity as when new.
Yes EV's are heavier than their ICE counterparts but battery efficiencies are continuing to improve - bear in mind the 51kWh battery in a Zoe50 occupies precisely the same space as the predecessors' 40kWh job.
A big part of the weight issue with EV's is dealing with range anxiety for ICE obsessed drivers. Everybody has gotten so used to driving large distances in ICE vehicles and expect to be able to do the same in EV's. This type of thinking needs to change. It is the current mentality relating to people thinking they can do what they want as they have in the past - it is all our behaviours in said past that has helped bring climate change to where it is now.
Remember the phrase there is no such thing as a 'free lunch'? Planet Earth is calling it its marker.
Regards
Richard
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More or less looked at the original article, I think the top 3 vehicles listed in the paper were American including a Hummer - their figure came out at 17% rather than 33% when considering the European marked and noted that non-electric cars have been getting heavier for decdes too.
https://twitter.com/BBCMoreOrLess/status/1669357019839733765
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Good Morning All,
You would think that either the Daily Fail or the FF industry, or possibly both, was sponsoring this thread followed by never let the facts get in the way of a good whinge about EV's.
EV batteries will, in many cases, outlive the vehicles they were fitted to. There are already plans and companies turning UBG EV battery packs in to send use storage where space is less critical i.e home storage type solutions.
There are such as Tesla's out there that have done 250k miles on their original battery although granted, they won't have the same capacity as when new.
Yes EV's are heavier than their ICE counterparts but battery efficiencies are continuing to improve - bear in mind the 51kWh battery in a Zoe50 occupies precisely the same space as the predecessors' 40kWh job.
A big part of the weight issue with EV's is dealing with range anxiety for ICE obsessed drivers. Everybody has gotten so used to driving large distances in ICE vehicles and expect to be able to do the same in EV's. This type of thinking needs to change. It is the current mentality relating to people thinking they can do what they want as they have in the past - it is all our behaviours in said past that has helped bring climate change to where it is now.
Remember the phrase there is no such thing as a 'free lunch'? Planet Earth is calling it its marker.
Regards
Richard
Filling our roads with appalling, inefficient, heavy, road damaging, child labour reliant, toxic chemical consuming, fast depreciating and expensive EVs will do less than nothing to appease Planet Earth I'm afraid. High status signalling greenwash.
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Why is it, in this age of Woke, that anyone daring to speak out against these minority driven issues, are we dismissed and accused of being a whinger, ICE obsessed, bashing EV etc. Not one supporter of these toxic batteries has yet come out to defend the environmental damaging monstrous Lithium opencast mines, which are reportedly/allegedly employing children. And even if they weren't, that would still not excuse them.
I`m waiting for the day when someone on here invents a name to call us non believers, and when that happens, just like the word racist, it`ll probably end in IST
Rather than put up facts to disprove my comments and the comments of others on this thread, its being suggested that I/we must be in the pay of The Daily Mail or maybe some diabolical secret section of the oil industry, hogwash.
And if that wasn`t enough hogwash for you, we are now accused of being the problem, because Richard believes - "A big part of the weight issue with EV's is dealing with range anxiety for ICE obsessed drivers.
Range, RANGE - Quite frankly my dear, I couldn`t give a damn.
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Why is it, in this age of Woke, that anyone daring to speak out against these minority driven issues, are we dismissed and accused of being a whinger, ICE obsessed, bashing EV etc. Not one supporter of these toxic batteries has yet come out to defend the environmental damaging monstrous Lithium opencast mines, which are reportedly/allegedly employing children. And even if they weren't, that would still not excuse them.
I`m waiting for the day when someone on here invents a name to call us non believers, and when that happens, just like the word racist, it`ll probably end in IST
Rather than put up facts to disprove my comments and the comments of others on this thread, its being suggested that I/we must be in the pay of The Daily Mail or maybe some diabolical secret section of the oil industry, hogwash.
And if that wasn`t enough hogwash for you, we are now accused of being the problem, because Richard believes - "A big part of the weight issue with EV's is dealing with range anxiety for ICE obsessed drivers.
Range, RANGE - Quite frankly my dear, I couldn`t give a damn.
Wait, you mean you're not been getting the Big Oil cheques we've been sending? :stars
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I'm getting fed up with this :cactus
This topic is going nowhere.
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"They" used to control the population through religion. When that didnt work any more, it was money. Now it appears to be "greening". We are being brainwashed by those (big business, governments etc) who would like to control us all once more. If we dont believe all the hype, we are being made out as inferior beings. Vested interests are leading us down a technological cul-de-sac. (remember Betamax, far superior technology to VHS, but killed of by big business to safeguard their profits). Will they do the same to Hydrogen, which long term has to be the way forward.
Why is it "greener" to mine and refine lithium rather than coal or oil? I hear they are wanting to extract the stuff in Cornwall now.
I would like to see the calculations that prove EV's are better for the environment taking everything into account. energy used in production, disposal and running of vehicle, mineral extraction, battery production, road wear, provision of charging points etc etc).
The real problem, that no government is prepared to tackle, is the rise in world population. Otherwise we are just running faster and faster to stand still.
And no, I dont read the Daily Mail either.
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My wife reads the Daily Mail, but only for a laugh. I find it very
absorbing absorbent so it does have some uses - especially these days when the print is fixed properly...
I watched an interesting Panorama programme on EVs the other day. You can't present a full story or argument in half an hour or whatever it was, but it did present some of the facts in a balanced way. I've only driven one full EV and have to say that I was really impressed (the Subaru Solterra). I would happily have one. I like the balance of hybrid vehicles and do think they have a very useful interim place in all this.
Efficiencies improve all the time. If not, I'd be typing this on a Word Processor and calling people with my Motorola brick.
I like being a Luddite, but we have to do something and if EVs are the lesser of multiple evils, bring them on I say.
That's probably seen me excommunicated for heresy, but :neener
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"Green" = "Naive." (and an excuse to jack prices sky high).
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Hi,
In the mid-1980s, a car enthusiast magazine (probably CAR & CONVERSION , possibly HOT CAR), did an article about a home-brewed, battery powered, Triumph Herald, that cost the equivalent of doing 50mpg on petrol, driving in and out of London every day.
I wish I could remember the finer details.
I have identified a source of suitable electric motors ... 40hp and retailing at circa £5.000 to buy. I think that two S1 80" Land Rovers drove overland, to Singapore (read " FIRST OVERLAND"), towing laden trailers, and full of students, with 46bhp 1600cc engines, so 40hp should be enough for a daily commute to the office.
602
PS, I read FIRST OVERLAND in 1960ish, lying on my RAF bed, at RAF Sharjah.
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Meanwhile back at the ranch. I recently had to replace both front tyres on one of my vans due to pothole damage. The roads here are an absolute disgrace. Mainly in my opinion because the council are beyond useless.
This thread has got me thinking though. Why do I run electric vehicles at work?
Do I care about the planet? Of course I do, but that's not the reason. Am I naive? I like to think not. I do think that when 99.9% of the world's cars are fully electric and all the ICE cars have been scrapped that we will then all be forced to go down another technological route (hydrogen?). Why? To keep people in jobs, to keep factories making something, to keep the world going round. If that is correct, then we are all being brainwashed, but that's not why I buy electric. Is it because I want to lower my carbon footprint and want to be seen to do so? No, however I do now have to monitor how many tons of carbon dioxide my operation emits and my fossil fuel consumption if I want to continue to supply certain customers. Is it because I like new technology? And like doing things differently from the norm? Well yes, but that's not the main reason.
The main reason is of course cost. Ironically, the two tyres I had to replace were on the front of an all electric van. That is the only cost I have incurred in two years of ownership. Of course it has depreciated, but so would one with an engine. Initial cost is not much more either when grants and incentives are taken into consideration. Insurance is no different. Charging costs nothing either because of the solar /battery set up at work. Servicing? Zero cost. Licence - nil £. I'm currently saving circa £6k a year versus a van with an engine. They literally cost me nothing to run them. I ordered 2 lwb high roof 4.25 ton e-Transits last Friday to replace 2 large diesel vans. With all the handouts etc that are available, I would have been daft not to buy electric.
Bring on electric. ICE RIP.
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You can drive as many electric vehicles as you want, but if we don't stop humans breeding like
rabbits I mean like humans, then we don't have a prayer.
Or maybe, a prayer is all we do have....
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:monk
We're all doomed I tell you! Dooooomed!
:rivet
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You can drive as many electric vehicles as you want, but if we don't stop humans breeding like rabbits I mean like humans, then we don't have a prayer.
Or maybe, a prayer is all we do have....
Nah, other way around. We'll be worrying FAR more about the effects of the depopulation bomb soon enough.
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Hi,
Has anybody here read ENDER'S GAME ... a Sci-Fi novel, which I read about 50 years ago.
Ender was a "Third", when all other families were limited to 2 children. I don't think that was stressed in the film of the same name.
There are societies that regard large families as desirable. Lots of off-spring to support the "Wrinklies" in their old age. Who can blame them?
I have read that the "Black Death" (plague) reduced the number of humans, thereby re-distributing and localising, Wealth. Unfortunately, it's only the future generations who feel the benefit of that.
If Mankind does not sort the problem, then Mother Nature will.
The 602 Solution? Financial benefits, £££££, for those who volunteer for "The Snip", with the proviso that it must be spent within 2 years.
602
602
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The 602 Solution? Financial benefits, £££££, for those who volunteer for "The Snip", with the proviso that it must be spent within 2 years.
Or non-child benefit replacing child benefit payments.
After all, the children you don't have will not need schools, houses, doctors, cars, "cheap" flights etc...
And employers will have to get a lot smarter, rather than endlessly importing cheap labour. :whistle
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Agree with all the above points concerning over population, no easy solutions there :stars
As to the condition of the roads, near where I live they have been building away merrily in Burnham-on-Crouch with hundreds of new houses, for anyone who knows Burnham it is a two road town being tucked away on the Dengie Hundred. Those two roads are taking a real pounding now from extra cars for the residents and from the construction vehicles themselves, all the roads around here are on London Clay and that has moved a lot in the last couple of years hence potholes and undulations.
It is a nightmare situation for the Local Authorities with less money from central government along with lots of new government policy decisions that are passed out to local authority but have no extra money to implement them.
Then there is the problem of when exactly the works can be done as most works will require closure of the road, not easy and very unpopular... you cannot win! ???
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The over population problem is, as Mr Thomas correctly states, not a problem....the human race in most regions of the planet is currently not producing enough offspring to even keep the numbers stable....we are going to shrink globally as a populace in fairly short order.
As for the electric cars, there will never be as many EVs as there are ICE motors in the world, at least not while we still rely on lithium for the main ingredient of the batteries; it has been worked out that even if we could mine all of the world's lithium and use it for EV batteries there would only be enough to produce vehicles for less than 1/4 of the number of ICE vehicles at present....but don't worry folks, once the Agenda 2030 and WEF plans for 2050 are all in place we'll all be living in lovely 15 minute cities, own nothing and be happy....
.....what could possibly go wrong?
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I would like to see the calculations that prove EV's are better for the environment taking everything into account. energy used in production, disposal and running of vehicle, mineral extraction, battery production, road wear, provision of charging points etc etc).
The real problem, that no government is prepared to tackle, is the rise in world population. Otherwise we are just running faster and faster to stand still.
And no, I dont read the Daily Mail either.
The calculations are out there if you choose to look - Google is your friend. Try - https://www.iea.org/data-and-statistics/charts/comparative-life-cycle-greenhouse-gas-emissions-of-a-mid-size-bev-and-ice-vehicle (https://www.iea.org/data-and-statistics/charts/comparative-life-cycle-greenhouse-gas-emissions-of-a-mid-size-bev-and-ice-vehicle)
One of the things a number of such articles have previously failed to include is the cost of extracting and transporting the crude oil from wherever to the refineries in the first place with all the attendant emissions.
The cobalt content of newer EV batteries is being reduced which is more than can be said for the oil refining industry which keeps remarkably quiet about how much cobalt it uses. Lithium content of a 2020 battery was around 3.2% but I believe is less in a newer LFP battery.
Interestingly while a lot of people seem fixated on there not being enough lithium to go around I read that competition between agriculture and the EV battery demand for phosphorus is another looming challenge.
Regards
Richard
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Hi,
I understand that in periods of RECESSION, the governments (little G) have a policy of organising public works, in order to keep the population busy.
In MK, this seems to involve digging up the roads.
Many yonks ago (perhaps early 1960s, when I spent my evenings in RAF TV lounges), there was an "All Our Yestedays" type program, looking back about 20 years ... but set 50 years in the future, recounting the rioting due to not having sufficient work to do ....
A Union Leader was shouting about having to redecorate his kitchen three times last year, while the bosses always had work available to fill their time.
602
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Used to be that they built things like resovoirs and roads and railways to keep people busy, investing in the future. Now they invent jobs like diversity officers and the like.
There’s a fairly oft repeated forecast that the children born today, half of will grow up to do jobs that haven’t been invented yet. Sounds crazy but 20 years ago were there people making a living being influencers, diversity officers, or even selling and fixing EVs? There will always be a way of keeping everyone busy.
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The future is a pretty scary place, what with riots spreading across France, Putin moving Nuclear weapons into Belarus(?), China, destined to become the world power, spying into our lives, even controlling it, through the very devices we buy from them, and AI doing heaven knows what. (not to belittle the afore mentioned, the following is a light-hearted comment) - And if that wasn`t bad enough, the gentleman's game of cricket now stands accused of bullying sexism & misogyny.
Didn`t Private Frazer once say (many times), "We're doomed we're doomed"
Who else remembers the 1973 film Soylent Green? staring Charlton Heston as Thorn.
To remind me of the detail I looked this up on Wikipedia.
Set in a dystopian (what a good word) futuristic 2022, with dying oceans, overpopulation, water & food shortages and New York with a population of 40 million, the poor were given wafers of highly processed food called Soylent Green.
With rioting in the streets following shortages of this Soylent Green, Thorn secretly boards a waste truck transporting human bodies from the euthanasia center to a waste-disposal plant, where he witnesses human corpses being processed and turned into Soylent Green..... to spread the truth, Thorn, shouting to the surrounding crowd, "Soylent Green is people!
Just gruesome theatre or could it be a foretelling of our own future where, once again, science fiction becomes reality :agh I`ll let you decide while you enjoy your Sunday roast :yum :-X
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Something went wrong, must have been me :doh
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The over population problem is, as Mr Thomas correctly states, not a problem....the human race in most regions of the planet is currently not producing enough offspring to even keep the numbers stable....we are going to shrink globally as a populace in fairly short order.
As for the electric cars, there will never be as many EVs as there are ICE motors in the world, at least not while we still rely on lithium for the main ingredient of the batteries; it has been worked out that even if we could mine all of the world's lithium and use it for EV batteries there would only be enough to produce vehicles for less than 1/4 of the number of ICE vehicles at present....but don't worry folks, once the Agenda 2030 and WEF plans for 2050 are all in place we'll all be living in lovely 15 minute cities, own nothing and be happy....
.....what could possibly go wrong?
A (hairy) man after my own heart. Eat ze bugs peasants!
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Well this is cheerful and uplifting isn't it? :cheers
I'm happy in my own little world of blissful ignorance...
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For "My Diesel Claim" substitute "My EV Claim!!!"
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Just gruesome theatre or could it be a foretelling of our own future where, once again, science fiction becomes reality :agh I`ll let you decide while you enjoy your Sunday roast :yum :-X
....no need to worry about good old Soylent Green, they're presently making fake beef in labs from cow cells and can 3d print fake fish fillets from lab grown fish cells for our future delectation....along with the powdered cricket that they are planning to put in flour the future is looking mighty dystopian to say the least....
I'm so glad I live in the middle of nowhere and can graze on bambi burgers and local veg, far from any ulez zones, cctv's or other such modern annoyances....and my only motors are old Landys that have no electronics to further complicate matters should said dystopia ever surface on this fair isle of ours!
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Hi.
Many yonks ago, I read a sci-fi story where the hero went looking to find the basis for the sole source of synthetic meat.
He found that earlier research had found that the the most suitable meat for humans, was ....
human flesh.
602
PS ... AKA ... "Long pig".
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Looks like someone had the basis for 'Mad Cow Disease' before the Mad Cow !
Soylent Green Green Grass . . .
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Good Evening All,
Very recent announcement regarding semi solid state batteries - https://www.arenaev.com/nio_is_ready_to_offer_worlds_first_semisolid_state_150_kwh_batteries-news-2043.php (https://www.arenaev.com/nio_is_ready_to_offer_worlds_first_semisolid_state_150_kwh_batteries-news-2043.php)
Progress being made all the time to more viable alternatives.
Regards
Richard
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£33,200 for just the battery :first
... and still using lithium!