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Main Section => Welcome to our virtual Pub Meeting ... => Topic started by: Peter Holden on January 11, 2022, 07:33:09 AM
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There are some changes coming at the end of January that will affect us all, quite a bit of it is about pedestrians and cyclists having right of way at junctions plus how blame will be apportioned in an accident.
The problem seems to be that although you can read about it in the press there is no up to date printed or online version of the code. The version on the government web site is way out of date.
The reason for the delay apparently is because they havent sorted out the final wording.
It sounds like the usual government dogs breakfast
Peter
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In a few words, this update is to reflect the different "hierarchy of users" of the highway network
Instead of vehicles being at the top, pedestrians are, followed by cyclists etc.
It was what I was designing highway schemes in town centres for, over 20 years ago, so it's taken a long time making it's way into print !!
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From what I understand: if you are turning left off a main road to a side road and a pedestrian wants to cross the side road you, in the car, have to give the pedestrian priority. There are other rules about giving cyclists more room when passing them and that cyclists have priority over cars and other motorised vehicles.
In a nutshell the most vulnerable (pedestrians, cyclists) are at the top of the pecking order and busses and HGVs are at the bottom. So whos going to be the first walker to argue with a 40 ton artic?
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I dont have a problem with it, in fact I think it is an excellent idea, it is just the way it is being communicated that I find difficult to accept.
The fact that they are introducing something before they have sorted out the wording seems backwards way round and the fact that we have to find out from the press.
Peter
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It was similarly half ar*ed with the Red X legislation; it was there in statute, but the great and the good thought that the only way to get it "out there" was to have it enshrined within the Highway Code (not that anyone reads it anymore) so it took years longer than it should to get folk to understand that driving along a lane with a red X above it was illegal and could kill the poor sods who were working there
The excuse was that the Highway Code is only updated every few years.
I suspect that they had to ruxh to catch the update dates or they would have missed it for another 5? 10 ? years
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The government web site for the highway code and updates isnt even up to date.
What about theose folk learning to drive? How can they find the current rules?
Peter
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Hi,
I always understood that the Highway Code was NOT the law, but the ADVICE therein was assumed to be correct, and could be used against you, if push came to shove.
I understand that there is a country where cyclists have absolute priority ... if a cyclist crashes into you, it's your fault. I assume that we all drive close to that policy already ... you don't hit him just because he's where he shouldn't be.
A mate had an argument with a pedestrian. The pedestrian's argument was ... "It's you that driving the murderous weapon!".
In Malaya, fifty years ago, the Malaysian insurers would not entertain any RTA claim, unless the incident had been reported to the police.
We were advised that, if you had an RTA, out of town, don't stop, drive to the nearest police station. I once watched a Brit/Oz couple on a Honda step-thru, ride OVER a goat that had ambled out in front of them. The bike went airborne. I told Barbara (Sunbeam Talbot 90 on L-plates) to keep going, in case we were regarded as "the next best thing".
602
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I dont have a problem with it, ...
Peter
I do! >:D
Motorcycles have been deliberately ignored, despite considerable representations.
Apparently pedal cyclists are more vulnerable in an collision than a car or van (agreed) but motorcyclists are not. :thud
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In my motorcycling days on an American style T140V Triumph Bonneville I very quickly became aware of drivers that I predicted would pull out in front of me despite riding with the headlight on. I had a scary 100% record but no collisions.
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Recall also the changes to the Trailer testing regs, announced and on the website...that then had to be delayed for weeks as they were not ready to run with it.
Not exactly well organised.
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Changes ... what changes ?
I'm still trying to get to grips with this one :thud
:highway_code
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Hi Alan,
I first looked at the Highway Code, I think, sometime in the late 1940s.
The advice given was simple and straight forward. For instantance, I think there were about six or seven places wher you shouldn't park, and a number of places that you shouldn't overtake. I never tried, but I doubt that it would have been difficult to learn it parrot fashion.
More recently, but still a long time ago, a friend's daughter failed her test. The only reason given, was that she had stopped where the examiner told her ... too close to a dropped kerb.
As far as I'm aware, that is for the LA to enforce, not the police. I wonder if it's mentioned in the Highway Code? ???
I further understand that the LA are able (maybe not willing) to give you permission to park along your own dropped kerb. ???
Google your own LOCAL COUNCIL and DROPPED KERBS. In MK, you may not park with 4 metres of a dropped kerb ... although Google no longer finds it ... maybe since I discussed there only being room for a roller skate between the dropped kerbs in my street.
Doh! There used to be over a 100ft of empty kerb (all mine) along our side boundary .... two cars have parking there there continuously, for the last couple of weeks. >:(
602
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Changes ... what changes ?
There are now statements on inclusivity, slavery and decolonisation.
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Hmmmm
Judging by how things are going I shouldn't think anyone is the least bit concerned about dropped kerbs or even know what they are :stars
It's funny (not) how some people think the stretch of road outside of their property is their own private parking space :shakeinghead
Some councils have wised up to this and charge for parking permits - outside people's homes, much to the owners chargrin.
(a nice little money earner for their vanity projects)
If you think vehicles are parked in a dangerous position - too close to a junction or blocking access to your property then call the police.
If you think the vehicles are not roadworthy, no tax, insurance, MoT call the police.
Otherwise - suck it up.
It's not like in the USA where you are in trouble if you park against a fire hydrant.
Parking on the pavement/footpath is verboten - but plod seems to turn a blind eye to that one.
There's lots of things you are not supposed to on the road.
So many things you should or should not do according to the Highway Code are not observed any more - one wonders what's the point.
I look forward to the day when we all have to drive on the RH side of the road :thud
:plod
Mind how you go ....
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I drive down the middle of the road already!
Just like it said on my old paper licence "tear along dotted line"
I'll get my coat!
Good luck
BW
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You say that, but the other day going round the M25 to Gatwick Airport I see that there are plenty of "middle lane" hoggers.
People don't seem that bothered, they just pass round them on the inside or outside (as they do in the States).
Has anyone been done for Middle Lane hogging ? and how do those numbers compare to those for "undertaking" ???
Won't be long before that's (undertaking) written into the Highway Code.
I did note a few electronic signs - "Keep to the left except when overtaking".
It's all very well adding extra lanes to the motorways, but more lanes just make things more complicated for the average Joe :stars
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One sign people obviously don't understand is "Clearway". A mile or so of road, the A821, was declared a "Clearway" and signed as such along the base of a local hill-walk, Ben A'An. Further signage saying "No Parking on Verges" was added. The car-park at the start of the walk was extended over the winter, more spaces added......but yesterday, a nice sunny morning, there was literally a mile of parked cars in the verges, people walking down the middle of the road as there is no footpath. The issue is that this narrow road is not only used by a lot of cars, its also used by a lot of coaches and Forestry trucks. In the last couple of years its been closed several times by the Police as it was blocked, impassable.... It is only a matter of time before someone is killed or some-one dies on the hill, with Emergency Services unable to reach them. Its already happened to Mountain Rescue vehicles trying to reach a casualty further up Loch Katrine.
To see this amount of people rock up in mid-Jan is worrying, what conditions will be like in July/August I dread to think. This photo was taken half a mile from the carpark...
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If it's not enforced ???
One thing - if access is blocked then fire engines and the like should be allowed by law to batter their way through with no come-back.
That will soon sort the lazy and selfish out :first
They've just put average speed cameras on the main road through our village - it has a 20 mph limit anyway.
I'm lucky as I can belt through the village at 90 mph and turn off to Wittsend Towers before reaching the other camera - result :gatso
The world's gone mad ... :stars
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if you want insane parking, anywhere in the peak district in summer time, never seen so many cars parked anywhere they like.
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One thing - if access is blocked then fire engines and the like should be allowed by law to batter their way through with no come-back.
I think is the case. I've seen double parked cars pushed (rammed) out of the way by fire trucks and Met Police vehicles in London many a time. Double parking used to be very common and very irritating. Maybe the perps learned their lesson!
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Without intending to open the proverbial can of worms, but when it comes to ignoring signs how many on here have driven past signs stating a route is "unsuitable for motor vehicles"?
We have just such a route across our land which is signed as unsuitable due to it being a (very) narrow lane with walls either side, yet still they come on, I've had everything from a chap in a lovely little Austin 7 van to 7 ton wagons and everything in between get as far as the boundary gates, including a 52 seat coach!. This is on a single track lane which leads nowhere.
Tomorrow the contractors begin rebuilding 60 meters of our walls at a cost of 3k, all damaged by those who ignore the unsuitable for motors signs. I'm thinking anti-tank mines will be the next step...
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You say that, but the other day going round the M25 to Gatwick Airport I see that there are plenty of "middle lane" hoggers.
People don't seem that bothered, they just pass round them on the inside or outside (as they do in the States).
Some parts of the M25 have filter lanes something like a mile ahead of the next junction.
If you're not turning off you move over into the next lane.
The result, if you're in a 55 year old series 2a doing about 50mph, is being passed on both sides by cars doing 90+mph.
Quite terrifying really. Especially if it's pouring down with rain, you cant see anything for spray, rain is coming through the closed dash vents and condensation is running down the windscreen, as it was when I drove to the 2017 club rally held at Hole Park in Kent :window
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No one has mentioned cyclists on pavements, cyclists that can't read road signs, cyclists that can't see red stop lights ...
What is the speed limit of a cyclist on a pavement (sidewalk for our American readers)? Zero - because it's illegal?
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Plenty of the blighters on pavements in Wales, the authorities these days even widen the pavements and paint cycle images on the floors.
Speed limits ... give me a break they need to fit cycle speed cameras on pavements as well !!
Forget about cyclists reading and obeying signs and stop lights many ( most ? ) seem unable to or even refuse to use a " bell " :shakeinghead
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Don't get me started on cyclists >:D
In Norwich they have spent millions on purpose built cycle paths :shakeinghead
Does anyone use them ? No, why ???
Personally I would change the law.
1) I would let cycles on pavements - get them off the road, it's safer. I worry for my grandchildren on the road(s).
2) Make the use of a cycle path/lane compulsory (if present).
3) All cycles to be registered, have insurance and cyclists to wear a helmet.
... and I think there's a lot of people who would agree with me.
:RHD
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Without intending to open the proverbial can of worms, but when it comes to ignoring signs how many on here have driven past signs stating a route is "unsuitable for motor vehicles"?
But you are ... Given the detail circumstances you have explained I'd say the sign is unsuitable for the circumstances, BUT there is very precise detail about what compromises legal signage, it can be considered to be a specialist niche knowledge. There is government published literature about it that tells people what is and isn't allowed. Not every one, including professionally employed Highway Engineers, bothers to read the details. Start with Traffic Signs Manual. (https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/traffic-signs-manual) Note that there are 8 Chapters, for your purposes you won't need all of them, but the link takes you to an index of what each Chapter covers.
In Derbyshire a sign saying 'Unsuitable for motors' is read as 'It is a legal road, defined on the Definitive Map and Statement, but we would rather you didn't use it because we will have to maintain it'. In other words it's kidology by the Derbyshire District Council Highways department.
Regards.
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Actually, I don't want cyclists on the pavements. As a pedestrian (and ultimately everyone is a pedestrian - even BMW drivers) I'm seeing pavement space increasingly given over to cyclists. I have nearly been knocked over more than once, a work colleague who was pregnant was knocked flying by a cyclist - they just scarpered, no come back.
And what happened to Zebra crossings? Replaced by light controlled crossings - so pedestrians are reduced to no right of way over other vehicles.
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.... and then we have e-scooters :thud
:blood_bus
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Without intending to open the proverbial can of worms, but when it comes to ignoring signs how many on here have driven past signs stating a route is "unsuitable for motor vehicles"?
Its a while since I lived in England but it certainly used to be the case that routes so signed were legal motor vehicle roads, just not very good ones - so often ideal green-laning country ? You probably need to check with your Council access people what the legal status actually is ?
.....We had three car-loads of young men rock up on our farm track at 10.30 on Friday night, they'd driven up from London for a Party in a nearby holiday home. Could not find it, drove about all over, including coming up here past multiple no entry & locked gate signs, got stuck on wet grass up at my neighbours, trying to turn round. Given that the owner of the holiday property also lives in London and is a parasitic witch, I hope they trashed that as successfully as they messed up our Friday night :-) The pile of rubbish left by her New Year guests is still lying on the roadside.
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Its a while since I lived in England but it certainly used to be the case that routes so signed were legal motor vehicle roads, just not very good ones - so often ideal green-laning country ? You probably need to check with your Council access people what the legal status actually is ?
.....We had three car-loads of young men rock up on our farm track at 10.30 on Friday night, they'd driven up from London for a Party in a nearby holiday home. Could not find it, drove about all over, including coming up here past multiple no entry & locked gate signs, got stuck on wet grass up at my neighbours, trying to turn round. Given that the owner of the holiday property also lives in London and is a parasitic witch, I hope they trashed that as successfully as they messed up our Friday night :-) The pile of rubbish left by her New Year guests is still lying on the roadside.
Unfortunately it gets more complicated Gene, our deeds have it down as an "unclassified highway not maintained at public expense" and we have letters from the council dating from the 1950's and 1980's confirming it is an unadopted public right of way, yet in recent years it was apparently added to the highways register and definitive map as an adopted class 3 highway, but the council can't explain when or how this happened. My feeling is the local councillor was somehow involved as his cousin from London owned a holiday cottage just down the lane.
Your holiday home owning neighbour sounds as delightful as ours, and they attract a similar calibre of clientele....
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HiAlan,
There are places where parking with wheels on the footpath is allowed ... the signs say so ... but they change sides alternate days.
I disagree with anybody having rights over other road users. It leads to the believe that they are invincible.
My mate remonstrated with a pedestrian with an apparent death wish
"You are the one with the murderous weapon"
Was it only last year that a lady cyclist appeared from behind a high fence, crossed the pavement at about 15- 20mph ... and sat on the front bumper of my Freelander. She apologised! I was about to stop on the dotted white line, so was scarcely moving.My neighbours say they have had similar experiences on the same corner. I suggested to my Councillor that railings would help.
602
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.... and there's your problem - no insurance, no responsibility. Near impossible to claim for damage caused.
:shakeinghead